gatnom

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 09:21 AM) Groce might recruit himself off of the hot seat. I'm hoping for good things this year. Sounds like Travis Ford might just recruit Groce into the unemployment line.

QUOTE (JenksIsMyHero @ Nov 8, 2016 -> 03:21 PM) I'm more upset that they cancelled the UI-NW series at Soldier Field. Not sure why they did that unless it was costing too much money. They didn't want to give up a home conference game. I believe the plan is to host one of the bigger out of conference games there.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Nov 7, 2016 -> 11:46 AM) Nor is that money really even needed in today's environment, where plenty of money comes from tv rights and revenue sharing. They can take the hit at the gate for a few years. The fans will come back when the team starts playing well again. It isn't like they are dismantling the '98 Bulls or something. 100% agree here

There is no need for the "but they'll lose all the fans" fear mongering anymore. The fans are already gone.

I believe he's listening. But, what will he do if nobody is willing to meet his prices? Stand pat? Try to improve the roster? Hahn's prices don't seem to be met often.

QUOTE (Middle Buffalo @ Nov 6, 2016 -> 07:01 AM) The Sox havent been able to evaluate or develop positional players. I'm not sure why we'd want to trade established front line pitching for a bunch of prospects and unproven players from another team and trust our minor league development team to make them major league players. If the Sox are completely unable to develop position players, they're pretty screwed either way.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Nov 4, 2016 -> 08:24 AM) The White Sox rarely seem to be on the right side of these trades. I'd like the Sox to unload a garbage player for a return value similar to that of Tatis Jr. These type of trades are desperately needed by us too. Trading fair value won't improve our team The Costanza approach.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Oct 27, 2016 -> 12:19 PM) It fascinates me that the Cubs can spend $184 million on a bum like Heyward and not miss a beat while the Sox only owe Shields approximately 1/7th of that and are struggling big time with payroll. If we had a way of acquiring talent other than by spending money, the Shields contract wouldn't actually be much of an issue.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 20, 2016 -> 09:41 AM) It honestly depends on what the rest of the deal looks like. I would be surprised if Boston wouldn't consider him to be a centerpiece.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Oct 12, 2016 -> 12:18 PM) I see no scenario where the Sox undergo a full scorched earth rebuild. Regardless of anyone's opinions on what the Sox should do, they should be able to agree on this. It's just not how the FO works.

QUOTE (SI1020 @ Oct 11, 2016 -> 10:34 AM) So I guess we should trade Sale for Bradley and any other player with 0.4 WAR and be ahead of the game. If the other player has a 2.0 WAR then it's a steal. Yes, this is exactly what I said.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 09:33 PM) Disagree on value of Bradley. If Bosox trade him, they wouldn't miss a beat. They would just slide Benintendi in there. I have no doubt that they consider him much more valuable than Bradley. On another note, this right handed pitcher Kopech supposedly throws harder than Chapman. Has hit 104. I agree that they would trade him for Sale. I just don't think you're going to get a mega package with a guy like Benintendi or Moncada coming with. The reality is that if you really wanted to do a full tear down, you could flip him to another team for a nice load of prospects by himself, making him a good centerpiece regardless.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 11:51 AM) Jackie Bradley Jr's value is not anywhere near Sale, IMO. He's a nice first piece, but I'd still want 4 of their top prospects with him. JBJ, Beintendi, Devers, Kopech and Rodriguez. If they're unwilling to include JBJ, then take Moncada. The Red Sox are about to get knocked out of the playoffs in the first round because they have mediocre SP. There will be pressure to make a move, and there are no moves to be made on the FA market. That's called leverage. He was a 4.9 WAR player last year (to Sale's 5.2) and is under control for 1 more year. I agree he's less valuable, but it's closer than you think.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 11:29 AM) Teams generally aren't going to trade meaningful pieces off the ML roster during a playoff hunt. Boston, for example, was probably unwilling to trade JBJ. I am sure the Sox want Betts (who wouldn't?), but that ship has sailed. Not to mention that teams not in contention probably aren't going to be interested at that point in time. I am not advocating for the Sox to hold onto assets for the hope of making the playoffs - though I do hope they supplement the roster with some pieces if they do indeed decide to hold Sale and Q for the time being - but moreso advocating for them maximizing the return they get on these guys. Making a trade to make a trade is the worst thing the Sox could do. They need to clean someones minor league system of all the top talent, not settle for 2nd tier guys because team X, Y or Z wasn't willing to trade their top young talent. Well guess what - then you're not getting Chris Sale, and you can keep running out your garbage back end starters or go and pay Jeremy Hellickson $55M over the next three years. I don't think either of us really wants to have them mess this up by having them trade for whatever they can get. My point is mostly that a team like Boston is already a playoff caliber team. The White Sox haven't been close in years. They're the ones who need to make something happen way more than the Red Sox. The problem with trading for a Jackie Bradley Jr. type is that his value is very nearly that of Sale, and you might not be able to get much more out of the Red Sox other than him. I'm not sure that's the trade they need to be making right now, but it could make for an interesting retool on the fly situation.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 11:03 AM) Not sure if this is sarcasm or not, but let me break it down if it is. The Sox hold a top 3 pitcher in all of the game for 3 years @ $38M (last 2 are team options which increases value in case of injury). If Chris Sale were a free agent this winter, he'd likely sign a 7 or 8 year deal worth with an AAV north of $30M. Think about that. The Sox also hold a top 30 pitcher in the game (I tend to think he is better than that, but going conservative) for the next 4 years at $37.85M (last 2 are again team options). If Jose Quintana were a free agent this winter, he'd likely sign at least a 5 year deal worth no less than $100M (AAV of $20M), which again, is probably conservative. Think about that. The best free agent SP this winter are, in no particular order: Andrew Casher, Rich Hill, Jeremy Hellickson, Colby Lewis, Ivan Nova, and Edinson Volquez. The next tier is Brett Anderson, Bartolo Colon, RA Dicky, Doug Fister, Jake Peavy and Jered Weaver. Those are the top arms available, and the best one is maybe a #3 starter. These dudes are about to get PAID. Think about that. The Sox are in an absolutely wonderful position. Yes, it probably makes sense to trade these guys and start this rebuild. But they don't HAVE TO trade them. The Sox can sit back and ask for the moon, and they should. If you don't get what you want, you keep these guys who aren't breaking the bank and who's values are not going to diminish. Maybe no one will pay what it takes to get a Chris Sale - I mean when has a legitimate ace signed for 3 years at a 1/3 of what he'd get on the open market on an AAV-basis ever been traded? Its never happened. If you have to hold on to Sale for another year because the offers aren't what you want, you do that. That is without even mentioning their other extremely valuable assets in Adam Eaton and Carlos Rodon. The Sox are in a very unique position. I understand why some don't have faith that this front office has what it takes to execute this correctly. But this is the same front office that has given us each and every one of these assets. The fact that Sale and Quintana weren't traded last July when the market seemed primed was in all liklihood because they are asking for the moon. Be patient - the Sox absolutely NEED to hit home runs with these trades. The time will come, and hopefully when it does, it is because the Sox finally got what they are asking for, and not because they settled. The market appears good this offseason, but it also appeared good at the deadline. They weren't able to get what they were asking for then, and if they keep asking for the same players that they wanted then, I don't think they'll be able to get what they're asking for now. The Sox have had both of these players in their starting rotation since 2012, and have 0 playoff appearances to show for it. Maybe holding onto their assets will eventually result in a playoff appearance, but I'm not exactly holding my breath on it. Ultimately, as long as the Sox don't give up a bunch of draft picks this offseason, I'll be ok with whatever they do. I just don't consider them to be holding anything resembling an upper hand.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 09:50 AM) The Sox do hold the cards here. I don't think they're taking anything less than an overpay, and they shouldn't. Yeah, with the organization in such a strong position, the Sox really have the upper hand here.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Oct 10, 2016 -> 08:12 AM) Every team could use Sale. To pin one start or so as the reason they would "need" him at virtuously any cost I just don't think is going to happen. Porcello and Price were awful. Hamels was awful. It does happen. To me the real question with Boston is Porcello really a top of the rotation guy, or did he just have everything go right for a career year? It is possible if Sale started for these teams in the postseason, everything still would have gone bad. He wasn't exactly lights out against Minnesota the last game of the year. It will be interesting to see if any team is willing to pay the White Sox price, and at what level the White Sox are willing to go to get a deal done. I still think most of these proposals are overstated. I know Shelby Miller cost a huge price, and Sale is a lot better and will cost a huge price. But everyone knew the Miller price was ridiculous, and it not working out for Arizona doesn't help the White Sox cause here. Whether it is correct or not, similar things effect each other. If Abreu sucked, the Cuban players behind him would have received a lot less money. If Kaz Matsui was as good as advertised, Iguchi would never have been available to the White Sox at a bargain rate. Trading Sale with his contract situation is pretty close to unprecedented. It's one reason why I think there is a cap on what teams would be willing to give up, and while the package would be huge, not as huge as using previous trades and adding Sale's increased value would make it. I fully believe the front office wants to rebuild, but I also believe the players they want are actually worth more than the players they want to trade away. It's not obvious to me how willing they would be to make a deal in that scenario. My guess is that they do what they did last season and just sort of hope that the team overperforms.

If you strung consecutive good years together, fan momentum would build. But, the White Sox haven't done that in awhile (ever? I'm a relatively young guy).

QUOTE (flavum @ Oct 1, 2016 -> 07:39 PM) No doubt, fans are going to be happy about this, but I want the Sox to make moves based on being sound baseball decisions, not just making fans feel good. The good news is that the fans seem to be closer to sound baseball decisions than the front office these days...

QUOTE (Brian @ Oct 1, 2016 -> 06:15 PM) Man, those refs always have it out for Illinois. Every year, every sport. This just in: Illinois fans only fans to ever complain about refs.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 30, 2016 -> 10:18 AM) The funny thing is the Cubs are about to go start their own cable network. If this theory is right, the Sox should be back in no time. Completely different eras, but it will definitely be interesting to see how these new mega deals work out. I suppose if they keep winning it won't matter.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 29, 2016 -> 09:08 PM) Each of those tickets has more spending at the park to go with it, not to mention the things like bigger advertising dollars from having more people watching games, higher ratings etc. I'll never understand why some fans are so concerned over JR's pocketbook. He has enough money to win, often spends enough money to win (obviously not this year), almost always falls short of winning, and refuses to do anything about it. I don't hate the guy, and I even appreciate the amount he's has been willing to spend in the past despite lower revenues. But, the fact of the matter is that he's just a bad owner. His blind loyalty without any need for results is holding this organization back; the fact that guys like KW and Buddy Bell are still a part of his front office is a travesty. Hahn is getting there himself. This Robin Ventura story is just a microcosm of that.

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Sep 23, 2016 -> 09:11 AM) My wife has a graphic design background. She said that any type of financial institution using an arrow, either up or down, is a big no-no. So she wonders why GR has used one this long and why the sox thought it wasn't going to be a problem. I really don't care one way or the other about how the logo looks on the stadium, but I have to agree on the logo in general. I see what they were going for, but a red arrow pointed downward has such a negative connotation to it that it's crazy they couldn't have come up with a better logo. Of course, they're the ones running a successful company, so maybe I'm the crazy one.

Man, the attendance argument is really tired. Are there even that many fans to lose? What does losing a couple thousand fans per game really matter if it puts the team on a path to actually being a winning baseball team? The pocket change that the team loses in the short term pales in comparison to the revenue they would generate if they would go on a sustained run of winning. Obviously, people disagree on whether or not there should be a rebuild, but the amount of fans that show up next year is the dumbest argument I've heard, for or against it.

Man, that's a big commitment to a guy who just takes advantage of being in the worst division in the Power 5.