chw42

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Dec 29, 2013 -> 09:29 PM) Since I didn't have the Bears game out here of course I watched the Seahawks. I must say, this tackle on a punt return was pretty awesome... Impeccable timing.

I really want Neckbeard to win this game for Dallas. It'll drive all those Romo-hating Cowboys fans insane.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 29, 2013 -> 09:10 PM) This is year three of being one game away from playoffs. Just brutal. I know we were last year, but we were a game away from the playoffs in 2011?

What an awful year for Chicago teams not named the Blackhawks.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 29, 2013 -> 08:13 PM) I think it is worth noting that this brain trust that couldn't wait to get rid of Cutler used one of those first round picks on his heir apparent, Tim Tebow Yeah, using the Denver was willing to trade Cutler argument leads you nowhere. Because Josh McDaniels was straight up crazy.

QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 29, 2013 -> 12:07 PM) Because that last inning spanned 5 games, lmao I can probably pitch better than that guy and I throw in the 70s, holy crap.

QUOTE (G&T @ Dec 29, 2013 -> 08:06 PM) Are those people employed? McDaniels is back in New England.

QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 29, 2013 -> 07:55 PM) You know how people felt like that weird fumble play is something that just never happened with Lovie Smith at the helm? I think Jenks and I think winning is something that just never happens with Cutler around. He's become a middle of the road QB and he consistently quarterbacks middle of the road teams. He has had a variety of different circumstances that can explain that -- s***ty defense now, bad lines before, iffy supporting skill players before, changes in coordinators. If you're the Bears, though, is it crazy to think that maybe we've spent enough time, money, and energy on him? How many people have to lose their jobs because Cutler hasn't played up to expectations? Jerry Angelo, Lovie Smith, Mike Martz, Ron Turner, Mike Tice...not exactly an all-star cast, but you have to wonder at what point you quit trying to make him fit when it never seems to work out. A lot of those excuses weren't excuses though. They all had some truth to them. The offensive line, before this year, was awful. Before Marshall got here, his best receiver was Earl freaking Bennett. And how can you argue that the defense is not bad this year? The coordinators thing was an excuse IMO, but Cutler never had a complete offense with the right system around him until this year. And of course, he did improve. A 90 QB rating isn't bad by any means and I think it's the highest of his career. That being said, Josh McCown had a 110 QB rating with the same offense. Although a few of those games were against some of the worst defenses in football, it's still mighty impressive and says a lot about Cutler.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 29, 2013 -> 07:55 PM) Right, but they could take the risk of signing McCown and drafting a QB and seeing where that leads them. McCown could be less than average as per his career stats and the draft pick could fizzle out. But that's doing SOMETHING different to try and win against the best QB in the league (or at worst 2nd best). We've had what, six seasons of Cutler? And every god damn excuse has been thrown out there for why he can't win. I've had enough. If he wants a reasonable contract, 10-12 million, i'll happily bring him back. If he wants Stafford-like money in the 20 million range, which is what is expected, f*** that. He's not worth that kind of money because he doesn't give you enough wins. Welcome to 8-8, 9-7 every year. That's what Cutler and a sub-average defense gives you. At this point the offense is basically there, with or without Cutler. Why not put all that money towards a defense which is clearly not anywhere close? Considering Big Ben is making $14.5 million a year, I think it would be awfully stupid for the Bears to give Cutler anything over $14 million. And I do agree that the offense is there. Had McCown not done what he did this year, I don't think I'd be okay with letting Cutler walk.

QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 29, 2013 -> 07:50 PM) Another thing I don't see talked about: Cutler injuries. If you think McCown is no good, that means we have punted three seasons because of Cutler injuries. This one, 2011, and the infamous "knee" game against GB. This isn't a "Cutler is a p****" thing, since I think he is actually an extremely tough SOB. But he hasn't been super durable by any stretch, missing 12 entire games over the past three seasons. This doesn't include his early exit from the Houston game last year (we lost by 7, did he make us lose that game and thus the playoffs?) or the Washington and Detroit games this season. Does anyone feel like his injury history is a bit too worrisome to commit a bunch of money to him? I bet Lovie Smith is sitting somewhere feeling pretty pissed off about those injuries It's definitely something to worry about. Before the groin this year, I didn't really think of Cutler as injury prone. None of his injuries before seemed routine. He broke his hand on a tackle. He had his MCL sprained by a big hit. But that groin injury looked way too routine.

QUOTE (Jake @ Dec 29, 2013 -> 07:42 PM) I was driving across the country when that game was played, so I wasn't around either way. I have been in favor of playing Jay when he's healthy. You want as many snaps as you can to make a decision here. I'm happy to have had another look, because it has confirmed to me that Jay is a sub-$10 million QB and, in that case, Chicago is probably best suited to move on. I've been a huge Cutler supporter throughout his time here, but IMO we've seen enough. If we had an excellent defense in place, I'd probably feel differently. Since we easily need to replace half or more of the players on defense and cannot possibly afford to do so while resigning the current crew, I'm inclined to move on and try to get the most valuable thing in the NFL: a good-to-great QB on his rookie contract I don't think you guys understand what a sub-$10 million QB is. Guys who are not on their rookie contract making below $10 million this year: Alex Smith, Carson Palmer, Michael Vick, Matt Moore, Matt Cassel, Matt Hasselbeck, Kyle Orton, Chad Henne, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Kevin Kolb. Do any of you guys seriously thinking any of those QBs are definitively better than Jay Cutler? You can make a case for Alex Smith. Thinking anyone else is better is silly. Guys who made >$10 million this year that are definitely worse than Cutler: Matt Schaub, Mark Sanchez, Sam Bradford. Debatable guys who are worse than Cutler: Joe Flacco, Matt Stafford, Eli Manning. Sanchez and Bradford made only ~$1 million less this year than Cutler. Unless you can hit the jackpot with a QB in the first round, bringing Cutler back at around his current salary wouldn't be the worst thing in the world.

QUOTE (dasox24 @ Dec 29, 2013 -> 07:21 PM) To be fair, that's a cultural thing. When it's constantly preached to grab the ball any time it hits the ground (every play in every practice or game), then it gets ingrained in the players' heads to grab the ball and go. When you don't preach those things and make it a way of life, then players tend to not think about it. It's not drilled into their head. I won't blame that on Tucker, but you can be damn sure that would have been a defensive TD under Lovie. That doesn't mean I wish Lovie was still the coach or anything like that. But it's hard to argue that the outcome would have been the same under Lovie. After watching the defense during Lovie's tenure, I'm not sure how you think they wouldn't have scooped that and scored. I'm glad Lovie is gone. I'd rather watch a great offense instead of a s***ty offense and good defense. It's not the 80s anymore. However, he did good things here in Chicago, especially the turnover-hungry culture he created on defense, nobody should deny that. And there's nothing wrong with suggesting the next coach should keep that same culture.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 29, 2013 -> 07:15 PM) Jesus people. Learn to read. Here are the points i'm making: (1) Cutler might have outplayed Rogers in today's game based on stats alone, but at the end of the day one guy led his team down the field and won the game. That's who I think had the better game. It's not like Rogers sucked. (2) in thinking about the future, I don't believe Cutler is a franchise QB or the answer for the Bears, for a variety of reasons which I've spelled out. I'm not opposed to bringing him back, but it has to be at the right price because there are enough weapons for average QB's to win with IF they can also upgrade the defense. (3) the defense blows and clearly made critical errors in the game. They are much more to blame than Cutler. (4) people blaming Tucker for a stupid mistake by the defense on a fumble-TD and thinking Lovie would have stopped that from happening are stupid. Did you watch the Bears defense when Lovie was here? They'd grab every loose ball even if it was clear that it wasn't a fumble. It almost got annoying. I can say with 100% confidence that there is no way something like that, especially in the fashion it was done in (nobody on defense gave a s***), will ever happen under a Lovie Smith defense.

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Dec 29, 2013 -> 07:08 PM) Mel Tucker has to be replaced. Yeah Tucker has to go. Conte has to go. Briggs probably shouldn't be brought back if he's expecting a nice pay day. He did play a lot better in the second half, but I don't think he's worth anywhere near what he's being paid this year. This defense needs a huge turnover. Peppers will be here regardless of what happens, his cap hit is huge. Maybe you bring back Melton and Ratliff on cheap deals. Jennings should be re-signed, he's easily the best player in the secondary (not saying a lot). As for Cutler, it all depends on what he demands. If he's willing to settle for what he got paid this year, which is around $14 million, you have to consider it. But if he wants a big payday, you have to let him go, there are too many holes on this team for Cutler to make $18 million a year.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 29, 2013 -> 07:05 PM) 160 is a huge step up for this defense. Not sure what you're getting at there. I love how you're pointing to a couple of terrible defensive plays while i'm talking about a career of suck from Cutler when debating what to do with his future. The dude isn't a winner. Plain and simple. He gets good stats against s***ty teams. He sucks against good teams on average. Why do we want to pay this guy franchise QB money when he's not a franchise QB? Oh, he's got an arm. Whoopty f***ing do. He's Jeff George 2.0. 160 yards to James Stark and Eddie Lacy on one ankle. Yeah, no.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 29, 2013 -> 07:02 PM) If he's going to be paid as expected, yeah, he needs to play like a top 10 QB. He's not, and hasn't been for the time he's been a Bear. And I never put this loss, or this season, on Cutler. But at some point you have to call a spade a spade. The dude's been given a thousand excuses. At what point do you say enough is enough? And no, I didn't expect Cutler to win the game with 38 seconds. I DID expect him to be MUCH better in the 1st half with maybe the best set of weapons in the entire NFL. Multiple 3 and outs is INEXCUSABLE. You might not have said it directly, but everything you've said strongly implies you do put blame on Cutler for this game, including your last sentence. After all, you said Aaron Rodgers played a better game because he WON the game.

QUOTE (fathom @ Dec 29, 2013 -> 07:01 PM) It sure would have been nice to not waste the first timeout in the 2nd half on the Alshon play that should have been called a TD. Blind refs strike again. We got screwed over on two pretty clear plays today.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 29, 2013 -> 06:54 PM) Terrible analogy. A QB can suck for three quarters and still make the plays to win the game in the 4th. A QB of all positions in basically all of sports has the ability to affect the game the most. Cutler had a more complete game than Rogers. Ok, great (and let's forget Forte's game or Marshall's ridiculous catch). Rogers won the game when it mattered. He made the plays when it mattered. That's all that matters in my book. But continue on Cutler-apologists. It's the WR's. It's the O-line. It's the coach. It's the play calling. It's the defense. It's the blah blah blah. Bottom line, the dude can't beat the Packers. He finally had a good game against the Packers and it still wasn't enough. Dude is not a franchise QB and I'd really hate it if the Bears committed a ton of money to him given the problems with the rest of the roster. That's really all I (and Jake) are saying. If he takes a reasonable sum of money, fine, bring him back. If he's asking for the moon, give him a nice handshake on his way out. This is about people like you thinking Cutler should be run out of town simply because he didn't play like Peyton Manning or dare I say it...Aaron Rodgers. I don't think all of us want Cutler back. I sort of don't, there are better ways to spend money with this team. But to say that Cutler is somehow responsible for the defense f***ing up on a 4th and 8 is preposterous. Did you really expect Cutler to drive the Bears down the field for a TD with 38 seconds left and felt like it was his fault that he couldn't? Can Tom Brady even do that...? Stop asking for the moon. We're all disappointed that the Bears lost, but Cutler is way down the list of people I'm disappointed with.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 29, 2013 -> 06:45 PM) How can anyone say this with a straight face when one guy WON THE f***ING GAME and the other didn't? Oh, so if a pitcher gives up 9 ER and wins the game, he's obviously better than the guy who gave up 4 ER and lost? This is like a debate about pitching wins.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Dec 29, 2013 -> 06:41 PM) Pssh, no. Rodgers had one terrible pass but made play after play the entire game. The tipped interception is one of those excuse throws people give Cutler all the time. Rogers WON the Packers the game. No excuse necessary. The tipped INT was clearly a high throw. Jordy Nelson's not Brandon Marshall. Nobody said Cutler's better than Rodgers, but Cutler played a better game than Rodgers today, which is fine because Rodgers was clearly a bit rusty with some of his throws.

The defense actually stopped the run pretty effectively for most of the second half, which was extremely surprising. They played better than expected, but it was still pretty bad.

I don't think anyone can b**** about Cutler's play in this game. He wasn't great in the first half, but he played a hell of a game in the second half. He made no mistakes until that last pick, which you can't fault him for since all he could do is throw it up in that situation.

Conte you son of a b****...

You have to be s***ting me.

So close...Alshon almost had it.