Chicago White Sox

The vast majority of these examples are from a different regime during a different era and bear no credence on the org that Getz inherited. Come on my dude, using Philip Humber to justify our recent org capabilities is beyond ridiculous. You cite Lucas Giolito who was a former top 10 overall prospect who had to go outside the org to right the ship. Lopez’s stock had not fallen when they acquired him and he never really fixed him as a starter. Cease was a consensus top 100 prospect and I don’t recall anyone referring to him as a designed reliever. Honestly, almost none of these examples are a flattering endorsement of Rick Hahn and our pitching developments under him. I am one of the biggest KW fans in the world, but the game quickly passed him by when analytics started becoming ingrained in the game and his lawyer lackey who was supposed to be on the up and up on this stuff failed epically in keeping us in par with the rest of the league. I see no credible argument that the Sox were best in class at developing pitching (or even average) during the second half of Hahn’s tenure and the best, most recent example you cite is literally a dude that Getz and Bannister turned into an insanely good SP and valuable trade asset.

Again, using a 20 year sample is completely unreliable to evaluate how the org is doing today at something. Pretty much every member of the org outside of Jerry is long fucking gone from the beginning of that sample. I fully get there will be noise with shorter sample sizes, but that doesn’t change the fact that assigning credit to past leaders, processes, & outcomes is completely irrelevant to things today. Again, name me all this pitching that we developed under Hahn and explain what we he was doing so differently from other orgs that made us industry leaders. As for the data discussion, you are again missing the forest from the trees. You are taking about machine learning when these fucks couldn’t do basic statistical analysis in house and were unable align specific definitions for fairly basic (but critical) advanced metrics and how to apply them. Analysis paralysis is a thing, but utilizing bad data and applying the takeaways incorrectly is a dangerous fucking problem and has held us back for years. At the end of the day, we need to learn the basics before we have to worry about any of the problems you are highlighting.

Having data available to your hitting, pitching, & development coaches in real time is incredible valuable. Having clean data and aligned definitions on said metrics is critical for it to be used consistently and accurately. These are basic requirements to be a competent organization which we are not. We need to keep pushing to get to the cutting edge if we want to be great, but for now I just don’t want to be the worst org in all of major sports and by wide margin. These are just baby steps but 100% necessary ones. I will certainly not try to sell you that Getz’s vision will get us to promise land because I need to see some actual on-field results before I believe he’s doing anything more than addressing low hanging fruit. However, I truly believe what Getz is doing is actually legitimate and vastly different in scope than the bullshit Hahn claimed he was doing to modernize the org.

You are missing the forest from the trees here man. “Copying what others are doing” is 100% without question what we need to be doing. Will that make us a best in class organization? f*** no. Will it give us an edge over others? Definitely not. But it will quickly bring us out of the god damn Stone Age that we were stuck in under Hahn. You have to start somewhere and getting your basic foundations in place is the first step towards righting the ship long-term. Going from being completely incompetent to just below average would be a massive improvement. As for your pitching analysis, using a 20 year sample to highlight our capabilities as of late is completely flawed. 20 years ago pitching labs and biomechanics were barely a thing and have obviously grown in prominence over time. So much of the value that you are citing is likely driven by a single draft pick that was selected and developed by a different group of people using different processes (ones that were likely more up-to-date at the time). Change your sample to players added in the past 10 years and tell me where we rank. Hell, make it five and tell me where we rank. We are well fucking past the Don Cooper & Herm Schneider glory days. And let me be clear here, there is certainly a PR angle at play here. I’m not a fool who believes everything Getz says and I know there is an intrinsic motivation for him to hype up all the behind the scenes stuff. But that doesn’t change the fact that they are actually trying to modernize the org by bringing in external ideas, best practices, and people. Again, that won’t solve all our problems, but it should materially bridge the gap between us and most other orgs outside of probably the Rockies. And if we can be even be in the realm of acceptability, there is a chance even a mediocre GM can get lucky and put together a competitive team. But until the basics are in place, the current nightmare we are enduring will never end.

Having analytical data that isn’t clean and aligned up is a massive problem. Having your data not in the cloud and easily accessible is a massive problem. Not having all your groups leverage analytics as part of their decision making process because they all operate in silos is a massive problem. You say that we should address low hanging fruit…well this is a huge part of it. Let’s not undervalue all the things we were doing wrong that ultimately led us to be the worst team in baseball history.

Disagree with pretty much everything in this post. How were they good at pitching overhauls previously? Show some receipts and tangible actions that suggest they were even close to league average in this area prior to Bannister and the various foundational overhauls they have implemented since Getz took over. Did you even watch the video? One of the first things that Bannister mentions is how they had to completely revamp the R&D department because everything was broken. Data itself wasn’t clean and definitions weren’t aligned upon, it wasn’t it in the cloud and easily accessible, and it wasn’t be used throughout all groups as part of the broader decision-making process. Fixing these issues is the definition of addressing low hanging fruit and helps not only hitting, but hitting & fielding as well. Lastly, saying all these foundational improvements are just PR fluff because they haven’t immediately impacted our W-L record is silly. No doubt there is a PR angle to touting one’s horn, but fixing our foundations is the single most important thing needed to right this ship in the long-run and it’s all we should really care about at the moment other than Jerry’s reign of terror ending. But if you’re actually paying attention, you can see signs of better process baring some fruit. Again, it won’t immediately change our W-L record because we are basically starting from zero, but that doesn’t mean it’s not vitally important or actually working.

Lol…who did I attack? Me telling a poster there is a difference between awesome and sucking is somehow name calling? Is this a serious post? And no offense, you ridicule and insult posters all the time. You and West Eddy in particular have gone back and worth relentlessly, making personal attacks against one another. I’m not really sure who you are grandstanding for here. The quality of this board has taken a hit in recent years and the post I cited was a perfect example of that. That should be expected to some extent given how bad the team has been as of late, but you trying to say my post is somehow contributing towards that drop in quality is quite frankly absurd and hypocritical.

Explain how the “opinion” that a dude hitting 35% above league average sucks is rationale? Why do I have to entertain something so ridiculous? I have debated with posters on whether we should have signed in Tauchman in the first place, which is a fair conversation to have given the state of the org. But to say a guy “sucks” who by all objective measures does not suck is not a credible opinion and should not be treated as one.

Especially for a GM without a scouting background and natural ability to identify talent.

What in the world are you talking about? Who am I mocking for “daring to have an opinion”? The guy who said a dude hitting 35% above league average sucks? If that’s your example, then no, that’s an actual objective opinion to be had and should be mocked relentlessly.

Also, Rick Hahn should be thoroughly embarrassed for letting things get so far behind the times.

Some really good stuff in here.

Yup, I get that everyone is pissed off about most things White Sox and rightfully so, but it’s immensely frustrating when we can’t have any back & forth dialogue before the “everything sucks” boo birds come out. If you have zero hope or are unwilling to entertain it, then take a break and go find a better use of your time.

Yup, either you suck or you are awesome…there is no in between. What a great message board this place has become.

This may be the most embarrassing thread in Soxtalk history. Just so much unnecessary arrogance by the OP and for no particular reason.

Rosenthal mentioned that the Sox would be willing to eat money to improve a Robert return.

What in the f*** are you even arguing at this point?

Lol…you brought up his speed buddy and I simply called your post out for being incredibly dumb. Mike Tauchman’s speed has zero merit on anything long-term. He is simply a cheap vet placeholder who comes with warts (including health) but has 100% outproduced his measly $2M salary. Trying to draw any conclusions about our long-term strategy because of a cheap vet is absolutely ridiculous.

Again, why does this matter? What is the quota for speed on a team that will almost certainly suck again next year? No idea where this need for speed idea came from…

What does this have to do with his lack of speed? You are moving the goalposts here and in a fashion that hasn’t nothing to do with the point of your thread.

You’re actually arguing a guy who is currently 35% above league average as a hitter sucks?

Why does this fucking matter? Complaining about Tauchman’s speed while he’s giving us a 135 wRC+ for ~$2M is the strangest take I have seen on this board in my 20+ years here.

This is an incredibly bizarre, poorly thought out, click-baity thread. Why do we need to build around speed specifically? Why would we expect a team very early in a rebuild with few building blocks in place to have all the attributes of its ideal roster in place already? For people to say there is no strategy is just straight up wrong. On the positional side, Getz has targeted hitters who get on base and make good swing decisions in almost all his major trades and with several recent draft picks. There is really no denying this and so far that strategy has provided quick wins with guys like Vargas & Meidroth looking like solid regulars. But honestly, that is more about providing a much needed floor of average contributors (something that the previous regime consistently undervalued) and from what we’ve read and seen they understand the need for athleticism and power. B. Montgomery and Teel both fit the billing in the single biggest trade of Gets’s career and so does Bonemer in the draft. More is going to be needed here, especially in the power department, but this is basically the first year of the org’s rebuild and power & athleticism aren’t easy to come by. On the pitching side we have Bannister and it’s clear as day they have a full fledged strategy there. Identify, select, and develop premium arms in the draft to anchor your future staff since we know we can’t afford those guys in free agency (at least under Jerry) and target lesser pure stuff guys on the cheap who offer unique pitch shapes, deliveries, and/or other attributes that generate weak contact. There is now a legit pitching lab in place to aid in our pitcher’s development and we are actually seeing evidence of biomechanics being used to both enhance offerings and to help establish ideal roles for our guys. Beyond that, it’s clear that pitching depth is highly important to front office and there was actually a glut of SP talent in AAA before the rash on injuries happened. And to be clear here, by no means am I saying this strategy is going to solve all our problems as much of this is stuff is common nature for modern orgs. But it can’t be stressed enough how behind the times we were and how basic improvements to our foundations can rapidly improve the quality of org. f***, I would happily take an average org from a scouting, player development, & analytics perspective and hope that Ishbia can eventually be a difference maker on the payroll side. Regardless, there is a real plan in place whether or not our very bad rebuilding roster has speed on it or not.

Same here…I need to be hurt again so I finally feel something

Ishbia spending his hard earned money on Tucker and a new stadium would be a good start to his reign as majority shareholder.