Eminor3rd

Catch-all thread pl... wait. Nevermind.

It's absolutely fallacy to act like prospect trades can be evaluated in hindsight. You're trading for probabilities. You're trading for guys who do NOT have the skills to be successful and hoping that they develop those skills. It's the FO job to pick guys that they have reason to believe will flourish in its own system, but sometimes guys just bust for no good reason. If a FO gets them wrong too much, the FO gets fired. If you traded Sale for all those guys at the time it would have been a haul, and looking back it would still be a haul. Eric Hosmer in 2010 is NOT the same thing as Eric Hosmer in 2013.

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/06/whit...n-veterans.html

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jun 20, 2013 -> 06:19 PM) You still have to show up. He's damaged goods. You will not get much for him right now. Absolutely, he is currently injured. But you said, "the only thing Peavy has excelled at is going on the DL," and that is wrong.

If you trade Axelrod, all you're gonna get back are a couple guys who have a shot at becoming the next Dylan Axelrods.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Jun 20, 2013 -> 05:40 PM) I brought it back because I asked why nobody was ragging on Konerko. Then I realized that strikeouts are worse then every other out because they look worse. Then I stopped posting about it. No one's ragging on Konerko because he's a had a fantastic and fairly consistent career of like 15 years and he just sucks now because he's 37, always injured, and generally cooked. His career is ending, that's all. Dunn is like 31 and signed a huge deal with us only to immediately suck. Way different.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 20, 2013 -> 03:39 PM) http://sports.yahoo.com/news/jim-leyland-w...-181600768.html If the Tigers are realistically looking at Joba Chamberlain, we might as well trade them Reed/Crain/Lindstrom, etc. Crain and Lindstrom, yes, but I don't want to give them someone who is going to beat us for the next 3-4 years in Reed.

I typically think the manager doesn't mean as much as most people do, but I do blame Robin for the poor defense. I really thought he did a great job drilling the team on it last year -- they made such a huge point to mention how the Sox were the only team taking infield before every game -- that I really don't think there's any excuse for them to be so bad this year. More practice. If you play like Bush leaguers, you gotta work to get better.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jun 20, 2013 -> 01:54 PM) Notable things: Konerko hit a homerun, Viciedo gunned Doumit out at home and Dunn just homered to make it back-to-back. Also, Danks has given up four homeruns today.

Notable things: Konerko hit a homerun, Viciedo gunned Doumit out at home

Dunn, Keppinger, and maybe De Aza, I think.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jun 20, 2013 -> 11:06 AM) A wise GM would give little to nothing for Peavy and make you pay part of his salary. They only thing Peavy has excelled at is going on the DL. You are wrong. Since coming off the DL in 2011, Peavy has produced 8.9 WAR over 407.2 IP at career-low walk rates. His 2013 performance has seen a substantially higher K rate when compared to last year's 3.37 ERA, 4.5 WAR performance despite identical walk totals.

Yeah I officially don't care if we win. I don't want us to get hot for a week and get just close enough to make no moves and be a 78 win team.

I didn't even consider watching this game. It feels so much worse even than the record.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 19, 2013 -> 06:12 PM) Why are you convinced his bat doesn't play at first? He had a 1.000 OPS in AA last season. He certainly isn't likely to do that in the big leagues, but if you get him you're hoping he looks like the guy that was on a 50 HR pace last year. So far in the Majors he's been .152/.250./.182. That's only 40 PA, but I've listened and read some commentary on BP and BA about his ultimate ceiling, and they say it isn't super high -- his value comes from being an advanced bat that is close to the majors and is a complete player at third base.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jun 19, 2013 -> 04:24 PM) Sox should just trade Alexei, Crain, and cash to the Tigers for Nick Castellanos. I can;t see any way the Tigers would trade us Castellanos unless the package included Reed.

I like the idea of Olt. I think he has been substantially overrated and I think the Rangers know that, so I think he might actually be attainable. A ton of his value comes from his solid defense at third, which would be great for us but is useless to the Rangers as long as Beltre is around. The bat doesn't play at first.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 19, 2013 -> 01:33 PM) So what you are telling me is that when they do good we dump them? When they are good and our team is bad, yes, that's what we should do. Especially when they are too old to be useful when the team might be good again.

You really want to sign Crain? What is he, 34? Guys... You know what make us different than the Astros, Marlins, and Cubs? Lack of long-term dead money committed. All three of those disastrous, long-term rebuild projects had to begin by sacrificing every shred of Major League talent for the sake of clearing dead money off the books. Drastic measures were required to clean it up and THAT's why they all have so far to go now to climb back up. THe White Sox do NOT have that problem. Nearly all of our dead money is off the books after next season in Dunn, Konerko, Thornton, and Floyd. Even Rios' contract turns to an option then. The only albatross we have at that point is Danks, who makes $15m. Alexei will be market rate. This is a massive advantage and this is why a rebuild is okay because it can begin and move quickly. The faster you get the core in place, the faster you can begin to complement it and get a winning team on the field. All the young talent we have can be a part of it, and we don;t have to wait forever for Alfonso Soriano or Carlos Lee to get off the books. The quickest way to lose that advantage is to sign more 34 year old veteran role players to market rate contracts to help our s*** team win 3 more games. Move those guys to get more potential core talent! Let's get this show on the road! No more lipstick on a pig -- we don't have to resign ourselves to a 6 year plan like the others because KW didn't screw us over like that.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 10:27 PM) Any hitter who has the projected ability to hit 20+ homers has to be the priority right now. Hawkins, Thompson, Barnum, you simply can't win with a "small ball" approach at USCF. The likes of Walker and Sanchez are complementary players, although Sanchez has a decent shot to be a starter in the middle infield. Where does this come from? You need good players, that's it. Players can contribute to run prevention and run production in a lot of ways. You need a team that can do it all. That doesn't mean you need every player to be the same

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 19, 2013 -> 09:51 AM) If this is the case I would argue that we keep Crain and sign him for a couple more years. He Jones and Reed, if we believe Addison is the answer to our closer need, can really solidfy that 7-8-9th inning close out of games. No, not at all. Relievers are universally volatile, especially when they have good years late in their careers. Crain is undoubtedly at his absolute best. It would be a very poor business decision to re-sign him after his career year.

It would be insane to sell low on Peavy for the sake of keeping Axelrod comfortable. This team's success is never going to hinge on Dylan Axelrod, now or in the next 5 years. He's better than replacement level, but he is absolutely not someone to keep you from maximizing a trade return on your most valuable trade chip. EDIT: This "awesome" season he's having has him on pace for 1.2WAR. That's not even league average. I like the guy too, but the Dylan Axelrod love is a bit out of control. The guy is striking out less than 5 per 9 while walking over 3.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 04:18 PM) Rios has a clause in his contract with 6 teams he can't be traded to along with is history of inconsistency plus his contract which isn't as bad as it used to be but still might be a detriment to some teams. I'm still looking to slash payroll there and wouldn't expect very much in return . Package him with Peavy in a whopper trade and we'll see. Rios' contract is good now. He's repeating his career year last year and is under contract for one more year plus an option at $12.5m per year. Over the past ten years, free agent market rates usually pay $5-7m per WAR. Rios is a 3-4 WAR OF being paid like a 2 WAR OF on a short term contract in which the second year is a team option.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 11:11 AM) Interesting if not ridiculous trade ideas here. Undervaluing our players because the Sox are slumping is not good baseball sense Who is being undervalued?

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 10:53 AM) If do a deal with Pittsburgh they have Jose Tabata. Not really a "build around" kind of player but comes with cost certainty & would give us a "plug-in" type should we trade Rios. BTW holy s*** at Jason Grilli's numbers. My GOD. Who saw that coming? We had him once ya know. Damn KW, should have been psychic & held onto him. He's just this year's Fernando Rodney, who was Jose Valverde the year before, who was Kyle Farnsworth the year before. These guys show up every year, and die, it seems.