Thad Bosley

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 18, 2016 -> 12:03 AM) With what resources? They'd already be way over the budget for 2016 with nothing left in the farm outside the big 3. That upgrade wouldn't be of the magnitude of acquiring one of these two top tier talents. A defense oriented, left handed hitting OF is what we'd need to try and obtain. We have to improve our OF defense, which means we have to make the best efforts to get both Melky and Avi out of there.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 17, 2016 -> 11:56 PM) No the Sox would then have to put Melky in RF. Tigers already set in CF and RF For me, Melky goes to DH and Hahn continues to work on an upgrade in RF. If he can't find that upgrade, then Melky can't do any worse defensively in RF than Avi, and meanwhile, we added last year's LF Gold Glove winner in left AND his bat in the heart of our order. Again, Cespedes is a NO-BRAINER. He makes sense on every level.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 17, 2016 -> 11:53 PM) Cespedes is a perfect fit for Tigers in LF And he's not for us??

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 17, 2016 -> 11:37 PM) I completely agree it would be a disappointment, but Hahn and company have never once mentioned an interest in Cespedes or Upton. I don't need to hear them say they do. But with below average talent inhabiting both left and right field, and with a farm system currently lacking in depth to acquire via trade the type of talent comparable to either Cespedes or Upton, then we need to be acquiring one of them in this particular market, no excuses. Again, only if Hahn and Kenny are to be taken seriously when they say they want to "maximize" their opportunity to win with the current core in place. At this point, only Cespedes and Upton represent the opportunity to enhance a big weakness in the lineup without drawing from other talent on the roster or farm system. It really is a no-brainer, particularly with relatively no competition in the marketplace. I happen to think they will get it done, but until it does, I will be cautious in my optimism, given the lingering memory of the Angels coming in out of nowhere at the last minute to snatch Torii Hunter from us.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 17, 2016 -> 10:39 PM) The Sox have three prospects worth anything and no depth at the MLB level. Good luck acquiring an impact player with those resources. Which is why Cespedes is the guy to get right now, even if there has to be an overpay. If Hahn and Kenny are serious when they say they want to "maximize" the window of opportunity to compete with Sale & Abreu in tact, and with the team currently featuring below-average talent in both left and right, and no answer coming up through the system, then who else? Who else best helps this team "maximize" it's ability to return to the postseason that's as easily as attainable at this point as Cespedes? The team doesn't have to give up any prospects like they would have to in a trade, or a compensation pick in next year's draft. Just years and money at this point. Just over pay now to enhance our chances to win over the next few years, and worry about '19/'20 when we get there. At this point, anything less than Cespedes or Upton, after all of the noise about the Sox being "in" on both, given our needs and no competition from the big spenders, would be a tremendous failure and disappointment.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 17, 2016 -> 07:56 PM) So Dick Allen and the Southside Hitmen didn't matter, Uh, uh, uh, Dick Allen. No trolling here. I didn't say that, nor did I infer it. I'm specifically talking about Harry Caray's impact. But since you mentioned it, Harry did a sensational job of promoting both Richie Allen and that '77 team. You of all people here, under the moniker of "Dick Allen", ought to know that. the White Sox drew 1.5 million one time when Harry was announcing. Which was three times that when he first arrived on the scene in '71. 1970 attendance was less than 500,000. Caray's presence resulted in increases in attendance each year after which, maybe you don't realize his impact on those increases, Dick, but Sox management then did, because his bonus was tied to it. That is when they won 90 games, not the opportunity to sing take me out to the ballgame. Singing along with Harry was always a big part of the Sox fan experience at Comiskey Park, and a big part of the draw to go to Sox games in those days. To suggest otherwise shows a superficial understanding of what was going on back then. In fact, the attendance per game the next 4 years after Harry left, was higher than it ever was when he was there, and higher than it was at Wrigley with Harry there during those seasons And now back to my original point, the attendance would have been even higher in the years 1982 and on, had Caray been with the Sox and broadcasting the games on WGN, instead of Joe McConnell and Early Wynn broadcasting games on SportsVision. Truth.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 17, 2016 -> 07:25 PM) It really doesn't boggle the mind. Harry sang Take Me Out to the Ballgame for bad teams on the southside and there was no attendance jump. Harry Caray broadcasting White Sox baseball and singing Take Me Out to the Ballgame absolutely made a difference in Sox attendance. He actually had a bonus agreement in his early years tied right into the jump in attendance. And he made such a difference in improving attendance that the Sox had to scrap the bonus because it was getting too expensive. All of this with him initially broadcasting on a radio network anchored by some 5,000 watt station in LaGrange, and then later on TV with the lowly Channel 44. It's an absolute credit to Caray to make the impact he did with such poor exposure. But in his one and only year broadcasting the Sox on WGN, TV ratings were their highest ever, and attendance began to rise as a result. And so yes it does boggle the mind if you understand what Caray was capable of and then wonder how things would have turned out had he stayed with the Sox.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 17, 2016 -> 05:24 PM) Each season during Sportvisions life, befor it moved to cable, the White Sox outdrew the Cubs. They even outdrew the Cubs the next season when the Cubs made the playoffs. Being on WGN would have helped a lot because it would have brought in more viewers from around the country, and cable, which is pay per view, but one thing no one mentions was the Cubs playing all day games at home also helped them immensely. The Braves were on a superstation with Harry's son, and that didn't lead to sellout crowds, I think if they had played the number of night games the other teams played, people from other areas would have been tuned into other things. Well, you bring up an interesting point mentioning Skip Caray, Harry's son, who did Braves games for many years on the "other" superstation, TBS. And it's interesting because it does go to show that just merely being on a superstation doesn't guarantee success at the box office or in ratings. It does matter who is behind the mic, and Skip Caray was the antithesis of his father when it came to broadcasting. He wasn't particularly exciting to listen to, and certainly didn't inspire people to come from all over the country to see Braves baseball in person in Atlanta. Harry Caray, on the other hand, understood the power of the superstation, and aligned his superb salesmanship with the enormous exposure he was getting on WGN. It did take him a couple of years to endear himself to the Cubbie faithful. He wasn't very popular in the first year, in '82, because he was transitioning from being known as the long-time bombastic voice of the "enemy" White Sox to the voice of the Cubs. It took Cubs fans a little while to get used to his style after decades of listening to Jack Brickhouse. And in '82 he was paired with Milo Hamilton, which was a disaster on many levels. He was paired with Steve Stone in '83, and then by '84 he was well on his way to making the Cubs the national sensation that they remain today. And so my point remains, that could have been the White Sox. The "What if" possibilities boggle the mind. We'll never know, of course, but what we do know is things would have turned out a lot better had Caray stayed with the Sox and had he broadcasted Sox baseball on WGN from 1982 until 1997. There really is no arguing that, in my opinion.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jan 17, 2016 -> 03:43 PM) The Sox didn't leave WGN for it though. Basically they left WFLD for it. It was "brilliant" in the concept idea as history would show, given the number of regional sports networks now in existence. As I said it was an idea ahead of its time and probably would have worked under different circumstances (which I outlined). I'm not justifying what was done, it was a major mistake on the part of the organization but again, the idea in and of itself was brilliant. As far as Harry, given the animosity between he and the owners (which didn't start out that way I have a 10th inning show from April 1981 where Harry openly praised ownership for spending money and for putting winning ahead of other things) there was no way he was staying with SportsVision or without it. The Sox in fact offered him more money for 1982 than the Cubs did, but the atmosphere was poisoned beyond repair. Mark Einhorn scrapped WGN as the free TV option after the '81 season because he wasn't happy with the rights fees that Veeck had negotiated. Fine, but just go in and negotiate a better deal, Mr. TV Guru Einhorn, but keep the Sox on the damn superstation. Instead, he switches the Sox over to WFLD for the '82 season, but for even fewer free games than the 64 which were televised on WGN in '81. In fact, did you know that only a mere 32 games were broadcast on free TV, on WFLD, in 1983? Just 32, and that in a market where fewer than 20,000 homes had SportsVision. You compare that very minimal amount of exposure to what the Cubs had during their division winning season the following year with nearly every game televised on WGN reaching 22 million homes, and it's not even funny. Meanwhile, Mark, I would direct you to that game which you've referenced a few times, that game in June of 1981 televised on WGN with the Sox at home at Comiskey Park against the Yankees. It was the last game before the strike that year, and Caray had Einhorn in the booth talking about the prospects of the strike. But in doing so, Einhorn also mentions that the Sox' ratings on WGN are the "highest they've ever been", and is a big reason the Sox were also seeing a huge increase in attendance. The park that night was packed, and it was electric when the seventh inning came along and Harry led the WHITE SOX fans at COMISKEY PARK on superstation WGN in the singing of "Take me out to the ball game". You know, that "tradition" which fans from across the country flock to Wrigley Field to this very day to participate in? WE HAD IT FIRST! And that game in June of '81, you can easily see how if Harry had stayed with the Sox, coupled with the national exposure on WGN, we could easily be talking about the Sox today as the national treasure instead of the Cubs. I'm pretty sure Milo Hamilton would not have propelled the Cubs to the level of popularity the way Caray did. A completely missed opportunity by the "owners", and only because they couldn't get along with Caray. Bill Veeck was able to. The Tribune Co. execs were able to. But the "new owners", Jerry Reinsdorf and Edie Einhorn, new to baseball at the time, could not. And as a result, the rest as they say, is history. SportsVision.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jan 17, 2016 -> 01:20 PM) Back in 2002 I originally did an article on SportsVision and the history of that network. With the stories in Fan Graphs and ESPN.com this past summer on White Sox viewership as well as the recent hiring of new Sox play by play TV announcer Jason Benetti I thought it was time to take a fresh look at the subject. In addition I was able to track down and have a talk with one of the original SportsVision announcers, Mike Leiderman to get his memories and opinions on the network. I hope you'll enjoy reading the story and will learn a little bit about the history of that network, which was the first of its kind in the country. Here is the link to it: http://www.chicagonow.com/soxnet/2016/01/t...f-sportsvision/ Thanks as well to Dan Shapiro for his help with this. Mark The flaw in the telling of the story about this franchise-crippling decision to leave WGN in favor of SportsVision was that it was somehow a "brilliant idea way ahead of its time." Brilliant in what context? Brilliant in terms of maximizing the fan's experience? No, the credit for that brilliant idea goes to the Cubs, who hired Harry Caray away from the Sox to go onto selling the Cubs and Wrigley Field experience for 16 years on WGN. The only brilliance that could have been remotely associated with the SportsVision scheme would have been had it rendered the kinds of profits Messrs. Einhorn and Reinsdorf were hoping for. Meanwhile, what would have been truly brilliant is if Caray had been broadcasting White Sox games on WGN during the 1983 season. If Caray remains with the Sox for the remainder of his career, and if the Sox had stayed on WGN, we wouldn't be having the many discussions about attendance problems like we've had for so many years.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 7, 2016 -> 11:13 AM) They might, they might not. It could be a negotiating tool. Why complain about it until it's actually proven to be a fact? If it turns out to be true, and neither signs for 3 years, then complain. I just don't get the they won't sign anybody theme going on now because one guy is off the board. Will you please cease and desist with your incessant use of the terms "whining" and "complaining". Nobody's whining or complaining about anything in this discussion, except for perhaps, you. The White Sox put it out there last week that they are only interested in a three year deal or less with these free agents, and now on the heels of Gordon getting a four year deal (at his age), and after Heyward got his eight year deal, there is a concern at this point in time what that three year pronouncement by the Sox might have on the current negotiations with either Cespedes and Upton. That's all - just a concern by some interested fans at this point in time as to what it all means. But you and your knee jerk inclination to immediately start accusing people of whining and complaining, well, that is getting really old and certainly does nothing to constructively contribute to the discourse here.

Rick Hahn is on record recently when he said “Our goal and intent all along has been to maximize the window to win a championship while these players are on our roster", referring of course to the core comprising Sale, Abreu, Quintana, Eaton, and Robertson. Kenny Williams is similarly on record when he stated last July “If we do anything, it will be consistent with trying to maximize this three-year plan or window that we set out originally.” That choice of the word "maximize" by both of these execs should strongly suggest that with the huge hole or talent deficit the team currently has in both left field and right field, combined with seemingly no competition from the typical big spenders in the marketplace (i.e., the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Angels), that the Chicago White Sox should walk away this offseason with one of the two available premium outfield talents in either Cespedes or Upton. Anything less at this point, particularly after weeks of hearing the Sox "are in" on talks with these players, would be quite disappointing and would certainly require Hahn and Williams to explain exactly what they mean when they use that word "maximize" in the context of making the team competitive in the next few years.

QUOTE (oldsox @ Jan 4, 2016 -> 09:18 AM) If he pitches decently, it's more likely he gets traded in July. Presuming we are not in contention by then, which I refuse to believe at the moment that we won't be. The additions of both Frazier and Lawrie are very encouraging, as is the prospect of adding any one of the three oft-mentioned free agent outfielders. Those additions and a little more tidying up of the roster here and there, along with entering the season with a fearsome threesome of Sale, Quintana and Rodon, should propel us into a formidable position to contend for the division. So any talk of selling at July of any performing assets at this point seems very premature. Let's continue to support the efforts underway to take us out of Losersville and into a position to win, for godsake, so that any talk about July involves buying, not selling.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jan 1, 2016 -> 03:27 PM) Not entirely sure how this benefits the Sox in any way Unfortunately it seems like it opens the door for a last minute entry by a team like the Angels or Tigers to swoop in and easily make a better offer than one centered on "three years or less".

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Dec 22, 2015 -> 10:28 AM) Sure they can. To quote the great Jake Taylor, "Just win the whole f***ing thing". Do that 2 or 3 times, then you might steal the city. Absolutely, positively THIS. The pendulum has swung in this city before and it can certainly happen again. It will take sustained winning to get us there, but don't you believe it cannot happen.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 20, 2015 -> 05:03 PM) I see you are back to copyi and pasting your JR narrative again.They could be a lot worse, and the post I responded to included the Bulls. Just responding to your typical and rather lazy effort to deflect any and all criticism towards Sox management. I mean, talk about 'copy and paste'. If we had a dime for every time you've trotted out a superficial defense for this ownership group, we might just have enough money to buy the team ourselves.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 20, 2015 -> 03:31 PM) Yeah only 7 championships Lol - please don't conflate the accomplishments, or lack thereof, of the two organizations. As you well know, only one of those championships belongs to the Reinsdorf baseball team - in 35 years of trying. So with that very poor track record, it is a legitimate comment to make on a fan message board for the baseball team that it would be interesting to see the team under a new owner with a different organizational philosophy for running things. Could the results be worse? Sure, see Chicago Cubs - Tribune Company, 1982-2008. But chances are they couldn't be much worse than what's occurred under Reinsdorf. The lack of achievement under his leadership has left quite a bit to be desired, to say the least.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 04:28 PM) My point is you like to complain. So do you.

Steve Stone hasn't actually renewed yet, as far as I know. I wonder if it's a given he's coming back. I would have thought that would have been announced by now, unless they'll unveil the new guy & the news Stoney will be returning all at the same time.

QUOTE (beautox @ Dec 10, 2015 -> 12:06 AM) Here are my thoughts 1.) Let the kids play - I want to see Trayce in CF and Sanchez at 2B both getting the lion's share of the ABs. The sox might have something in both of them but will need to play them everyday to find out. Trayce could very easily go the same route as Randal Grichuk and Brandon Crawford before him, where he has mediocre results in the minors but great tools and it all comes together at the major league level. Sanchez on the other hand could still spend another two years at AAA and would still be age appropriate and he is a switch hitter so power and their hitting tools usually develop last, his glove alone keeps him in the lineup and if he can be league average with his bat he could be something special. 2.) Acquire a corner outfielder that fits with the age and window, Ideally its Heyward as he will likely get an Opt out after 4 years and the market next offseason looks pretty bleak. If they sign Heyward and move Eaton to LF the defense could be elite, if they sign Upton and move Eaton to RF it could be slightly above average. 3.) Keep the pitching core together they were 3rd in the AL behind the Astros and Indians, a full year of Rodon and Johnson/Montas in addition to Sale and Q being in their primes could easily push them to the best in the AL and a dark horse for the wild card and possibly the central. 4.) Keep Fulmer, Montas, Anderson, Adams and Michalczewski. 5.) Re-sign Alexei or check in with the braves on Erick Aybar. I actually cannot stop thinking about that configuration. How wonderful would it be to watch that kind of defense day in and day out, after these past several years of watching the likes of Viciedo, De Aza, Avi and Melky stinking up the joint in the outfield. Not to mention the number of stressful innings it would save the pitching staff.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 9, 2015 -> 06:13 PM) I 100% believe that Hahn is a tactition executing someone elses strategy. Both Hahn and Williams have their own responsibilities in carrying out Mr. Reinsdorf's vision and strategy. They both have said as much in the past. Which is not surprising, given Mr. Reinsdorf is the head honcho and all. The problem for quite some time now has either been with the vision and strategy itself, the execution, or some combination of both. As a team, they really haven't gotten it done. Here's to hoping for a reversal of fortune this time around!

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 05:57 PM) Fans can visit the actual organ Nancy played every home game right behind home plate. I have yet to see a long line to see it. The one they are selling is one she used at home to practice. Are you sure about that? This story from WLS-TV claims the organ in question is the "old organ from the ballpark". Maybe there's more than one organ. http://abc7chicago.com/sports/white-sox-fa...r-sale/1103458/

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 03:49 PM) Why not have a statue of Nancy and still sell the organ for money. After all, the player statues don't have real gloves and bats. Lol - well, they could do that, but the plaque on the organist's booth already has her likeness, so this might be a duplication of efforts. The actual organ would be really unique. She was always considered the most talented organist in baseball throughout her tenure, so to acknowledge and honor that by having the actual organ on the park's premises would be, in my opinion, the appropriate thing to do.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 1, 2015 -> 11:14 AM) A freaking organ? People will be lined up around the block to look over the organ thousands of times. It is good to hear Nancy herself is the one donating it for charity. Why hasn't anyone questioned where it even was if it would be such a big deal to look at? Let someone buy it, and help a needy kid or family. It's not a "freaking" organ, it's "Nancy Faust's" organ. I would think you might know the difference. And given the profound and indelible effect Nancy had on Sox fans for over 40 years, having her organ present in the ballpark to remind us fondly of her contributions to the fan experience would be really cool. Yes, there's the plaque on the organist's booth, but having the actual organ there would be a far greater and more unique tribute to her. Think of it in the same vein as having all of those statues of former Sox greats in the park. What are they there for? To remind us of some of the greatness of the Sox' past. Nancy Faust falls in that category, albeit in a slightly different capacity, and therefore the suggestion that the organ belongs in Sox Park is not only a reasonable one, but if you think about it, the right one as well.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 11, 2015 -> 05:13 PM) I am not surprised at all that is what you read in there. You totally ignored the parts about those other teams finishing under 500 for 5 straight years, and trying to move the time line forward as much as possible. For perspectives sake, that would mean finishing under .500 each of the next two years. Can you spend just a little more time in thinking about how to debunk everything I say, because your retorts are getting weaker and weaker as we go along. This is one of your sadder efforts, and that's saying something. I did not "ignore the parts about those other teams finishing under .500 for five straight years". I actually called out how Hahn not only acknowledged that's what a rebuild takes, but actually how he "praised" that approach and found it one to "emulate". What I did in my last post was simply try and tie in a point you made that we had started the rebuild a "few years ago" - your words - and therefore if this approach is one that Hahn now prefers, at least we are a few years into it. In other words, with our three consecutive years at under .500 already under our belts now, we should only have 2-3 years more of the results we've recently experienced before our fortunes turn. And given the current state of the team with its league-worst offense and near-worst defense, it's going to take 2-3 years to improve on that with an approach that involves avoiding free agency and favors acquiring young talent. One more time, SS2K5, just to make sure you get it. If Hahn is now in favor of the approach that Houston, KC, Pittsburgh and the Cubs took,,one that in his words requires a "minimum of five years with a record under .500", then at the very least that's good news, because we now have three of those under .500 done with. But it's going to take another couple of years to turn it around based on where we are today, and so your point that Hahn was not suggesting this organization wasn't "punting away half of a decade" in order to get things right was, well, wrong. Wrong and very inaccurate.