Eminor3rd

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 12:38 PM) Jose Fernandez far and away is their best pitcher... This thread only proves there is really no good options that 1) aren't too expensive, like Choo or Ellsbury, 2) are capable of hitting both lefties and rights, and 3) aren't too old. Agreed

Johan Cruz!

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 08:13 AM) One season with an OPS+ over 100. I stick by my post. If you're going to go with OPS+, you might as well go all the way. He had 16 WAR over 9 seasons -- basically a league average player. Kozma over 399 PA? 1.8 WAR. That's basically the same thing, except of course, that he hasn't even tallied 600 PA in his career.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 08:11 AM) Phegley looks good. Of course 3 or 4 games into this season, Flowers looked like an all star. Hopefully, Phegley can keep Flowers glued to the bench. Yeah. I mean he's proven that he can barrel up first pitch fastballs over the center of the plate. I can't hold my breath until I see him hit when pitchers have a better plan for him. Not trying to be cynical.

I don't see Johnson as a top 50. I think he belongs in the top 100 next year though, if he maintains this performance.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 9, 2013 -> 09:15 AM) Honestly, from that list...Ellsbury is too expensive and a pipe dream, Pence would be a good veteran leader for our team and role model (but why would a SF Giant want to play on a rebuilding team except for money, and that's not Hunter Pence from everything I've read)... McLouth is not someone you want to invest millions in. Cruz has the PED's allegations hanging over his head. The Cardinals are amazingly adept at knowing who to keep and who to jettison, and WHEN. If they let Beltran walk, there's a very good reason, and signing him to the type of money some big market teams will be able to throw at him, at his age, is foolhardy at best. Granderson and Pence are the ones who are making the most sense so far. Choo will also be way out of our price range. Honestly, if you combine our minor and major league operations, we're the WORST franchise in MLB right now....who would want to jump into that situation as a FA? 1. Granderson and Pence? Granderson is old, injury prone, bad defensively, and strikes out 25% of the time. Pence is a no-patience hack with a 6% walk rate and .309 OBP -- which is precisely what this team does not need. 2. Unquestionably, as you just defined it, the Marlins have to be the worst franchise in baseball. Especially now that they just gave away their best pitcher for salary relief despite already having a $30m payroll.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 05:26 PM) Not many busts hit 25 homers and drove in 80 last year. SOX are way, way, way better off keeping Tank around for another year before giving up on him. Despite those two cherry-picked numbers, his total offensive output amounted to 97 wRC+ last year -- making him a slightly below average hitter. I don't think he's a bust yet, but he sure sucks right now.

Basically, Parks really likes him, saw him at a DR showcase. Thinks he is already a top five talent in our system, thinks his hit tool is good enough that has a chance to be "more than an all or nothing power threat"

I think he's gotta be 10-20 until we can at least see SOMETHING from him. I'd typically like to leave him off altogether except that he's a showcase guy that a ton of media guys saw and they've universally been impressed.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 04:29 PM) Rios is only one I know where it almost came to blows. And Frank Thomas

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 04:26 PM) You could say its a fallacy, we will only truly know if he gets traded. Scouts reporting lack of effort and a big slump especially since neither are new and could last a while, doesn't help Hahn if he really wants to move him. I'm just saying it's a fallacy to compare then and now because there are an entirely different set of circumstances -- different GMs, teams, playoff rules, economic conditions, etc. You could be right that his trade value is low, but whatever it ends up looking like, it doesn't have anything to do with his trade value in 2009.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 8, 2013 -> 12:46 PM) When Rios came to the Sox, he was basically having the same year in Toronto that he is having now, and all the Blue Jays got for him was salary relief. The question will be do the Sox want to pay him to play here the rest of this year or next, because the return probably isn't going to be a highly rated prospect. This is a fallacy -- there are dozens of variables that are different now than back then. The two biggest are (1) the risk -- regardless of age, he is signed for 1.5 years with a team option now versus 5.5 before, and (2) the market -- he's the best OF available in a very thin market where there are more contenders and fewer sellers than ever before thanks to the second wild card.

I agree, DFA. Team sucks, less reason than ever to have Wise take Jordan Danks' role.

Rainout?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 5, 2013 -> 01:01 PM) Of course, there was also a 1.5 month period where Adam Dunn was trying to listen to the people who say "oh if only he'd try to swing earlier in the count, make more contact, and go the other way" and was abjectly terrible as a direct consequence. That is also impacting his runs created right now as well. Definitely. If you think his current streak is closer to average than hot, then that number will continue to rise in the coming weeks. Also, ML scouts will make the same determination.

We don't have to argue about whether or not the homers and RBIs make up for the strikeouts and low OBP and whatever -- that's why wOBA and wRC+ exist. wRC+ is park adjusted and league adjusted, and scaled so that league average is 100. This year, Adam Dunn currently has a 109 wRC+, which means when you add up all the good and all the bad, he's producing 9% better than a league average hitter. That is definitely something of value, but much worse than a typical AL 1B/DH. He could be very valuable to a contender that has a black hole at 1B or DH, but he isn't good enough to replace a decent player there.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2013 -> 10:12 AM) Then sign Granderson, Morales, Utley and McCann. BOOM, steak dinner! C McCann 1B Morales 2B Utley SS Beckham 3B Gillaspie LF Viciedo CF Granderson RF Rios (if he's not traded) DH Dunn Instantly competitive team, lol. Even then, you have to worry about Viciedo, Beckham's defense at SS and Conor repeating his 2012 performance (essentially being a 675-725 OPS type of player). All of those players are seriously injury prone and declining. That team could win, yes, if nothing goes wrong. But it could just as easily, possibly more likely, fail completely and then the franchise would be ruined for the next 4 years. THEN we'd be talking about Cubs/Astros rebuild where you're a disaster for 5 years while you eat bad contracts for useless players and maybe the team goes bankrupt from absolutely no one coming to games for an extended period of time. We have to do this right. We have to be patient. It will only be a year or two at this point.

QUOTE (bbilek1 @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 01:02 PM) I liked him a lot after he first started getting attention and then he just tanked this year. Drafted out of HS, He went from 23% K ratio in Rookie Ball/2011, 22% in A-Ball/2012 and then balooned to 36.98% in High-A this year. He has shown great on base skills throughout and his defense has been getting better by year and could very well stay at short. Colvin could have made sense too but not anymore with Fowler going on the DL yesterday. In fact I would have loved a package including Story and Colvin. Story's stock has definitely dropped, but the Rockies glut of middle infielders matches up well with our lack. I'd much rather have Arenado or Dahl but I just don't think it's going to happen.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Jul 5, 2013 -> 06:25 AM) If the White Sox were to make a trade with the Rockies I would like to see them acquire David Dahl, who reminds me a lot of Grady Sizemore and even Mike Trout. http://mlb.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20...62&c_id=col Dahl would be great, but I don't think the Rockies will give him up for a Peavy fresh off the DL.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2013 -> 08:29 AM) Then good luck selling any season ticket to non-corporate clients.... We still have numerous other options in the trade market/s as well as off-season free agents. Look at it this way...following the M's model, are you better off giving Jordan Danks 250-300 at-bats in 2014 to prove he can't play everyday (the only position he'd fit with his skill set and limited power is CF, and he would be replaced by Thompson eventually)....or putting the likes of a Morse, Ibanez or Bay out there and then trying to flip them at the trade deadline for some prospects? This exact strategy is about to get Jack Z fired this offseason. No one is buying tickets now because the team sucks. Jason Bay isn't going to bring them back. The Sox need to get good as soon as possible to bring ticket sales back. Giving at bats to old, bad players instead of developing young, high-upside players will only slow this process down. No one will come see a 65 win team just like no one will come see a 70 win team just like no one will come see a 75 win team.

I don't get this Granderson thing. He's a super nice guy, I understand, but he's a defensive liability in CF, he strikes out nigh 200 times a year at this point, he can only hit righties, he's going to require an expensive multi-year deal, and he would block most of our best prospects from playing CF at the ML level. It's a bad fit.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 5, 2013 -> 08:26 AM) And yet we have to field a competitive team next year, to an extent, with some experienced veterans (hopefully who have experience playing in "winning" organizations) sprinkled in here and there. Having a veteran back-up for Flowers or Phegley (assuming they don't go after McCann) is advisable. They'll worry about a veteran back-up late in the offseason and pick up someone cheap. And that's only if they think the Flowers/Phegley combo is totally incompetent. If you aren't going balls out to win, you need your young guys to play so they can turn into Major Leaguers. Giving Olivo a ton of playing time does nothing but make you bad now and stop you from improving.

Does anyone else sorta wish Jim Thome could just be the GM? No one could resist the charm -- I bet he could fleece people all over the world. Contract negotiations, trade discussions, you name it. He could just show up to the meeting with a bucket of chicken wings and a jolly disposition and get his way every single time.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 2, 2013 -> 03:30 PM) RICK I REALLY THINK YOU SHOULD TRADE FOR CARL We really, seriously are going to need a Jim Thome talking emoticon so we can type things in all caps and have people read it in Jim Thome's voice. Can someone do this?

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jul 3, 2013 -> 12:24 PM) I agree. I have actually grown fond of Rios. A better than league average right fielder and I don't think, statistically speaking, Hunter Pence comparisons are too far off base. I also think that, especially with the level of outfielders available and the general direction of the franchise that the Sox absolutely must trade Rios this deadline. Rios is the best OF on the market right now. I don't think there's any question that he will not be around for the next contender, and so we need to take advantage of the fact that his value will never be higher.