caulfield12

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 08:08 AM) ML Rank - 21 in 2006. So what does this mean? Shouldn't total bases mean more than doubles? Why are we looking at doubles in order to assess this team? The Sox were still ahead of the great double producing Twins and only 3 behind the other great double producing Tigers. Doesn't this have a lot to do with your home ballpark as well? There are a lot of things that can affect doubles. I think total bases is a better gauge. Where do they rank in that category? I know they must be in last this year because they suck in every possible hitting category - but how about over the last couple of years? 1 TEX 357 2 CLE 351 3 TOR 348 4 KCR 335 5 ARI 331 6 BOS 327 7 NYY 327 8 COL 325 9 NYM 323 10 WSN 322 11 ATL 312 12 LAA 309 13 FLA 309 14 LAD 307 15 MIL 301 16 SDP 298 17 SFG 297 18 DET 294 19 PHI 294 20 STL 292 21 CHW 291 22 CIN 291 23 BAL 288 24 MIN 275 25 HOU 275 26 CHC 271 27 TBD 267 28 OAK 266 29 SEA 266 It doesn't mean much, besides the fact that doubles in many parks turn into homers at Comiskey and that a majority of our hitters are (or have morphed into) homer-oriented sluggers, even Uribe and Iguchi (until this last hot streak).

QUOTE(GreatScott82 @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 05:43 PM) Saying that KW is not going to trade his veterans for prospects, and saying that KW seems to be not giving up on the 2007 season just yet, I would definitley go after a guy like Weathers as Airscott said or even Isringhausen from St. Louis. The Cards completely suck and are out of it and Isring is having another good year for them and he is heading into free agency. He would be a great setup man for Jenks. Our outfield situation still bugs the hell out of me. As much as I love Owens out there, a veteran player who can hit for average would be a great asset. Some names that come to mind are Adam Dunn and Aaron Rowand (I know i know...) Personally I would much rather get younger and trade guys like Contreras and Crede for prospects and let Fields and Gonzales get a chance to develope for next year. But KW will not go that route. So that is why i even brought up Aaron Rowand. Dunn is not a high average hitter, and is Rob Deer/Joe Borchard with a somewhat higher BA. Gonzalez is not a true prospect in any way, shape or form. We'd be much better off with Uribe, Ozuna or even Cintron at 2B than Getz or Gonzalez. If we want Getz, we might as well bring back Aaron Miles and give him the job. QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 08:01 AM) Its not about the bad contracts, name impact players that Kenny has brought through the farm system. Our drafts have been terrible, our international scouting a joke. We are in a division where Detroit has loaded their pitching form their farm system with Bonderman, Verlander, Zumaya, Miller and added pieces around them. The Twins continue to find and trade for minor league talent - Santana, Liriano, Slowey and have had some great drafts getting Mauer, Garza and Morneau. The bottom line is you cant stay competitive over the long term by building teams through free agency, the Cubs and Yankees are the poster children for this, and the Dodgers have been until now. And as far as being competitive for the last 15 years it depends on your definition: 2006 90-72 .556 2005 99-63 .611 2004 83-79 .512 2003 86-76 .531 2002 81-81 .500 2001 83-79 .512 2000 95-67 .586 1999 75-86 .466 1998 80-82 .493 1997 80-81 .497 Looking at those numbers it appears to me we have only been competitive 4 of the last 10 years Well, on the other hand, look how long the Tigers had to be horrific to get those draft picks which ended up as Miller and Verlander. OTOH, they had to be smarter than the Royals to take the "right" pitchers, and the jury's still out on Miller, and we'll see if Zumaya manages not to end up like Rocker, Wohlers or Farnsworth. If you go back 15 years, you have the 1993/94 White Sox to include as well, so that's 6 of the last 14 years. Look at it this way, the Brewers haven't even been in the playoffs since 1982.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 07:43 AM) The Sox are last in doubles in the majors by an astonishing margin of 19. 30th in OBP, 29th in SLG PCT, for what's supposed to be a "slugging" team. QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 07:51 AM) Who are these bunch of wanna be sluggers who cannot put the ball in play? Who is in this group. Please explain. Thank you. I bet you will mention a lot - if not all - of the same players that won the World Series in 2005 but are failing to produce now. Just a hunch. And that is KW's fault. Yep - your right. That hurts - where do they rank last year and the year before with almost the exact same cast members? 2006, 9th (291 doubles) 2005, 14th (253 doubles, last by six) AL Team Ranks

I was listening to a conversation between our local (KC) sports talk host and Jayson Stark yesterday, talking about Piniella, along with the "interesting" Sheffield revelations (Stark admitted he hasn't talked to Sheffield for years after Gary disagreed with one of his columns when he was with the Dodgers). At any rate, he (Stark) basically argued that Piniella was "disengaging" from this current team, because he had been privately telling friends in the game that the pieces just didn't fit together in Chicago, that while there was the potential certainly, he didn't have "his type of team" and there wasn't much that could be done about it. Of course, now that rumors are flying he's lost the clubhouse, he's probably going to tighten the reigns a little bit, but Piniella has done a lot of player blaming over there...his "bring in some damn players who can play the game" and constant swipes at them in the press the past two weeks are not helping either. If you were Ozzie and had to choose between Bukvich, Logan, Prinz and Dewon Day to stay in a game, I bet you'd pretty much throw your hands up in frustration too. This is definitely not Ozzie's type of team, and I'm willing to give him a year or two with a White Sox team with a different composition...faster, younger, more fundamentally sound players. I think these "homer or bust/push-pull" teams are more a creation of KW and this annoying theory that White Sox fans have always preferred home runs and .500 teams to "small ball" and playoff contenders...or maybe, it's the idea that if the majority of teams are going to be "average," it's best to entertain them with offense instead of defense? At any rate, I think Ozzie knows the writing is on the wall with this team (the current version) and he is disengaging a little bit, which coincides with our second half slide and first half fizzle this year. And I think the whole Mariotti flap really changed him too, for the worse.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 05:21 AM) Kw isn't going to be a seller yet. Though he might add a piece sooner rather than later to help improve the team. If the sox are ten games back around the all star break, then a few guys could be moved out. IMO, it's too early to say the team is done. Sure they look horrible. But the sox are one hot streak away from righting the ship. For all the grief the sox got from the White Flag trade, when they gave up in July, how much flak would people around here give them for giving up a month and half earlier than that? Unless he can go out and get the equivalent of another Garcia deal, except this time for a position prospect instead, it's in our best interests to wait for the leverage of the market to start working in our favor. It would have been nice if Buehrle had shut out the Yankees, we might have been able to get Melky Cabrera from them for Mark...I think KW has to realize that waiting for draft picks and keeping his job from now through 2010 don't exactly go together, due to the dearth of prospects in the system now, especially prospects who will be ready in 09 or 10. Aaron Cunningham MIGHT be another Rowand/Kotsay/Byrnes and not a Jeremy Reed, but he's probably never going to be an All-Star. The only bright side is that pitching possibilities are there, if they can keep Buehrle or trade the right pitching prospects for players who can help us at...well, almost any position except for 1B, DH and possibly a High A/AA catching prospect would be nice for insurance in case Hall and AJ both look old next year.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 02:43 PM) I'm not too high on Fields MiLB numbers. The talent in the International League is bad as hell and he plays in a bandbox. I just look at his swing, his football history, all of that and I see nothing less than another White Sox bust. Here's what I don't get. You've flipped on trading McCarthy mid-season before (last year, when you jumped on him for Soriano), and this is your second flip, so far as I can tell, because last year you were talking about how overrated Fields was and how we should've traded him then while his value was high. Fields has a pretty high ceiling. I doubt he ever touches it. I'm sure Kenny has said that a player sucks before. And I know Kenny has fallen in love with players that he thought would be "studs" or "all-stars" before. See: Adkins, Gavin Floyd. Oh, and I'm not exactly in favor of bringing in Lowell at all. I was just raising the idea. Or Willie Harris. Or D'Angelo Jimenez. Or Vazquez. Or Cintron.

Ryan Braun now 14 for 45, 3 HR, 8 RBI, .311 AVG There's a real 3B prospect. The Brewers might be the most talented young team in baseball, position prospect wise...along w/ the D-Rays, D-Backs, Angels and a couple of others. Farnsworth always good to light a rally for us, even this year?

QUOTE(thedoctor @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 09:32 PM) i'm not arguing that changes don't need to be made. i just think people can get carried away sometimes. and i also don't think the yankees have continually produced solid big league players. The last 10 years, yes, before, it was Hensley Meulens and Kevin Maas, etc. Rivera Bernie Williams Matsui Irabu (bust) Contreras Cano Jeter Posada Pettitte Wang Melky Cabrera Soriano Ruben Rivera Brien Taylor Drew Henson Phillip Hughes Jose Tabata You can put that list up against almost any team in baseball.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 09:27 PM) Hearing all of these failed prospects is making me more pissed than the game itself. Don't forget Sirotka, Baldwin, Chris Snopek, Kenny Williams, Jimmy Hurst, John Snyder, Jim Parque, Aaron Myette, Kevin Beirne, Jesus Pena, Eddie Pearson, Kurt Brown, Ruffcorn, Christman, Mark Johnson, etc.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 09:21 PM) I hope you aren't implying we have a Liriano, Punto, Barlett, and awesome bullpen to save us. Who the hell had that list as a bunch of top prospects other than Malone, Honel (and both of them were hurt), and to a lesser extent Rauch and Fogg? Don't play revisionist history. Rauch was the Minor League Player of the Year and a Top 10 in all of baseball prospect. Jeremy Reed also was Minor Leaguer of the Year I think, although clearly not the same level of prospect. Ginter was close to a first rounder or supplemental (also on the Olympic Team), Wright was a first rounder...Barcelo was at Top 100 prospect too. Same wtih Malone. Now if you start bringing up Wyatt Allen, Brian West and Rob Purvis as examples, I might agree. EDIT: KW Looking Like A Fool Time, running for one hour plus tonight.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 09:20 PM) I hope you aren't implying we have a Liriano, Punto, Barlett, and awesome bullpen to save us. No, but I've been hearing about the Twins and Astros ever since I started posting fire sale threads over a month ago.

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 09:16 PM) Honestly, you need to fire the pitching coaches as well. We have so many stud pitching prospects the last decade who have done NOTHING. Its an entire organization thing, they all need to be changed. We have produced by ourselves five solid big leaguers basically in a decade: Buehrle, Maggs, C-Lee, Aaron and Crede. That's it, in TEN years. That is inexcusable. Well, if McCarthy and Young make it, things look a little different. Biddle, Fogg and Kip Wells have had decent careers, and Majewski, Eyre, Guerrier, Francisco, Rauch, etc., have become decent relievers. You also have to add Durham and Sirotka to the list.

That looks like a liner in the box score!

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 09:13 PM) If we are 10 or more out, and Kenny decides to go for it, instead of reloading for next year he needs to go then. I am all for going for it. But if you are 10 or more out, and you have a bunch of pending FAs that are on an older team. Its time to move on. You get a crapload of talent. You fire every single hitting instructor in the minors and the one up here, and you reload. this is nearly the same exact part of the year last year (first week of June) where Liriano was just beginning to start, Morneau was on the verge of going down, Batista had been released for Punto, Bartlett was up, the Twins were 8 games under .500 and 12 games behind the Tigers

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 09:10 PM) Someone yelled something that was caught on camera. As Buckavic comes off the field, a "Say Hi to MacDougal next week" Another ex-Royals' reliever bites the dust. The funny thing is, Riske might be the best of all three, and we let him go to the Royals, lol. Hey, Logan can even get righthanded batters out...what do you know?

Logan's our 3rd best bullpen member and 3 months ago, a lot of people were of the opinion he might never pitch for the Sox again. That's how bad things have gotten.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 09:05 PM) Is this going to be about our 5th game in the last few weeks that went from close in the 5th inning to a blowout by the 7th? It was more heartbreaking last year when you always believed (until August) that they could come back from every lead, usually coming up one or two runs short but making it exciting. Well, I guess anything is better than this, I'll take those Twins and Astros comeback games in a heartbeat. EDIT: Bukvich has the same exact stuff as BILLY KOCH, same results too

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 09:05 PM) Cause KW is ignorant to the fact that these guys are old and suck. Seriously, Crede is done in sox uni, Juan just is too incosistent and we need a new SS next year. We don't have a LF or CF, right now. Our RF is getting old and losing bat speed quickily. Our Catcher is homerun or nothing. Paulie, god bless what he has done for this organization, but is just so frustrating right now because he is basically a 0 tool player at the moment. No average, no power, clearly no speed, not great D because of his range and an average arm. But we have another 92-94 MPH RH reliever. YAY! You've got mail. YAY!

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 08:54 PM) Seriously, I think we blow leads and play more inept offense for Mark than it seems any other team does for one of their starters. Is it just me or do we just die when Mark pitches? We haven't helped Jon Danks out much this year either.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 08:48 PM) Playing a guy with a hurt arm at 3rd is on the top 100 stupid plays of the year. So you really want Mackowiak over there? Actually, it might be better to play Uribe at 3B and Cintron at SS, as far as I'm concerned. Dye took just one little extra hop or he would have had him.

Which reliever gets the honor of blowing the doors wide open? Day? Logan? Prinz? Bukvich?

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 08:44 PM) I beg to differ, that wasn't a bad pitch, just a great job of hitting by one of the best the past decade. Let's not make Damon into a HOF player. He's a very solid major leaguer, but the fact he played for Boston and NY made him seem "better" than reality...

Cintron's lack of arm strength is killing us on that play. Goodbye, lead...hello, bullpen disaster.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 08:40 PM) Classic Walkerball by Dye. Hips fly open, about a week early* swing, roll over to 3rd on the ground. That is textbook Greg Walker teaching at work. What do you do when you replace Walker and they're still hitting the same way, because that's what they are, or they're just losing it? Is this going to be 7 or 8 games in a row not getting his 500th?

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 08:15 PM) How exactly did Dye git to third from first on a grounder to the shortstop? A-Rod came all the way across to SS on a grounder between them, and they were playing AJ to pull on the infield already. The ball went to SS, and A-Rod was too slow getting back to bag, pitcher and catcher couldn't make it over there in time either.