29thandPoplar

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 05:43 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If their Venezuelan summer league is gone, then what happens to those players developed through the academy? Instead of a VSL affiliate, where do they go -- to the Dominican Republic? I'm asking because I dont know. Wouldn't it be a disadvantage for us when other clubs have their teams within the country? Flash, here is what I have been told by people who work with the Sox, now these people are admin types, they aren't scouts but at least they work there. They keep these players in the academy (whichever one) until they determine if a work visa is in order. If you look at the Bristol roster I believe you will see a SS, Luna. Not positive. Anyways he was one who got a work visa to come to the States. That is what these kids strive for. Several are handed out yearly but its not just anyone. As you can imagine getting those visas is a political manuever and Venezuala has some strange politics. As far as teams having an advantage in Venezuela due to having a summer league team, quite possibly yes but its a good question. Again, you have been here a long time, use your pull on this site, write a letter to the proper guy at the White Sox asking for an interview for SoxTalk. The White Sox like to reach out to their fans. That said, if you dont want to do it, just say so and if I can carve out the time I will do it. Personally I think its best to get these answers from the people who know vs. me or someone else here who knows bits and pieces 2nd hand.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 4, 2007 -> 11:01 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Good grief, you do know this was Farmer who was saying it's interesting that he gave him the watch now? I guess I'll stop posting what people are actually saying, and I'll sit back and read the daily pissing contests that are going on now about who's a better fan, etc. Well then post it was Farmer. You didn't. What's the difference, Farmer yaps so much anyways even he doesn't know what he's spouting half the time. I do agree though that it if posting less made you happier, please do it.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 09:14 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> FWIW, Buehrle finally gave AJP the watch he owed him from the no-hitter. The fact he gave it to him now would make it seem like he might be leaving soon. My gosh, please let it stop. What did the tarot cards say this morning, how about Buehrle's horoscope, what about the tea leaves or maybe the magic 8 ball? Or maybe the butler did it in the study with the pipewrench. This is not a game of Clue. It's not as if a watch can't be deliverd by FedEx.

They still own and operate a baseball academy there and have a couple of scouts who go there frequently. Please don't take everything Baseball America says as the be all end all. If you notice, Kline uses terms like "I've heard" and "I think" etc. Hardly set in stone facts. Again, take a look at Bristol's roster, there are about a dozen or more guys the White Sox have signed out of the Dominican and Venezuela. Whether it's the right ones or not is another story. QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 03:34 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> It's almost as if the organization devises new ways to limit channels for acquiring talent. Well, good luck competing with the Mets and the four million dollars spent updating their Dominican Republic baseball academy. Or working around the Dodgers, Anaheim, Yankees. I would suggest you arrange for an interview with the White Sox scouting personnel, maybe Alan Regier, so you can get the whole story. You are going on half baked info here and I notice you are the leader of the band on this topic. We are talking, in general, about signing 16 year olds here. Guillen has suggested (strongly I may add) that they play the numbers game instead of plunking down big sums of $ for one or two guys. Seriously, and not picking on you, but lets get the whole story here because some of the things assumed on this topic are less than accurate. They sign lots of these guys, as do many teams. The visas are granted on how much potential these kids show after a year of so of playing and instruction. Not defending the White Sox here at all, they can and should do better but to say they are shutting off an avenue of talent is completely wrong.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 3, 2007 -> 02:22 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Is it bad that I agree with every thing Marrioti said in his article today? It's not surprising in the least. I have been consistent, let's wait until we see what happens before we start condemning one way or the other. How about you?

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 10:09 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And the fact that he can't even be relied on to go 2 innings or in a tie game. Aren't you the one who wanted him to come in for a tie game earlier this year and blamed Guillen for not doing it? You are tough to follow. Yesterday you wanted the Sox to give Buehrle the no trade, today you say it doesn't matter, that you don't care and maybe they'll be a better team without him.

Darrin Jackson making the point on tv about how important it is to get Bedard to work out of the stretch. He is nowhere near as good out of the stretch according to DJ. Maybe this is why they put a guy in the lineup who walks a lot.

Honestly at this point let Toby Hall get his labrum reattached and see you in Tucson.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 07:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hall is a better option than Thome against Bedard. Just for the fact of how much Jim struggles with LHP and Hall's familiarity with Bedard and strong success against him. Can't disagree with you on that. Thome gets on base though, the White Sox usually end up getting, what, 5-6 hits vs. Bedard? Put Hall in for Pierzynski, he's a catcher. No wait, the Orioles have Brian Roberts and Hall can't throw. I am just saying why Guillen is doing what he's doing.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 06:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I have no idea why he keeps playing Thome every single day. Give the big man a rest....it's not like he's on fire or is good against LHP. Because he can draw walks. No one else on the team appears capable of doing it. It's Bedard, they aren't likely to get many baserunners.

QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 03:45 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> He is locking up starting pitching. He is just locking it up from the wrong end in JV and JC. I would rather he start by locking up MB and JG first. Ok cool, now I understand, it is your opinion. When you stated they refuse to lock up starting pitching, I knew that was not true which is why I responded.

QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 03:04 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> As for the press release, Kw refuses to give Buerhle a NTC. That's pretty common knowledge. So in my eyes he refuses to lock up good starting pitching. Oh you are right I forgot we did lock up the .500 pitcher in JV and the old man in JC. That's a great way to build a rotation. I forgot my bad!! I think if MB wants a full NTC he should get one period. He is taking less to stay here, he wants to be here. He is the type of guy you want to build a rotation around. Him and JG. But KW would rather build it around JV and JC!! Well to be blunt to a degree then your eyes must only see part of the story. Just because the White Sox brass refuse a total no trade clause does not mean they refuse to lock up starting pitching. One does not equal the other. They extended all of these guys before. They extended Buehrle, and Vazquez, and Garland, and Contreras. They extended each and every one of them at one point. They extended Freddy Garcia right after they traded for him as well. So I'm not seeing where Kenny Williams (or Sox brass, whichever terminology is preferred) refuses to lock up starting pitching. It just isn't true. Heck I would like them to sign Buehrle and I see both sides, I clearly understand their position on this NTC (if in fact all this chatter is reality). Personally I believe there is still a compromise to be had here. Whether it happens is another story.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 02:58 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I hope he either re-signs or gets traded tomorrow, as the arguments we're all involved in on here are going nowhere. Agree, today would be even better in fact.

QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 02:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just because KW won a World series doesn't make him a good Gm. He has won 1 year in the 7 he has been here. Sure that one has resulted in the first World series Championship in 88 years for the city, blah blah blah. I'm saying I don't believe KW is a smart GM. I don't think he is a great GM by any means. I think this Buerhle fiasco has shown that. He preaches to the fans about wanting to win and sustatin it, but yet he is gonna trade away a guy becasue he refuses to give him a NTC, after the guy gives you a huge hometown discount. And JG will be traded most likely after that. So to me he is a liar. You listen to any knowlegable baseball fan and they will tell you, you lock up good starting pitching, that's where it all starts. And he refuses to do that. Two points ... one, there's a lot more behind the scenes than just Ken Williams. He's the point guy, but many of these decisions are made by ownership. Not just Reinsdorf either, there are some pretty powerful businessmen who make their point known and have been involved for quite a long time. Two, he has shown he will lock up starting pitching. He extended Buehrle, Garland, Garcia, Contreras, and Vazquez during his tenure. He/the Sox org. has a successful history of locking up their own starting pitching.

QUOTE(michelangelosmonkey @ Jul 2, 2007 -> 02:29 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I think he's NOT patient to wait and I think I see what he's doing. Having two dominant power pitchers leads to WS wins...Pedro/Schilling, Johnson/Schilling, Clemens/Cone (twice), Cone-Wells, Brown-Fernandez, and by the way...Santana and Liriano would have won it for the Twins last year if not the injury, same with Wood-Prior. So the Sox have Buehrle...a very good lefty...Glavine-esque. And Garland another non-strikeout guy that is great on a team with good offense/defense...but there is little history of two non-strikeout pitchers leading a team to the WS. When Sox won it was Contreas that was clearly the ace...and Garcia was a strikeout guy too. If I'm KW I don't try to emulate Atlanta with the long stretch of pennants...but try to find the formula to win the next WS. Vazquez, Danks, Floyd, Gio, De Los Santos, the lefty they drafted #1...he's trying to get us in a position to have the next Clemens/Cone. If he has to use Buehrle and/or Garland to get us that true dominant ace? Let's give it a shot. Interesting way of looking at it, insightful post. Never really sat down and thought about the two power arms at the top perspective. I'm sure there are lots of exceptions but you raise an interesting point.

To me the face of the organization should be a competitive team every year, not an individual player. A good team that is playoff caliber with a chance to go all the way is way more important to me than any individual player. Too many come and go. I loved Dick Allen, loved Oscar Gamble, and many more and guess what, they left. I love Buehrle too. But if he goes, I will judge it on what they get back for him and go from there. If I am that angry at Ken Williams or Rick hahn or Jerry Reinsdorf I will send them a certified return receipt letter and express my dissatisfaction. One other point and that is, all these guys dont want to leave the White Sox. Thomas and Guillen and now Buerhle and Ventura and all these guys, they didn't or don't want to leave. What does that tell you, it tells me the White Sox treat their players really well behind the scenes. Heck even Carlton Fisk stayed here for 12-13 yrs or so. The org. must be doing something these players like because it seems players want to stay here. Not taking sides but that is a credit to the owners who apparantly hire good people. Now if they could only hire better amateur scouts!!!

I believe Williams tipped his hand with the Richar deal, he acquired a guy who can maybe step in at 2B next year. So to me that means look for any upcoming deal to bring back players who can contribute in 2008 and beyond. White Sox always look for pitching, but the OF situation is a big mess and my sense is they've had enough of Uribe. Meaning, the need for position players may well outweigh their longstanding preference to get pitching. Remember Williams has always said pitching wins. But lets examine what's going on this year, the starters haven't been bad and yet the record is dreadful. It is an eye opener for a brain trust that has focused on pitching pitching and more pitching. As you Chisoxfn have said, you have a mgr. who likes speed and defense and this team is short on both. Whatever speed they have is always injured. Therefore the only course of action is to get younger and more athletic. Maybe they can add a big bopper in LF or RF by trade this winter or grab a guy undervalued like they did with Dye a few yrs. ago. But the CF, SS needs are glaring and those are key speed and defensive positions on the ballclub. By the same token those two spots should be your offense igniters.

The Dodgers are in the thick of things, a game or so out of 1st. While I can see them parting with prospects I cannot see them parting with pitchers who are already performing well for their squad.

QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 09:01 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Does this asshole even know what he's talking about!! Last time I looked if your plan is to build a championship team, I would think locking a a solid No.1 starter would be a priority. Especially if you are signing him to a lower than market value contract, and only 4 years. I'm done with this guy. He's an arrogant and pmpous ass!! He reminds me so much of Jerry Krause it's makes me sick. The short and longterm ramifications are just to great?? Give me a f***ing break. This whole situation with Buerhle just makes me realize that our GM doesn't have a clue. That's it KW build a rotation around JC and JV, you f***ing moron!! I believe another poster raised this issue about your posts, is it possible to make the point you wish to make without all the profanity, it is a bit much.

The Baseball America writer speculates in his chat that the Venezuelan baseball people aren't thrilled with the White Sox due to last winter's situation. In and of itself it may mean nothing. Guillen's input is the White Sox should focus on quantity regarding non draftees since the odds are against many of these guys panning out. The White Sox do sign a bunch of players from Latin American countries, a glance at Bristol's roster is an indication. The trick is identifying the sure thing prospects which is the same problem facing other teams. Does anyone have a complete list of White Sox scouts and their territories? It's always in the media guide but I don't have the 2007 edition.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 07:28 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Correct, the 2011 stuff makes no sense at all. He came up in July of 2000 and hasn't been to the DL or AAA since, so July of 2010 is when 10/5 kicks in. Duh. Here is Gregor's article, it says 2011 - http://www.dailyherald.com/sports/whitesox.asp I was told it goes by years of service, not a rolling clock (days). A full credited year of major league service is 178 days. It would be worth getting clarification from an expert though, seeing as there is confusion on the matter.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 04:53 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I honestly can't believe the only hold up in this deal is a stinkin no trade clause, there has to be more to it than that. If not, there is something completely messsed up with this organization. Buehrle is a 10 and 5 guy in 2010 anyways, correct? So in other words the hold up on this freakin deal is cause Kenny wants the flexibility to trade Mark for two seasons? Why the hell would we be trading him in the first two years of a four year deal anyway? Something isn't right here, and Kenny is really starting to get on my bad side(I know it's his worst nightmare ) I really used to be a huge fan of his but not anymore. His no trade due to 10 and 5 doesn't kick in until the start of the 2011 season, it was discussed at length yesterday.

QUOTE(TitoMB345 @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 04:47 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> i cant WAIT till we face a competent team. Whoever the guy on this site who said you'd be back the very next day after saying you were "done" with this team, congrats. They were right, here you are.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 11:20 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Nope, but you have to keep talent on your team once in a while. This Buehrle situation guarantees that Garland will be gone sooner than later also. So, keep them on your team by giving them everything they want. No trade clauses have interesting ways of handcuffing what can and can't be done to a team. Things change, its best to stay flexible. As for Garland, it guarantees squat. Garland was practically guaranteed to not sign an extension, Garland was practically guaranteed to be traded etc. if you believe the media reports. Which is a lot of what this situation is, media reports. I posted on another thread to wait and see what happens in this situation before jumping to conclusions and I still believe that is good advice. QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 11:36 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> We haven't had a super high pick though in a long time. Those top picks require a good amount of money. If you don't trade Dye and Buehrle, then you're going to have 4 more sandwich picks that all would require a significant signing bonus to bring into the organization. It hasn't been an issue for years, it won't be an issue for the next draft. Another reason to stay flexible, the budget may need more $$ for the draft. You are worrying about nothing with this. Now if they start drafting Boras clients then I am worried right along with you.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jul 1, 2007 -> 11:24 AM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No what he needs to do is figure out if he is getting enough in return or if he should let it ride and take the two picks. Thats all. Thats the only question and that may take a while to figure out. Yes. He doesn't have to trade MB by Wed. Situations change, other teams may suddenly have needs to fill.