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QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 14, 2013 -> 04:50 PM) Why would that give us a .500 team only? With the Sox pitching? I thought pretty much all we had to do was fix the everyday lineup and the Sox are golden cause of the current pitching. My simple suggestion there could work wonders and the draft is just a bonanza. And we could substitute some other catcher for AJP on the free agent market if u want to go younger there. Curtis Granderson would be a substantial defensive downgrade in the OF of a team that has been among the worst defensive teams in the Majors. At the plate, at this stage of his career, he is REMARKABLY similar to your favorite player Adam Dunn. Last year's numbers: .232/.319/.492 with a 28.5% strikeout rate, good for an identical 116 wRC+. Like Dunn, he would actually be best suited as a DH rather than be a -18.1 UZR CF for us, but we already have an Adam Dunn at DH. Unlike Dunn, he has been increasingly injury prone -- having both knee and wrist problems. Brian McCann (who I'm using to replace AJP) is also injury prone, having spent substantial time on the DL in both of the last two years, and will need to spend increasing time at 1B/DH in order to stay in the lineup consistently now that he's approaching 30, where we already have Adam Dunn and hopefully Jose Abreu. Any at bats he gets outside of his part-time catching duty will be removing at bats from Abreu/Dunn, thus minimizing his overall value added by negating the value of the other best bats in the lineup. And this is assuming that Jose Abreu is an immediate, impact contributor. If anything other than 90% of the best case scenario happens, either because he isn't as good as we hope or because he needs time to adjust, his contribution is mitigated further. Consider the playing time crunch, I'd guess the combined impact of McCann/Abreu, assuming both are healthy, would work out to be about the same as if we had a full, healthy productive season from Konerko this year. So what do you have? 2013 White Sox except with worse defense and if Paul Konerko was his old self. Is that the difference between 100 losses and contention? This is also assuming Garcia is able to to recreate Rios' production and that Beckham's improvement is real, thus making up for the unlikely hot streak we enjoyed from Gillaspie while Beck was on the DL. Does that still seem like a prudent use of resources, considering that you'd be stuck with all those players for years as they get worse, Abreu notwithstanding?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 14, 2013 -> 04:36 PM) No problem. I can handle it. My point is a lot of people repeat themselves over and over, not just me. I may stress my disdain for Dunn and Rios and love for Paulie; others repeat themselves on other topics as well. This is true -- unfortunately there's just not a lot to talk about when the teams is embarrassing every night and we're past trade season.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 14, 2013 -> 04:37 PM) True, but I also would prefer we sign Jose Abreu and Grandy and AJ and voila, we gots a very good team again (on paper). And that's not even talking about the MLB Draft. If that would actually work, then we would all want that to happen. As it is, if everything broke our way, that would give us a .500 team that we would have to watch get gradually worse for 4 years until the contracts all expire and we can try to make serious moves again. Or, we can do it the right way now, and get a chance to compete some time this decade.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 14, 2013 -> 04:30 PM) I was told posts like these are jokes, making people have fun with the season. So I'll take it that way. I just don't see the same joke over and over as being that funny. Then spend less time reading Soxtalk. It's half joke, half us trying to find solace in a silver lining. If it's not how you cope with this s***hole season, then stop reading it.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 14, 2013 -> 04:10 PM) As a fan, I can't write off seasons. I can't write off any game. Going .500 would mean ALOT more happy summer days for me. It's not an occasional win. Now, after the season? I'm not thrilled with .500, but like I said, I'd rather go .500 than get the No. 1 pick in the draft. That would probably mean my team sniffed the playoffs at least and I had an interesting summer following baseball. Who cares about the draft? It's an inexact science. They aren't going to suddenly say we can't have a first-round pick. Give me a first-round pick and I'm good with that. As a fan, I care about f***ing championships. I like when the Sox when games solely because it gets them closer to the playoffs. You can enjoy rooting for your .500 seasons, I'm going to root for chance to get back to the World Series.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 14, 2013 -> 03:48 PM) Soxtalk ... where people inexplicably care about the crapshoot called the baseball draft.You may think I'm crazy. But I'd rather finish .500 than get the No. 2 pick in the draft. I.Don't.Care. Good for you Greg, the rest of us don't care about fourth place.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Aug 14, 2013 -> 03:47 PM) Jeter Completely unrelated, but it's funny how much everybody adores Jeter for being such a stand up guy, when the truth is that he's too much of a prima donna to even consider the idea of playing another position -- despite the fact that he's been a bad defender for years. As his career winds down into the "constantly injured" phase, the only place they'll be able to stick him is DH, even though he could probably help them by filling in in other places where they have a need and his poor range would be less of a detriment.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 14, 2013 -> 02:23 PM) And yet Frank's OPS+ was just a touch better that year . Yeah, interesting that Frank got noticeably more value out of his power. Which makes sense, as typically a point of OBP is "worth" more than a point of SLG.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 14, 2013 -> 02:09 PM) Not insanity, just doing stuff that Frank Thomas did years ago. Exactly. Insanity Interesting comparison actually. As of today (110 games), his season looks a LOT lot Frank's 1994 (113 games), which was by far Frank's best season. Cabrera is just a touch better today, 209 vs. 205 wRC+

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 14, 2013 -> 02:04 PM) Konerko not in the line up today... Does it mean anything? Robin said just a day off, but... I highly doubt it. After seeing what Rios brought, I can't imagine Konerko would bring anything except the relief of the $3m he's still owed, and it really just doesn't make sense to dump him for that at this point.

QUOTE (KG#1 @ Aug 14, 2013 -> 01:59 PM) I hate how much I love Miguel Cabrera. That dude is amazing at hitting a baseball. 209 wRC+. Literally more than double as productive as a league average hitter. Insanity.

QUOTE (Noonskadoodle @ Aug 14, 2013 -> 01:57 PM) Or dont walk him..... 3-3 Plink

I'm glad we've come up with Avi Garcia. Saying Avisail all the time was never gonna work.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Aug 14, 2013 -> 11:50 AM) I'd rather choose death than select anyone on that second list as "exciting". You can make an argument that DEATH should have made the second list before both Jared Mitchell and Keenyn Walker, at least.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 14, 2013 -> 10:36 AM) I threw that in there just for you while ignoring the other details how the Sox ended up with the bases loaded.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 14, 2013 -> 10:22 AM) Oh, I know...and as you probably also know by now, I am one of Dunn's bigger supporters here. I'm merely pointing out that what seems like a simple decision on paper doesn't always work out like everyone thought it would. Look at it this way...Dunn had about as consistent of a career as one can produce in the mlb for a prodigious run producer. There was a lot more there to go off of than Abreu. And we all know what's happened. Just pointing out some of the risk in the path that everyone seems to be advocating. Well said. Risk indeed.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 13, 2013 -> 10:56 PM) Isn't this pretty much the same reason we signed Dunn? Yes, but that idea was good on paper. It wasn't like the plan was to spend a lot of money to sign a guy whose career would instantly implode.

I loved that walk from Garcia more than I loved the triple. The situation called for a baserunner above all else and he took four close but definitely out of the zone pitches. Very good night for him.

I think it's Sale by a lot.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 13, 2013 -> 03:15 PM) Everyone above him has played at least 5 seasons more than him. He can make a mockery of the records. Jackson 2597 k 11,418 plate appearances Thome 2548 k 10,313 plate appearances Sosa 2306 k 9,896 plate appearances Dunn 2159 k 7,668 plate appearances Those guys are still all from an era where K rate was substantially lower.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 13, 2013 -> 03:05 PM) Exactly. There is a shift for every hitter. It's just not as extreme, except for Ted Williams. Check out his numbers. Dunn is only 438 ks away from being the all time leader. In an era where strikeouts are, overwhelmingly, at an all-time high across both leagues.

QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Aug 13, 2013 -> 03:00 PM) Oh, well I'm sure the shift has affected his AVG (and thus his OBP and SLG), but at this point in his career, his HOF ticket is more or less his home run total. I would argue that his HOF tickets was ALWAYS more or less his homerun total.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 13, 2013 -> 02:54 PM) Soler's name hasn't been mentioned recently in this discussion... How much better is this guy compared to him? 1) Soler was viewed as at least 2 but possibly 3 years away (versus those who felt Viciedo and Cespedes were within a year of the majors at the time/s they signed) 2) Soler was viewed as having HUGE power...40+ homers, etc. 3) Soler was never perceived as anything but a corner OFer/DH (possibly 1B, but not with Rizzo entrenched there) I think it's hard to compare them -- Soler is 21

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 13, 2013 -> 02:21 PM) A lot of the things I say on here come true. But only Dick Allen has pointed that out on occasion for me. As far as Dunn and Rios. Yes they are my whipping boys for this pathetic baseball team. And yes, Paulie's dropoff has hurt the team just as much. I guess I give Paulie more wiggle room because he had 4-5 really good years in a row. Dunn pretty much was the worst player in the history of mankind for a long long time in Sox uniform. What's the lowest he got that one year, .145, .150? You seem to think that our players can simply will themselves to good numbers.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Aug 13, 2013 -> 01:54 PM) I guess the Sox didn't get it either since they traded him away. They rather save the money and upgrade the minors and hope L. Garcia can develop in an area of need by the time Alexei's numbers go down furthur. That's all there is to get. Spending an extra $20M isn't money well spent on a rebuilding team, it's that simple. So I guess we both don't understand the others point. That extra $20M might come in handy for Abreu or others like him who pop up. I think that if they hadn't already cleared so much salary, it might be mroe valuable to get Dunn's off the books. However, since they are already way down -- the could afford giving $20m a year to a guy like Abreu if they wanted, not saying they should -- they might as well hold Dunn and wait for an opportunity to move him at higher value.