Eminor3rd

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 21, 2017 -> 01:09 PM) I really feel like that ship sailed with JR's check to Luis Robert and MLB's tax fund. Exactly. That was WAY out of character for JR. Not just something he hasn't done, but something he's actively lobbied against. We basically HAVE to take that as evidence that Rick Hahn sold it hard, and that JR is definitely willing to go off the deep end if Hahn makes a good enough case. But the immediate trade for marginal amounts of international bonus salary relief and the slight underslot reaches in the first couple rounds of the draft, IMO, are evidence that JR insisted that Hahn borrow from one place to support another. And if that's true, I'm totally cool with it -- both from JR (who just dropped a chunk of money on something he doesn't personally like) and Hahn (who correctly assessed that this was a draft in which it was worth it to punt a bit to get Robert, who is a much better prospect than anyone available anyway).

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2017 -> 09:44 AM) What happened to Alexei's defense in 2010 when Vizquel was playing 3B next to him? You're telling me that whether you have Abreu or Brandon Belt over there, it makes no appreciable difference to the middle infielders? For our defensive results, sure. Not in player development, no. And if it does, then they aren't mentally ready for the Majors.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 09:08 PM) This is what regression to the mean looks like. Yep, and this is why, when people start talking about holding Kahnle until next year if we don't get x top-whatever prospects, we must remember that the proper time to sell relievers is when they are demanded.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jun 21, 2017 -> 12:48 PM) Panda, Swihart, Ball, and Owens $15M for Frazier, Swarzak, and the remaining $36M owed to Panda over the next 2.5 seasons. Sox get a few reclamation projects in three former top 100 prospects and can plug Panda in at DH and hope he builds enough value back up to trade again in another year. Red Sox are facing a 40 man roster crunch and this frees two spots for them to add Devers and protect another guy. I highly doubt the White Sox are going to be taking salary on this year.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 21, 2017 -> 10:13 AM) Anderson and Moncada's confidence will be affected to an extent defensively...thinking every off target throw will result in an error. Young pitchers won't be helped by pressure of additional high stress pitches/innings. Etc. Oh come on

I wouldn't be surprised if the cost savings on Burger ends up being simply cost savings. Just like trading for that International spending. Also, if I'm right, I'm okay with it. They spent $50mm acquiring a prospect.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 20, 2017 -> 09:08 AM) http://www.espn.com/videohub/video/clip/_/...egoryid/2521705 Hosmer will be 28-31 if he signs a four year deal for, let's say, $70 million...although talk now after these last two months is that he's going to cost more than that. Will probably get at least five years, too. At any rate, the point was signing an undervalued (leftover one, due to glut of options on the market), not someone close to peak value. A team like the Yankees or Red Sox will be more interested. Santana might be the only one that fits that description. He's not a good defender, but he could always hit for power and put up some strong walk numbers. We absolutely do not want to be the sucker that gives Hosmer a big FA deal.

Nah. No one on that list can be expected to be good for more than the next couple seasons.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 18, 2017 -> 01:53 PM) But for a guy like Albies? You address the Sanchez part of the argument here, but not really the Albies part. That's all I'm saying -- that the presence of Sanchez should not affect our ask on trades at all.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 16, 2017 -> 12:44 PM) I don't know that I even do believe in Sanchez yet, but that profile is so dependent upon average that there's a lot of bust potential there. That's what scares me most. Yeah, I absolutely believe in him as a useful MLB player, but definitely not as a type of guy who is good enough that you avoid opportunities to acquire better players as an upgrade. He would be a strong utility-man who could very adequately rest three key positions in the infield, and that's nothing to shake a stick at, especially at arb/pre-arb prices.

We need a board-wide training session on creating polls that allow multiple selections.

The reality is we just don't really know what we have with him yet. Physical specimen? Yes. Exciting prospect? Of course. But there are many many dudes who can run into one but can't hit MLB pitching. We're going to need at least the rest of this season to make any type of useful guess at a timeline.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 16, 2017 -> 05:16 PM) Watson and Melancon aren't that exciting. Herrera is in Q territory, they have to hold onto him. So available options aren't exactly enticing. Herrera is a pending FA though, right?

Yeah I'd say that's 2-3 spots high for Burdi, and I agree that Stephens > Diaz, though I think that's about the range they both belong. Overall, though, I'd say that's about right. Definitely feels weird to have the 1st round pick fall outside of the top ten.

Fantastic work as usual.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 02:30 PM) When compared to what you might lose out by having to pay him arbitration? I'm not sure I agree here. I could be mis-remembering, but isn't Jones deal just a couple million every year? If you figure that the roster spots costs $600k at minimum, you're only talking about being out a few million over the course of a few seasons. And if he's good, he could stand to earn much more than that in arbitration.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 03:17 PM) Would extending Kahnle to a team friendly deal (like Nate Jones) and buying out his arb years, make him more valuable? I would think so -- the Nate Jones deal is so cheap that it would make pretty much ANY decent player more valuable. Even if Kahnle busts entirely, the amount of salary he'd be owed each year is just a step above rounding error.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 02:59 PM) I'm with you. Case in point is the Chapman and Miller deals last year. Chapman was a pure three month rental for the Cubs, and it cost them Torres. Miller was more than a rental, but returned Frazier and Sheffield plus a couple of flyers. Robertson/Swarzak/Kahnle are not on their level certainly, but I'd be interested if Robertson + Kahnle + cash could be enough to push them over the edge and deal Robles + Price-wise, your logic is sound, but it's predicated on the false assumption that market price for players remains stable over any significant period of time. Every time a trade happens in the MLB, the amount of supply AND demand in the market changes substantially. The buyer willing to pay the highest price for the player just left the market. Sure the Cubs were willing to give up Torres for Miller in 2016, but it is no longer 2016, the Cubs no longer have Torres, and the Cubs are no longer buying relievers. Also, Robertson isn't nearly as good as Miller, and the world has almost universally agreed that the trade was an overpay that only made sense because the Cubs ended up winning the title. There are so many dynamic, unique factors to each trade season that it just doesn't make sense to use previous season's trades as baselines for player value, IMO.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 02:11 PM) Let me ask you this...do you think it is improbable that they go out and get 2 relievers on the market? I think it's improbable that they get 2 pricey relievers, but I don't think it's necessarily improbable that they get two guys. I could absolutely see them jumping on a waiver pickup, promoting a prospect like Fedde, or buying low on a cheap has-been for one role, and then paying up for a market-rate guy as a "closer." I think it's less likely, but certainly possible that they get Robertson + Swarzak and give up a guy like Soto. But who knows, surprises happen.

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 12:19 PM) One troubling thing though: I am worried about the Sox lack of regard for defense. It is possible to have an infield of Burger, Anderson, Moncada, Sheets and Collins in a couple of years. Some of those guys could be average-ish, but overall that's not very good. That's a good point. How many "but the Sox seem to believe he can stick at _______" can you have before the defensive unit becomes unplayable as a unit?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 12:57 PM) Understood, but that was the question posed. We were asked to say what would we require to trade these three players. As much as this doesn't happen for the Nationals, it doesn't happen for the White Sox either. Theoretically, the Nats could include two of their s***ty relievers in the package to simplify things a bit. Either way, just as much as Q can say Robles isn't coming back, I can say you aren't getting my best 3 relievers. Yes, agreed. I just think I'm saying that Rizzo would never ask for three relievers in the first place.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jun 14, 2017 -> 01:04 PM) Guys, Robles isn't happening without Moncada or Kopech going back This ^ Guys like Robles are simply not part of the conversation for non-legendary relief pitchers. You can make an argument that three of them are equal in value to Robles, but as mentioned before, the actual mechanics of adding three pitchers to your 25-man roster at the same time are incredibly complicated and come with additional costs, like clubhouse stability and possibly the loss of other players who are bad now but might be useful down the road. It works in video games but not in reality.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jun 13, 2017 -> 06:04 AM) Hostetler likes his chances at 3B. If this organization has truly improved with prospects getting better defensively (Collins looks great this year) then I like the kid's chances of staying there. I love Burger as a hitter. If he stays at 3B (which he probably will) he's a very, very good prospect. And with the Sheets selection, the Sox feel that way about his future there too. I think that if we're being truly fair, it's not true to say he'll "probably" stay at third. I think we can say there's a "real chance" he stays at third.

Fisher is my dude

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 12, 2017 -> 07:04 PM) Easily imaginable if they don't think White can play in the outfield. The stuff I'm reading makes it seem really unlikely that Burger makes it to the MLB as a 3B. If you think he does, I suppose that would change the outlook for sure.