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White Sox Mgr Speculation Thread
Chicago White Sox replied to southsider2k5's topic in Pale Hose Talk
Assuming we go cheap and sign Conforto (sorry Nimmo fans), this would be my lineup against RHP: Moncada, 3B# Anderson, SS Vaughn, 1B Jimenez, DH Conforto, RF* Robert, CF Grandal, C# Colas, LF* Sosa, 2B Obviously dependent on Moncada getting his OBP back to .360+ like @CentralChamps21 suggested -
Interesting podcast interview with doug laumann
Chicago White Sox replied to Dominikk85's topic in Pale Hose Talk
Laumann was actually pretty solid. Drafted Sale, Anderson, Semien, Rodon, Bassitt, Hudson, Bummer, etc. He was a huge improvement from Schaefer and better than his replacement Hostetler IMO. -
White Sox Mgr Speculation Thread
Chicago White Sox replied to southsider2k5's topic in Pale Hose Talk
I get the manager won’t be the hitting coach, but Long would certainly help us get back to a more power / OBP oriented approach. And never having to see someone like Leury bat lead-off again would be a dream come true. Also, if Long is the guy, I’d be good with Katz, Hasler, & Cairo returning. I think the former two have generally done a good job on the pitching side and Miguel might be worthwhile to keep around in something capacity (doesn’t have to be bench coach). I see zero reason to keep any of the rest of them around. -
White Sox Mgr Speculation Thread
Chicago White Sox replied to southsider2k5's topic in Pale Hose Talk
One last quote from Long in the Athletic interview: -
White Sox Mgr Speculation Thread
Chicago White Sox replied to southsider2k5's topic in Pale Hose Talk
Sounds like they’re keeping Boone. -
White Sox Mgr Speculation Thread
Chicago White Sox replied to southsider2k5's topic in Pale Hose Talk
Here is a quote from Kevin Long that supports a more modern approach to hitting: Here is a quote from Frank Menechino: -
White Sox Mgr Speculation Thread
Chicago White Sox replied to southsider2k5's topic in Pale Hose Talk
This is from an interview with the Athletic on how Kevin prepared for joining the Phillies. -
White Sox Mgr Speculation Thread
Chicago White Sox replied to southsider2k5's topic in Pale Hose Talk
Don’t think Frank will coming unfortunately -
White Sox Mgr Speculation Thread
Chicago White Sox replied to southsider2k5's topic in Pale Hose Talk
I’d be very pleased with Long given the rumored alternatives. -
White Sox Mgr Speculation Thread
Chicago White Sox replied to southsider2k5's topic in Pale Hose Talk
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White Sox Mgr Speculation Thread
Chicago White Sox replied to southsider2k5's topic in Pale Hose Talk
If it’s not Long or Espada, then hopefully we get a decision this week. The World Series doesn’t start until Friday, seems like we could sneak in a Getz announcement beforehand ? -
White Sox Mgr Speculation Thread
Chicago White Sox replied to southsider2k5's topic in Pale Hose Talk
You’d hate a Kevin Long hire? -
Yeah, it’s very clear to me that Jerry is the root of most of our problems. I do think we see a transformation once he finally sells the team (assuming it’s not to his son). To me, this franchise should be a powerhouse and it has operated so unlike how good businesses do for so many years. Invest in a consistent, quality product and people will want to consume it in droves. Unfortunately, Jerry is a “can’t spend a dollar if I only have 50 cents” type guy and will never budge from that sort of operating principle. Just got to hope Mellody Hobson & George Lucas or whoever ends up buying the team will let its employees run without too much interference while also holding them accountable. And yeah, plenty to be excited for back in Chicago beyond just the Sox. Just wish the Sox would do me some favors as I work to get my sons interested in the team and professional baseball in general.
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White Sox Mgr Speculation Thread
Chicago White Sox replied to southsider2k5's topic in Pale Hose Talk
Good point on not needing to move fast on the inside guys. If it’s an internal hire, I do think Getz is far more likely than Thome. We got to pray it’s somehow Kevin Long though. -
White Sox Mgr Speculation Thread
Chicago White Sox replied to southsider2k5's topic in Pale Hose Talk
No -
White Sox Mgr Speculation Thread
Chicago White Sox replied to southsider2k5's topic in Pale Hose Talk
If this Northbrook Bob guy is to believed and the Sox have already ruled out Espada, you got to think there is already someone in mind for the job. And if there is someone in the mind for the job, you think Hahn would accelerate a hiring decision to avoid competing with the Marlins or Royals unless said candidate is part of a playoff team. And if said candidate is a part of a playoff team and it’s not Espada, then it’s got to be Kevin Long right? Optimistic me says it has to be him, although the pessimistic me can’t quite shake the Getz rumor. Hiring him and promoting KW Jr after acknowledging the organization has been too insular would be such a White Sox set of moves. -
I’ll give Brooks Boyer a lot of credit. He wrote me a lengthy, well thought-out email back when I voiced my frustrations over the SoxFest cancellation. While he didn’t explain the reason for the decision (he simply said the traditional SoxFest didn’t make sense for the club this year), he did push back on my cowardice accusations, albeit in a very respectful way. And while I don’t fully buy that, perhaps there is more to the story than just avoiding accountability after a horrible season. Regardless, he really is one of the good guys in the organization and truly wants to put together the best fan experience possible. Unfortunately, there are clearly limitations being part of a Reinsdorf owned operation.
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There is some of that in Elmhurst no doubt, but it’s leagues different. Like when the Uvalde shooting happened, my neighbor posted to Instagram that guns weren’t the problem but rather that lack of Jesus in schools. And no one I knew down there batted an eyelash at that opinion. I knew I had to get the f*** out of there immediately.
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White Sox Mgr Speculation Thread
Chicago White Sox replied to southsider2k5's topic in Pale Hose Talk
Have we really resulted to “mystery candidates” for manager vacancies? ?? -
White Sox Mgr Speculation Thread
Chicago White Sox replied to southsider2k5's topic in Pale Hose Talk
You believe these Northbrook Bob & Eloy vs. Wall characters or have you heard something similar? Last I checked Mike Rodriguez hasn’t moved off his initial report that it will be Espada. -
White Sox Mgr Speculation Thread
Chicago White Sox replied to southsider2k5's topic in Pale Hose Talk
Oh god, are you suggesting this is to allow KW Jr to be in charge of the farm? -
White Sox Mgr Speculation Thread
Chicago White Sox replied to southsider2k5's topic in Pale Hose Talk
Wouldn’t Getz rather be GM once KW retires and Hahn gets moved up to EVP of Baseball Operations? Seems like he’s leapfrogged Haber to be next man up. -
White Sox Mgr Speculation Thread
Chicago White Sox replied to southsider2k5's topic in Pale Hose Talk
He did go to Michigan so he meets the unwritten one ? -
I think the LatAm stuff is a bit tricky. For years, we underinvested in this area, whereas other clubs would blow through their cap and load up on talent prior to taking their penalties. Unfortunately, we have to accept a few realities here. First, it took a little bit of time for Paddy to right our LatAm operations after the Dave Wilder fiasco. Spending big may not have been a real option early on in his tenure. Second, Reinsdorf provides his own challenges when it comes to spending big in this area. Traditionally he has been a stickler for following the rules (see his refusal to go above slot for years), which may have limited Hahn’s ability to mimic what teams like the Padres were doing. Furthermore, he does not like spending big on unproven talent (draft or LatAm) vs. major league ball players and especially hates pursuing 16 year old Hispanic kids. Of course the year that the Sox finally decide to go into the penalty box is the year they sign Luis Robert. Unfortunately for us, the Sox didn’t treat it like a big overage year and only signed 20 players (for reference we would sign 26 players just two years later under the new capped structure). Without Luis, I think it would have been a normal year. Again, I struggle how much to blame Hahn for that vs. Jerry. Don’t get me wrong, investing in LatAm provides the best overall ROI vs other types of spend and it’s Hahn’s job to make that clear to Jerry. But we all know Reinsdorf is a stubborn f*** who likes to do things his way. I agree those next three years were problematic. Not spending up to their cap is simply unacceptable. I get maybe the 2017-18 class through a wrench with the addition of Robert, but being in the penalty box never stopped the Padres maxing out, even if it had to be on lower priced guys. It’s very clear the Sox did some poor planning here and did not have counter-measures in place in the event they signed Robert. The 2019-20 class is the most embarrassing given we were out of the penalty box and to your point should have had ample lead time to use our budget appropriately. And ultimately our big prize was spending $2.5M on a 22 year old Cuban who projected to be a UT infielder. I believe there may have been some other Cubans that were intended to part of that class but didn’t materialize for whatever reasons, but that’s still no excuse for not spending to budget. So yes, Hahn clearly failed in this area and I didn’t rip him to the appropriate levels, but I do think there are other considerations in the LatAm space that makes his failures less egregious than those on the amateur scouting / player development side of things.
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I mean, JT Realmuto is both their best player and the highest paid catcher in all of baseball. They also traded a ton get him, although he has been worth every penny. Not trying to discredit your point, but probably important to point out. That being said, Hahn’s ability to supplement this roster via free agency has been disastrous. IMO, there are two reasons for this. First, was several big misses in free agency that resulted in dollars being allocated differently than originally planned. Second, was the absolute failure to develop cheap pre-arb talent to provide above replacement level production at certain spots. Regarding the first point, everything probably changes if Jerry nuts up and signs Machado to the deal the Padres offered. Additionally, let’s not forgot that Hahn actually prioritized a Wheeler signing and made a higher offer than the Phillies, but lost out due to geographical considerations. Can’t blame Hahn for the miss there, but can blame him for panic signing Dallas Keuchel. Yes, he delivered in a COVID shortened 2020 season, but was basically useless 18 months into that deal and was never going to be a true TOR starter for us. So instead of having a cornerstone 3B & SP to build around for ~$55M/year in payroll commitments, those funds went elsewhere. Grandal is currently the largest free agency acquisition in franchise history at 4/$73M. I was a huge fan of the signing and won’t rip it now, especially when we needed a LH bat and the alternative was overpaying for James McCann. The problem was that was our only true high impact move in free agency. Maybe you can argue the Hendriks signing being one given how elite he is, but at the end of the day he is a reliever and that limits his potential impact to some extent. But that doesn’t explain where all the money went. Let’s lay this all out. The core pieces that Hahn acquired during the rebuild accounted for ~$50M in salary this year (Moncada, Anderson, Robert, Eloy, Vaughn, Giolito, Cease, Kopech, Lopez, & Bummer). Beyond Grandal, Keuchel, & Hendriks (who made a combined ~$49M this year), the other two expensive core pieces were Lynn ($18.5M) & Abreu ($14M). That’s ~$132M in total payroll for seven everyday positional guys, four starters, and three high leverage relievers. That gave Hahn ~$54M to finish offer the roster. And that’s where the second problem comes in. Because Hahn failed to build a steady pipeline of talent during the rebuild years, the Sox didn’t have cheap options from within to fill their remaining holes. Hostetler’s focus early on in low ceiling college bats with little to no defensive utility (Collins, Burger, Sheets, etc) created a system that lacked athleticism. The Robert signing limited what Paddy could do in subsequent years, which hurt our up-the-middle depth (just starting to see the fruits of his labor here with Sosa & Popeye). Getz & staff could not develop the few fringe prospects we had like Rutherford, Adolfo, Basabe, & Gonzalez into legitimate major league options (although SF did with the latter). And our pitching depth in the upper minors became a complete joke. Despite all the investments that we made into relief prospects, we struggled to develop a critical mass of major league caliber bullpen arms. Quite frankly, the prospect cupboard was quickly empty after the first few waves and organizational depth became non-existent. So coming full circle, where did that other ~$54M go? Hahn spent $11.5M on Pollock to solve “RF” for a year (despite not being a RF) because all our minor league options had failed and Colas & Cespedes weren’t ready yet. He spent a combined $9.5M on Leury & Harrison to fill 2B for a year and provide some up-the-middle depth that he thought the system couldn’t. Rick spent $18M on two high-leverage relievers and a shitty swingman because the farm literally had nothing to offer. For that same $39M, we could have Bryce Harper playing RF ($26M) right now with Eduardo Escobar at 2B ($10M). All it took was for Hahn’s staff to develop four pre-arb guys to fill out a major league bench and bullpen, but unfortunately that was too much to ask for after a multi-year rebuild TLDR - So yes, Hahn’s ability to supplement this roster via free agency has been a complete & utter disaster, but beyond just the poor resource allocation is an organization wide incompetence that lead him to prioritize depth over impact talent in free agency. And it’s those core failings in draft strategy and player development that should prevent from ever being a major league GM again.
