Eminor3rd

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 2, 2014 -> 03:52 PM) That's right Paulino was a free-agent. Funny aside, I don't see how a bad contract hurts a team more than having an awful farm system. Is this mad-libs? Is that what we're doing? I feel like an idiot. Ok. That's right Bartolo Colon was a firefighter. Anxiety aside, I don't know how a microwave oven treats a sailboat more than having a hilarious yellow card.

QUOTE (Charlie Haeger's Knuckles @ May 2, 2014 -> 03:33 PM) Man. Next Year is Gonna Be Awesome When We Dont Have All This Rother Dead Waight On The Teem. Dunn Gone GIDPK Gone PAULEEN-O Gawn Neeto wont need to be on the 25 mens rosters. 291 DAYS 10 HOURS 26 MINUTES 35 SECONDS until pitchers and catchers report! lol

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 2, 2014 -> 03:15 PM) The thing you don't get is the alternative to not filling holes via free agency is just as risky as these killer contracts. Did you even read what I just typed? If you did, how did you come away with the notion that I think we shouldn't fill holes via free agency?

QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ May 2, 2014 -> 11:52 AM) My feeling, exactly. I think the wise Rick Hahn is talking up Rodon at every opportunity precisely because he wants nothing to do with him. And, more accurately, nothing to do with the Scott Boras Freak Show. For those that say the new rules diminish the Boras-factor -- could not disagree more. If Rodon was in a class of his own, with no warts (and I don't think either of these things are NOW true), and you had the opportunity to draft Rodon at 1-3, then you do it and deal with Boras the best you can. But, there are other options. Good options. Hahn is an attorney. There's this concept known as "negligence per se" ... meaning, more-or-less, negligence so very obvious it's universally recognized as negligence. A franchise who rarely has a shot at a #3 pick who then hitches their wagon to the Boras Mule ... man, if that isn't negligence per se, I don't know what is. Boras could be a thorn in THREE (3) related, but conceptually different ways: 1 -- Demanding 1-1 money (or more) at 1-3 ... and if the Sox don't pay, they lose the pick when he goes back to school (getting next year's #4 pick is NOT a valuable consolation prize in my world). 2 -- Same as above, but the Sox pay. And paying 1-1 at 1-3 seriously impacts signability and overslot candidates for the rest of their draft. 3 -- THIS ONE CONCERNS ME THE MOST -- with Scott Boras in charge, you have absolutely zero future chance of locking in a quality young arm long-term as they've done with Sale and Q ... and as the Sox need to do going forward to compete financially. Personally, whenever I think of this draft, I assume there is NO Rodon. Since the Sox (IMO) want no part of all of his baggage, he may well as not exist. So, best case for the Sox is that he goes 1-1 or 1-2, then they're getting the SECOND pick in THEIR universe, choosing from amongst Kolek, Aiken, Hoffman, or even Jackson (I know that he's a Boras guy too ... but very different situation), LESS whichever one of the above is off the board. Can't wait for this draft already!!! It seems to me that many here are forgetting that Boras' ultimate goal is to make the most money for his client -- it is NOT to create ultimate chaos. Boras is not a villain who is trying to trick teams into failure. He's just trying to maximize the dollars. It also seems like many forget that the player has ultimate decision. Boras will attempt to convince the player one way or the other, but there are plenty of guys who won't turn down $6m for the shot at $8m or whatever. The player is the one that assumes the risk. If Rodon goes three and decides not to sign for a penny less than #1 slot value, he took some bad advice. Boras is smart man who gets what he wants most of the time. If he jerked teams around, gave bad advice, and exploited clients, he wouldn't keep getting new business.

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ May 2, 2014 -> 02:58 PM) Why Beckham in the 2 hole? The universe is a mysterious place

lol Marty. Are denying that you've been calling for us top sign practically every major free agent that has been on the market over the last few years? As we've all explained nigh 8000 times, no one is against the concept of acquiring elite free agents in general. Our problem with your recommendations is (1) that you tend to want to buy whoever is available, whether they're really worth it or not. All free agent classes are NOT created equal, and (2) that you are ignoring the fact that signing someone to a multi-year deal today means they are still on the payroll in the future. Yes, you can sign more than one big one, but really only a few. Ubaldo Santana wouldn't kill us this year, but when you want to add another couple players next year, all of a sudden we're getting close to maxed out for the next 5 or 6 years -- hopefully they are all defying aging curves and hopefully we guessed right that we'd need them. The reality is that FAs pay their maximum value upfront, and so you need to time their acquisition with when you need them most. Sign them when they are the final pieces.

QUOTE (LDF @ May 2, 2014 -> 10:23 AM) but the subtraction of players now in the majors will indeed drop the rank. yeah we will improve via the draft. not enuf in the short term. I disagree. Who will lose rookie eligibility? Semien, probably. Leury for sure. EJ might not at this point. Davidson probably won't at this pointAvisail had already lost it. It may be only Semien in the top 5.

QUOTE (LDF @ May 2, 2014 -> 10:10 AM) when a farm is ranked from #20-25 and some of those prospect graduate. I wonder what the ranking is going to look like now I expect it to continue to improve with a strong draft. This is the highest we've picked in a long time, and we are committed to spending competitively like never before.

QUOTE (LDF @ May 2, 2014 -> 10:29 AM) I was trying to find the write up about Cleuluis Rondon in the future sox top 25 prospects... is it there? what is the prospect details on him? Until his good start this year, he didn't even have enough bat to rank. A full good year should, I imagine, get him on the radar for next year for sure.

QUOTE (LDF @ May 2, 2014 -> 10:25 AM) I respect what is being said by you guys, but why would they look at a prospect ranked from #14-19, unless they want to save slot money and/or they didn't want to deal with a possible hard sign. I think it's because things can still change. The reason guys fly up draft boards is because every team is checking on them and sometimes they decide they like a guy better than they did pre-season.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ May 2, 2014 -> 10:30 AM) Last year, a lot of posters wanted the Sox to tank to get the #1 pick. That pick at the time was Rondon. If somehow an uninjured Rondon is available at #3 and the Sox draft someone else so they have a few extra dollars to sign someone not so highly thought of, to me would be the biggest waste of draft position. Do you pass on Chris Sale so you can get Gavin Floyd and Jared Mitchell? Of course not, but it's not solely a money issue. If he falls to 3, it's because he's a worse asset than he was this time last year. Posters were drooling over #1 Rodon, not #3 Rodon.

Also, to be fair, Marty did TOTALLY ask for this lol QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 30, 2014 -> 07:19 PM) I did not write the quote you attributed to me SS2K5 and according to the guidelines of this site "You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this bulletin board to post any material which is knowingly false."

QUOTE (LDF @ May 2, 2014 -> 09:38 AM) If the sox didn't like what may avail at #3 (ref signability) they may select a lower rated player and come to a predraft agreement with him and his camp. this has been done before with the sox and past draft #1. That being said, if the right pitcher is not there and Hoffman concerns, I would like alex Jackson c/of. Any thoughts??? Yeah, that's plausible, but I don't see it happening with us this year. Two of Rodon, Aiken, Kolek, and Jackson will be available. If it was only Hoffman (assuming the injury risk remains), Nola, and Beede, I could see them possibly reaching for an underslot choice.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ May 2, 2014 -> 09:15 AM) Rondon will be in the White Sox top 10 prospects if he keeps this up won't he? QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 2, 2014 -> 09:22 AM) I would say whoever they draft automatically assumes the #1 prospect in the White Sox system. I think you dudes are thinking of different dudes.

QUOTE (shakes @ May 2, 2014 -> 08:44 AM) Did you just post something knowingly false? According to the guidelines of this site "You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this bulletin board to post any material which is knowingly false." Can I get an admin ruling on this? lol

Yeah, that's the point: you build a core out of the (hopefully) 25% or so guys you can get to pan out via draft/int'l/trades, you develop a few solid role players internally, and THEN you make a splash or two on the FA market to fill in the gaps. Now you've spent your big bucks where you know you needed it most and you minimized your risk. What you DON'T do is "sign a bunch of dudes just in case your team turns out good because you have a low payroll anyway." This is the Marty model, and it is prone to collapse because you're (1) committing to assets that you're guessing you'll need beforehand, (2) paying market elite prices for "best available" player instead of truly who is worth because you're spending just because you HAVE the money rather than whether you SHOULD spend it, and (3) assuming massive amounts of risk long-term by limiting the liquidity of the players you have, thus being extremely prone to decline and injury. The former method takes some patience but pays dividends for years to come once in place, the latter is a hail mary that can trash your hopes for years to come if you miss.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 1, 2014 -> 08:34 PM) The Dodgers lost $80 million last year. That's insane

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ May 1, 2014 -> 07:08 PM) Keith Law stated on Buster Olney's podcast (today's edition) that he thinks the White Sox will select Erick Fedde with the third pick right now. Said Hoffman's elbow pain is worrisome and will cause him to drop. That would be an ultra disappointing selection. Law did not say it with any sort of confidence, however. But I can understand Hoffman over Rodon if the medicals check out on Hoffman, but Fedde over Rodon would be disappointing. http://m.mlb.com/video/v31229355/draft-rep...college-pitcher Everything I've seen on him has him going in the mid-teens.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 1, 2014 -> 06:52 PM) Would you take Tanaka on the Sox right now for what the Yankees paid for him? If not, why not? I probably would now, but I had to sit and think about it for a second. This is given our relatively low salary commitments and the fact that the Sox would probably NOT re-sign him to a mega-contract if he stayed this good and opted out, meaning we'd get him at 3/60 or whatever, with a real chance to compete in that third year. Still a big risk, though. An injury over the next 3 years could make him a massive albatross overnight. His age at least makes him less of a risk to lose velocity, though, and thus simply become ineffective like so many older SPs on long deals. EDIT: Also, it's difficult to predict how much higher another team would have had to go to BEAT the Yankees offer, especially one coming off a 99 loss season and committed to some form of rebuild.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ May 1, 2014 -> 05:17 PM) The Yankees don't care because they have more money than they know what to do with and they know the best way to increase franchise value is to win. Besides, the damage a bad contract can do is vastly overstated. I know WHY they did it, I'm just saying that it's not hard to believe the Sox FO when they say they were a legitimate player on him, because the richest team in the sport had to bend over completely to win the bidding. I would not have expected (or even wanted) the Sox to have BEAT that offer, especially before we knew if he was for real.

The thing to remember about the Tanaka contract is that it's a very bad contract. He gets $20m/yr up front and then has an opt-out after three years. If he pitches well at ALL then he's gone or you have to give him a bigger contract, if he's hurt or sucks, the Yankees are on the hook for an elite-level salary. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't blame the White Sox for not beating that contract, especially considering what an unknown he was then versus now. It was a desperate play.

Personally, I don't see any reason why this team should lose any more games this year. And because I think they'll win out, I don't think they'll be buyers at the deadline because why would they need anything if they just won like 60 games in a row? In fact, they'll likely need to sell off excess talent.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 30, 2014 -> 07:19 PM) I did not write the quote you attributed to me SS2K5, but according to the guidelines of this site "You agree, through your use of this service, that you will frequently use this bulletin board to post material which is knowingly false."

QUOTE (LDF @ Apr 30, 2014 -> 01:23 PM) you made it sound as moving a player to another position so he can play was a silly move. all I kept on saying is baseball teams do it a lot. move player to other position due lack of fielding, to take advantage of his bat, to develop him for a position which may not have prospects. you mention that it was silly ...... I never mention moving him back to 3b ..... that is the best I can remember. It's not silly in a vacuum, but there are two things about how teams usually do it that are important: (1) it's nearly always to an easier position, and (2) it's almost never done until they're absolutely sure it needs to be done Nearly all of the exceptions to this rule come when there's a roster crunch, and those are most often considered temporary moves. So, the fact that Ravelo was moved down the spectrum at such a young age is probably indicative that they think he really seriously can't cut it at third, or else they'd have given him much more time to improve.

QUOTE (Tex @ Apr 30, 2014 -> 12:59 PM) And we've told you that a gazillion times.