caulfield12

Impossible to judge Griffey because he was very much NOT healthy last year. In fact, he probably won't ever be the same again. You can look at Swisher, but Swisher never used Walker as a hitting coach. Crede, it's hard to say because of his back problems. Cabrera and Ryan Sweeney are both struggling mightily in Oakland. C. Carter and Aaron Cunningham never spent much time with Walker. Jeremy Reed, same thing. Chris Young has had the very same problems in Arizona he had in our minor league system. Rowand had a very good 2004 season...he hasn't been a consistent hitter from season to season...and then it's very difficult to compare numbers put up in the NL versus the AL, or put up on non-contending teams. Miguel Olivo has basically been the same hitter his entire career. He struggled so much in Seattle (after leaving Walker), they basically gave up on him. Joe Borchard never did anything after we traded him for Thornton. Carl Everett's career faded completely in 2006. For instance, Jon Rauch, Kip Wells, Rocky Biddle (as a Montreal closer), Josh Fogg and many others would not have had the same success in Chicago they had elsewhere, for a number of reasons.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 18, 2009 -> 09:40 PM) Don't know if I had a typo, but the closer. The reason I asked is because Thornton himself volunteered to go back to starting when we acquired him for Borchard. I know there was one other time when the question was raised. If Thornton failed as a closer, it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to give it one last shot to make him a starter. Of course, he's already 31 or 32 and the likelihood of picking up 2nd and 3rd pitches that are consistent and effective at this point are not great. Thornton's fastball is too flat and his slider isn't reliable...but I think the odds of getting something out of Thornton as a starter are still higher than McCulloch or Broadway ever being consistent winners in the rotation. We have Poreda, Richard, Thornton and Santos Rodriguez that are all lefties who can throw 92-98 with marginal offspeed stuff. If just one of those guys could break through and be successful (#3 starter or above), that would be a great help to the rotation. Richard and Colon have both had successful starts this year throwing 85% fastballs. It's just very difficult to do on a consistent basis against good hitting teams, but Clayton has been effective against TB, NY and TOR in his short career, so the ability is there. It's just repeating and building upon that success that is the biggest question mark.

QUOTE (OilCan @ May 18, 2009 -> 11:50 PM) Well, if history has told us anything in the last two years.....if KW couldn't buy a CF, what makes anyone think he could buy any good/great FA? KW seems to overpay middle relievers and unknown quantities based of potential (Ramirez, Viciendo), and is dearly paying for piss-poor drafts before 2008's. He did mortgage the minors for the 2005 trophy...fine. Now fix this, KW. It's been 4 years. And counting... It's too early to judge the Viciedo signing, at least until the middle of the 2010 season. He has picked it up a lot in May, and has been a run-producing machine despite struggling quite a bit. That's the main thing that they're looking at with him, run production (along with strikeouts/pitch selection and where he fits in defensively). Ramirez, if he NEVER does a thing for the White Sox in the rest of his career, was a relative bargain, because he was vastly underpaid last season. His four year contract is pretty close to what we paid Juan Uribe for the 2008 season alone. If they sent him to AAA and he never played again for the White Sox, it would still have been a decent signing because of season he had for us.

QUOTE (TheBigHurt @ May 18, 2009 -> 11:39 PM) I really want a legit leadoff as well, but really? The other problem with trading for Morales is we're back to overloading with 1B/DH types. We still have to find places for Viciedo, Brandon Allen and Tyler Flowers (if he can't catch, they will want his bat in the line-up somewhere). If we want to go in the direction of speed/athleticism, maybe Shelby factors in as well at DH since his defense isn't up to par with Jordan Danks. It all depends on what they would do with the roughly $15-20 million they would save by dealing Konerko. If they invested it in the draft, signing international FA's or the starting rotation, it would be fine. Certainly carving away all the pieces from the 2005 team won't be popular moves. We don't even know how happy Buehrle would be hanging around long-term for 2-3 years of rebuilding, or if he is serious about retiring roughly 2-3 seasons from now.

QUOTE (heirdog @ May 18, 2009 -> 10:33 PM) This isn't the NBA or NFL, you can't trade draft picks in MLB. Whatever we do, 80% of our focus and concentration in terms of making trades should be on either starting pitching or draft picks. If we hold on to Octavio Dotel for this season instead of trading him and offered him arbitration, where we would be limited to cutting his salary 20%, we would be able to get (unless they revamp the rules next offseason) Type A compensation for Dotel, in all likelihood. If they were to trade a package of salary for Chone Figgins, for example (since their salaries are fairly similar), same thing. So in the process of going on and trading a Dotel (or for a Figgins), we have to decide 1) whether getting an immediate player back, like Jon Adkins for Ray Durham is worth it, 2) whether we can afford to offer arbitration, certainly we won't with Dye or Thome, 3) whether the Type A/B compensation will continue to exist in its present form through the new CBA in 2011. There was talk of changing it this offseason when Juan Cruz, Cabrera, Varitek and many others were struggling to find homes. If we're going to use the draft picks on pitchers like Poreda or Porcello, then by all means, go for it. If we're in non-spending mode, then we won't want the picks. Up to KW and JR. As I mentioned earlier, the likelihood of being handed another Danks, Floyd or Bailey at the trade deadline this summer is infinitesimal.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ May 18, 2009 -> 03:35 PM) This might be a bit too early and I'd be the first to admit injuries have played a large part in this season and I'm not at all saying it would be impossible for the Sox to go out and win the division, afterall, I felt a healthy Sox team might have beaten the Rays and advanced to the World Series. However, this club, as it is currently constructed doesn't do it for me. We have a much worse rotation, a similar pen (which is a good thing), and a much worse lineup. CF/SS/2B/3B are all worse this season as opposed to last season. In addition, Dye is not playing as good as he was last year and Thome currently isn't (although compared to last year this time, Thome had poor numbers than too) as well. Hell, Konerko is pretty much the only go doing a better job and I won't throw Quentin into this mess either because he has had injuries to deal with but he's clearly not done as good of a job. So the lineup is much worse and defensively it is awful and the rotation is significantly worse (even though 3/5th's of it is the same) because two guys are having some growing pains (Danks/Floyd). As far as I'm concerned, this means now is a good time to try something new. It might still be a week or two too early, but we'll know everything we need to know about the Sox within the next 2 weeks, imo. We'll see if they are potentially a contender and if they aren't, by June 1st Kenny needs to have his selling hat on cause it would be time to make some wholesale changes to the current club with the intent of putting the club in a position to contend next season (cause we can't go 4 years without contending, it would be stupid in this economy, unless we want to see a 30M payroll for a long long time). So who are the locks to go: Dye/Thome/Dotel/Colon - Three of the four are on expiring contracts and the other has been an above average reliever with a bit of a high contract, but nothing that would prevent a contending team from taking it on. I'd also be hard pressed for the Sox to receive Type A compensation for any of these players as it would be far to risky to offer Dye or Thome arbitration and in the case of Colon I would be stunned if he'd ever even qualify for Type B compensation so again, not worth it. This means the likely value on the trade would most likely be less than A level prospects. However, it would not be out of the question to get a B level prospect plus something for Dye and Thome and maybe a former big leaguer whose struggled or hasn't turned the corner for a Dotel/Colon all while clearing off a lot of salary. Over 30 million to be precise. Who steps in? Brandon Allen would be an immediate option to step in and replace Thome's AB's to the point that the Sox could gauge the type of prospect that he is and make an decision or at least educated guess as whether he's part of the future plans. In the outfield, its pretty clear that the Sox don't have any bats ready to make an immediate impact, so you'd have to think one of the guys they acquire in a trade would be an outfielder that would step in with Brian Anderson getting the bulk of the time in CF (a last ditch effort of sorts to see if he could make it). Shelby/Gartrell/Danks all wait in the wings with Danks having the most upside, but it would be unrealistic to have much expectations for them to fill into the lineup. The Sox could eventually decide they'll stick with Fields and use Viciedo a bit (as he might prove ready at a later date). In the pen, I'd personally be tempted to bring Poreda up and throw him into the pen. Let Coop work on his secondary stuff with a plan of eventually converting him to the rotation, but letting him get comfortable in Chicago first. This probably wouldn't be the White Sox plan though as they seem adamant about giving him a shot as a starter and that probably means more time in the minors (and I don't blame them if they go that route). The biggest question is probably who steps in for Colon. You could again point to Poreda, but I'd pass on that (see above). Than there is Marquez, currently hurt, Egbert, Broadway and a whole lot of blah names. Again, with Richard already up, Broadway is sadly the best current option (Hudson/Carter are the best starting prospects the org has and they are at least a ways off and I wouldn't project either as being elite prospects as of this date...good ones sure, but lots of time for things to go wrong). But I'd like to think the Sox could find a quality guy to plug in here via the trade as well and of course there is always Jose Contreras as a stop-gap until a prospect is ready (and ideally, Contreras comes up, does decent enough and the Sox ship him out with a bit of cash in a purely salary savings deal). Veteran Locks to Stay: Buehrle is too valuable and you just play it carefully with him. I want to retool, not reload so he stays as he is still a valuable asset the next few years and a face of the franchise. Konerko is a guy I would personally listen to regarding trades and if you were able to get good value, you make a move, but in this market I dont' think teams would be as willing to give up enough to make it worthwhile for the Sox and his stable presence would be worthwhile. Plus, he's a face and you need to keep a few of those to stay cool with the fans. And with Viciedo and Allen both around, it could get really tempting to move Paulie knowing that you plan on an ideal situation of both of them panning out and covering 1B/DH for the next 10 years (and if not, bats like Paulies are easily acquirable, imo). Linebrink I don't think you get a blow you away offer for Scott and you still need guys to get things to your closer. Linebrink should also be valuable for another year or two and will eventually be the type of guy that you should get Type A or at least B compensation for (if all goes well). So I don't see a major reason to move him (a team blows us away, sure, but it won't happen). Toughest Decision - Bobby Jenks Jenks is a big time asset and is easily one of the upper echelon closers in baseball. He's still young so he should be a very viable option during your retooling face and will still give you the ability to close out games. Plus at the current rate he's still cheap so there isn't a major reason to move him. However, he could also be the guy that gets you two A prospects. I think he's the guy that you quietly make available, listen to offers, and if the right offer comes along (maybe 25-30% chance) you make the deal. Say a team in need of a closer or stronger pen calls up and offers there two top prospects (at least one being a potential high impact one) and potentially more, you make that deal and move Thornton into the rotation. The bigger beauty of this is you have Thornton signed to a solid deal and have Poreda able to jump in and learn as Thorty's replacement and potentially our future closer. Oh and in time you'll also open up spots for the Links/Omogrosso's of the world to get there chances. In the off-season you evaluate the parts you like, trade some pieces that don't fit to acquire better fits, and use 30M or so on FA pieces (when all is said and ton, the Sox would still cut payroll, but be able to buy a lot in FA to clean up the pen, find a starter and maybe find an impact bat and leadoff hitter). You want to make Thornton the closer or make him a starter?

At least one of Omogrosso, Santeliz, Link and J. Nunez can fill one of the holes in the bullpen...late this year, or going into 2010. We can be pretty confident about that. Whatever we do, 80% of our focus and concentration in terms of making trades should be on either starting pitching or draft picks. And they absolutely have to find out if Anderson, Fields, Ramirez and Getz are everyday players or move on. Playing Wilson Betemit over Fields at 3B is going to be a temptation, or Pods over Anderson, but neither one of those guys are going to be part of the long-range plans. In fact, the trickiest part might be getting enough AB's for those four, AND Nix, and still attempting to contend. There's absolutely no reason to promote the AA players to the big leagues. If they could show the Barons games, though, instead of the major league team (as an alternative), there would be something to feel positive about in terms of the future. In 2007, there was absolutely nothing to be optimistic about. But that team kept fans waiting another 3-4 weeks before totally nosediving.

If the Brewers just made an incredible offer for Nix, you'd be irresponsible not to listen. But it's not likely, and the reality is Betemit, with the emergence of Nix (who has made himself into Juan Uribe from last year, minus the $4.5 million contract) is expendable. However, the Brewers won't take Wilson to play 2B, unfortunately. The likelihood of getting potential 1-3 starters (unless they're at the A-level or below) out of any possible trades is very, very low, unless it's a trade of Jenks.

We need to wait until we get through the next homestand, at least. If we play .500 or less against the NL teams, it's history for 2009. With Weeks going down, Nix would be perfect for the Brewers. Of course, they had a shot at him when he was released by the Rockies, but he's really looking much better than in 2008, and he's proven he has a certain amount of versatility to play SS now and even a little on the corners. The problem is being 100% sure that Nix wouldn't be a better long-term answer than Getz. Getz came up through our system and he's left-handed, and Nix only has a .261 minor league batting average, but he looks pretty good so far and definitely has a better swing than Getz for now. Lillibridge, forget it. They might be better off with Eider Torres. The only relievers that are marketable are Jenks and Dotel, because we really have to hold on to Thornton and let him try closing (if Jenks were to be traded). Thornton probably wouldn't have the save conversion rate, but that contract for a closer would be a huge bargain when every dollar counts. Linebrink's the least likely to go anywhere because of his contract, age and wear-and-tear over this decade. And we have to keep at least two experienced relievers or we'll be in the same position we were heading into the offseason before the 2008 season.

Unfortunately, playing Nix in LF and Pods in centerfield (instead of Anderson) has equalled our offensive output in runs we've given up. They need to circle the wagons.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ May 18, 2009 -> 02:14 PM) Someone want to give me the summary of what happened on Rios's triple? Pods made a valiant effort, dove for the ball, wasn't able to block/trap it and went past him...Nix had to hustle behind him or it would have been an inside-the-park homer. Pretty sure Anderson would have had it, but who knows.

One thing is for certain. They're going to have to assign significant fines to pitchers for letting runners steal bases without even looking at them once. It just puts too much pressure on the pitchers to make perfect pitches...Dotel lucked out once, but not twice (having Anderson in CF would have made the obvious difference there).

Delay for Anderson?: Even before outfielder Brian Anderson went 0-for-3 with two strikeouts in the first game of a doubleheader Friday night, Guillen intimated that Anderson might not rejoin the Sox as soon as Anderson thinks. "The plan right now is we're going to play four games here," Guillen said. "Before we leave Toronto he might be here, but he has to play a couple more games, see how he feels. We'll take it from there." Anderson was 2-for-7 in his first two games on a rehab assignment after straining a right oblique muscle. He was the designated hitter for Game 2 of the doubleheader. (3 for 3 in nightcap, so 5/12 in 3 rehab games) www.chicagotribune.com/sports Yay! More of Pods, AJ, Thome and Getz against LHP. Lovely. It just keeps getting better and better. Lillibridge has had about 10X the shelf life of Wise and Owens by now.

QUOTE (qwerty @ May 16, 2009 -> 12:58 AM) One of the most ignorant things i have seen here in a long time. But i expected nothing else other than a response of this ilk. I admire your ability for being the most predictable person on the planet and not even being able to realize it. Quite hard to be that naive. Is the world still flat? I think some ''geek/s'' along the way realized that it in fact is not. What a moron to try and benefit society. We should have hung that buffoon. Sign up? You are right and I am wrong. I defer to you. Aaron Rowand is a golden god. I guess I just missed the memo inducting him into the Hall of Fame or even according him a Gold Glove.

QUOTE (BearSox @ May 16, 2009 -> 01:47 AM) Harper isn't a senior until 2011. I don't think we want to lose in 2010, too, just to get Harper.

Andruw Jones WAS a good outfielder before he gained about 50 pounds. I could care less what UZR or Zone Rating or any of that stuff says. It's one tool to use, but it's probably 33% accurate at best. I've had Major League Baseball Extra Innings package for most of that time and I've watched 60-120 Twins games every season when Hunter was in his prime. I'll rely on what I've watched over some stat geek who created a stat largely so he could get a job for a major league baseball team because he wasn't a good enough player probably to even get to the minor leagues. I'll let others decide...who here thinks that Aaron Rowand was a better defensive CFer than Torii Hunter from 2002-2004? This should be interesting. Don't be confused...UZR is a very flawed statistic for several reasons. Most importantly, it can vary DRASTICALLY from year to year. Jeter's UZR 2 years ago was -40, I believe. I'll take that cue to point out the other major flaw: the "zones" aren't as neat and specific as one might think. For example, defensivley a CF usually shifts fairly far toward left field for a righty pull hitter, in which case a line drive to right center is his "responsibility" that goes for a double or triple. Also, a CF in one year may have an abnormally large # of fly balls to his zones. Whereas a similar CF may have more line drives that will sail to one spot (the same spot that the lazy fly ball lands for CF #1) or flares that don't stay up long enough (whereas CF #1 may enjoy more air time on those balls). Parks, pitching staff, bad luck..it's all hard to factor in... Hence Jeter's defense got magically alot worse with a poor 3B, and magically alot better with A-Rod at 3B, who has more range and first step quickness than most 3B's. Another example: Check out Tejada's #'s after Chavez was no longer playing with him. Not to mention there so many other factors that one defensive stat can not account for : outs by virtue of a throw, bases saved by a player NOT taking an extra based due to reputation, etc. That being said, over the course of 3-5 years, UZR should balance out and make those things becomes less of a factor. This is why defense is so hard to quantify. Someone needs to mention this to "I Love Wang".... First of all, it is impossible to judge defense with numbers, unlike judging offense (a-la... batting average). There are TOO MANY HUMAN FACTORS involved to put numbers up against, to have a "rating" defensively. I also think there are way too many people married to the "numbers". The best defensive rating system, by far and away, is.... MY EYES! Watching things like body movements, footwork, and shoulder positioning help me determine who is capable of playing their position properly. I learned some of these defensive dynamics from a friend of mine that was scout for the Rockies. So I rely on what I see on the field, not on a calculator. And the thing that gets me, if this UZR was so great, how come the best rated players aren't walking away with the Gold Glove awards? For instance, I think 3 years ago, Jay Payton was the top rated centerfielder... Whoa!!! And now, Aaron Rowand, although I think he is a nice player, certainly to me, is not better than Jones, Hunter, Edmonds, or Logan (defensively). Are the numbers seeing something that the voters are not? Are the voters making the wrong choices on purpose? A lot of the defensive 'rankings' are also a matter of opinion. People think that Timo Perez was a good outfielder with a strong arm. I thought the opposite, just from watching him. The only thing he did well was get the ball away quickly. Bad jumps and very poor footwork. Another guy is people think is really good, but I think otherwise, is Garret Anderson. If you watch this guy enough, you will see that his jumps are below average and he NEVER throws the ball on target. This to me makes him a below average outfielder. Now, do I want him in my lineup? Sure do, his bat more than makes up for his lack of defense. But on the whole, that is what needs to be measured more than anything. Is the balance of the player worth having him in the lineup? If his bad defense is determined to be hurting the team more than his offense is helping, and the Yankees are caught in that predicament right now. Let's take a look at Bernie. If his production was, say, that of 2000 or 2001 (in that time frame +/- a year or 2) with 30 HR's and 110 RBI's, we may not be looking so hard for a centerfielder. But because Bernie's offense is no longer offsetting his defense, well, the hunt is on. from a nyfans.com thread

Great, Beckham and Allen are out there trying to help the groundscrew get the trap over the field because the umpires waited too long...I'm sure KW wil enjoying hearing how his top prospect was out there doing that with an abdominal strain!!!

Brian Anderson might actually be more valuable in terms of trade value than Josh Fields...

Restovich isn't a long-term prospect, either. Barons game heading to the top of the 10th. Jordan Danks is coming up huge/clutch in his first week of Barons play.

Twins choke away the win in NY, as Nathan blows a 4-2 lead. They always seem to struggle in NYC. Matsui and Swisher failed by Melky Cabrera came up with a two out single to score the final two runs with the bases loaded. CLE blew their huge lead at TB as well. Indians' bullpen is worse than our offense, if that's humanly possible. CLE has now officially blown a 7-0 lead. BJ Upton gets his first homer of the season, walkoff against former Sox 05 pitcher Luis Vizcaino. Good thing we didn't pick him up! The biggest problem we have is that DJ Carrasco and Broadway will go on the DL soon with how many innings they're pitching.

Great comeback...CJ missed a homer by five feet by Danks came through with a little flipper that fell in with two outs and a 3-2 count. Bringing in RHP. Need to get Tyler Flowers out of his slump soon.

QUOTE (qwerty @ May 15, 2009 -> 05:19 PM) The bold is entirely false. There is nothing clear about it. The second line is essentially as false as the first. The third line baffles me because it just is not a fact, and by the third line i mean saying rowand wasn't a better defender during ''hunter's'' prime. You do not believe in metrics and go strickly with what you see with your eyes. Others may reply to me with '' well you are only looking at metrics''. This would be the furthest from the case. I go with visual, factual, and knowledge... combined. Then, and only then, is when i base my decision. Basic fact: Since we're all White Sox fans, it's impossible to be objective about "our" players. We tend to either deify them or crucify them more than we should. They are never as good OR as bad as we think usually. I've watched almost as many Twins games as White Sox games over the last 5-6 seasons and there's no way Rowand was better than Hunter in CF from 2002-2004. The reason Aaron Rowand had to dive for so many balls is he took bad routes or misjudged a lot of balls. He's not nearly the defender Anderson is (not talking about their arms) in terms of jumps, instincts, routes, proper technique...Anderson is clearly better. I never say anything good about Brian Anderson as a hitter, but Rowand's not even in his class. Not to mention that I don't give extra points for crashing into wallks or playing so recklessly that he ends up hurting his team by having to go onto the disabled list.

QUOTE (Reddy @ May 15, 2009 -> 06:46 PM) this is close to one of the most ridiculous posts i've ever read. Obviously I was being sarcastic. Sorry, should have put it in teal. Rongey said on the postgame show that Walker's basic premise was that the mechanical changes in the hitters happened during the offseason and that it was VERY VERY difficult to make any adjustments with the hitters during the course of the season. He cited the examples of Thome and Konerko last year...that Walker knew what was wrong with their swings, hands, balance, stride, etc., but that it was a year-long battle to get them both out of bad mechanics. Hawk's favorite phrase, "muscle memory," also comes to mind. Essentially, the argument was that Tiger Woods can watch someone with a horrible gold swing and tell him points A, B, C of what is wrong with the swing mechanics, but that it's very hard to correct them, because it's almost like starting over from scratch and totally building up your swing from ZERO, deconstructing a swing. For instance, you watch Alexei and Konerko tonight, they had swings (homer and single to RF) where they had almost no extra hand movement or hitch in their swings. Simple to see and diagnose, hard to "fine tune" during the season, when baseball is 90% mental and confidence.

I don't think we even need a hitting coach. We need a team psychologist more, because improving the thinking of Floyd and Contreras would help more than anything a hitting coach could do. I think you could take any of the moderators here and put them with the 2006 White Sox team and there wouldn't have been any difference in terms of offensive output...just like you could take a mod and make them coach of the Fab Five Michigan or even the UNLV teams earlier and there wouldn't be anything more than a negligible difference in the final results.

I think our best possible infield (defensively) would be Ramirez at SS, Nix at 2B and Beckham at 3B.