Eminor3rd

Yeah I officially don't care if we win. I don't want us to get hot for a week and get just close enough to make no moves and be a 78 win team.

I didn't even consider watching this game. It feels so much worse even than the record.

QUOTE (Jake @ Jun 19, 2013 -> 06:12 PM) Why are you convinced his bat doesn't play at first? He had a 1.000 OPS in AA last season. He certainly isn't likely to do that in the big leagues, but if you get him you're hoping he looks like the guy that was on a 50 HR pace last year. So far in the Majors he's been .152/.250./.182. That's only 40 PA, but I've listened and read some commentary on BP and BA about his ultimate ceiling, and they say it isn't super high -- his value comes from being an advanced bat that is close to the majors and is a complete player at third base.

QUOTE (Dunt @ Jun 19, 2013 -> 04:24 PM) Sox should just trade Alexei, Crain, and cash to the Tigers for Nick Castellanos. I can;t see any way the Tigers would trade us Castellanos unless the package included Reed.

I like the idea of Olt. I think he has been substantially overrated and I think the Rangers know that, so I think he might actually be attainable. A ton of his value comes from his solid defense at third, which would be great for us but is useless to the Rangers as long as Beltre is around. The bat doesn't play at first.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 19, 2013 -> 01:33 PM) So what you are telling me is that when they do good we dump them? When they are good and our team is bad, yes, that's what we should do. Especially when they are too old to be useful when the team might be good again.

You really want to sign Crain? What is he, 34? Guys... You know what make us different than the Astros, Marlins, and Cubs? Lack of long-term dead money committed. All three of those disastrous, long-term rebuild projects had to begin by sacrificing every shred of Major League talent for the sake of clearing dead money off the books. Drastic measures were required to clean it up and THAT's why they all have so far to go now to climb back up. THe White Sox do NOT have that problem. Nearly all of our dead money is off the books after next season in Dunn, Konerko, Thornton, and Floyd. Even Rios' contract turns to an option then. The only albatross we have at that point is Danks, who makes $15m. Alexei will be market rate. This is a massive advantage and this is why a rebuild is okay because it can begin and move quickly. The faster you get the core in place, the faster you can begin to complement it and get a winning team on the field. All the young talent we have can be a part of it, and we don;t have to wait forever for Alfonso Soriano or Carlos Lee to get off the books. The quickest way to lose that advantage is to sign more 34 year old veteran role players to market rate contracts to help our s*** team win 3 more games. Move those guys to get more potential core talent! Let's get this show on the road! No more lipstick on a pig -- we don't have to resign ourselves to a 6 year plan like the others because KW didn't screw us over like that.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 10:27 PM) Any hitter who has the projected ability to hit 20+ homers has to be the priority right now. Hawkins, Thompson, Barnum, you simply can't win with a "small ball" approach at USCF. The likes of Walker and Sanchez are complementary players, although Sanchez has a decent shot to be a starter in the middle infield. Where does this come from? You need good players, that's it. Players can contribute to run prevention and run production in a lot of ways. You need a team that can do it all. That doesn't mean you need every player to be the same

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 19, 2013 -> 09:51 AM) If this is the case I would argue that we keep Crain and sign him for a couple more years. He Jones and Reed, if we believe Addison is the answer to our closer need, can really solidfy that 7-8-9th inning close out of games. No, not at all. Relievers are universally volatile, especially when they have good years late in their careers. Crain is undoubtedly at his absolute best. It would be a very poor business decision to re-sign him after his career year.

It would be insane to sell low on Peavy for the sake of keeping Axelrod comfortable. This team's success is never going to hinge on Dylan Axelrod, now or in the next 5 years. He's better than replacement level, but he is absolutely not someone to keep you from maximizing a trade return on your most valuable trade chip. EDIT: This "awesome" season he's having has him on pace for 1.2WAR. That's not even league average. I like the guy too, but the Dylan Axelrod love is a bit out of control. The guy is striking out less than 5 per 9 while walking over 3.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 04:18 PM) Rios has a clause in his contract with 6 teams he can't be traded to along with is history of inconsistency plus his contract which isn't as bad as it used to be but still might be a detriment to some teams. I'm still looking to slash payroll there and wouldn't expect very much in return . Package him with Peavy in a whopper trade and we'll see. Rios' contract is good now. He's repeating his career year last year and is under contract for one more year plus an option at $12.5m per year. Over the past ten years, free agent market rates usually pay $5-7m per WAR. Rios is a 3-4 WAR OF being paid like a 2 WAR OF on a short term contract in which the second year is a team option.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 11:11 AM) Interesting if not ridiculous trade ideas here. Undervaluing our players because the Sox are slumping is not good baseball sense Who is being undervalued?

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 10:53 AM) If do a deal with Pittsburgh they have Jose Tabata. Not really a "build around" kind of player but comes with cost certainty & would give us a "plug-in" type should we trade Rios. BTW holy s*** at Jason Grilli's numbers. My GOD. Who saw that coming? We had him once ya know. Damn KW, should have been psychic & held onto him. He's just this year's Fernando Rodney, who was Jose Valverde the year before, who was Kyle Farnsworth the year before. These guys show up every year, and die, it seems.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 09:44 AM) Who could have ever seen that coming. I love the idea of regression, because Nate Jones is probably about a 3.00-3.50 ERA pitcher with about a 1.2-1.3 WHIP who gets by based off of electric stuff. Based on his overall numbers, he's expected to come back to earth from that 1.38 ERA but he's also expected to keep it up, because he's not a 5.00 ERA pitcher. As a result, he's both pitching normally AND over his head at the same time. Yeah it just comes down to the myth that events are evenly distributed. People see a 3.00 ERA pitcher and expect him to give up precisely 3 runs during each 9 inning set that he pitches, when that's just not true. All sports (probably all performances in general) are made up of hot streaks and cold streaks.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 09:37 AM) Meanwhile, Nate Jones has put up a 1.38 ERA, 0.85 WHIP, 12.5 K/9, 18 K/BB, and a .506 OPSa in his last 10 appearances, 13 IP. Indeed! http://www.soxtalk.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=88772

QUOTE (MaggsOrdonez @ Jun 18, 2013 -> 08:26 AM) Unless Crain suffers a devastating breakdown/injury he will likely be traded. I'd like to see us get at least a near-ready prospect and another with a couple years to go. Maybe a trade with the Red Sox for Xander Bogaerts and Garin Cecchini? rofl

BP with an updated scouting report: http://www.baseballprospectus.com/a/20924#hawkins

Crain to the Orioles July 12th

Thanks for posting this, I was sorta wondering if there was a game tonight.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 17, 2013 -> 02:37 PM) The best comparison I can come up with off hand for a Rios deal is Hunter Pence for Seth Rosin, Tommy Joseph, and Nate Schierholtz last deadline. Rosin and Joseph look like mediocre prospects (though highly drafted, 4th and 2nd rounds respectively) and Schierholtz left in free agency to the Cubs (and is having a great year). All I'm going to say is that dealing Rios is risky. His contract is much better. Teams getting him will get an additional year plus an option year at slightly below market rates for a 3-4 win OF. That's substantially more valuable than a 2 month rental. Meanwhile, keeping him will just a dd a few wins to our garbage year. If we're going to be bad for a couple years, I want to be able to watch some players develop -- that's the only thing that will keep any interest for any of us.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jun 17, 2013 -> 01:10 PM) If Ventura was actually doing any of this, I could agree with you. The team isn't. The White Sox expanded their payroll by somewhere in the range of $20-$30 million this year depending on how the bookkeeping is done. What is really happening is they tried to field another competitive team this year and it has absolutely blown up in an explosion of stupid play, poor focus, poor preparation, and a few injuries to boot. This is important, I think. This team isn't great, but it SHOULD be better. Much like they played close to their peak potential most of last year, they are playing close to their floor so far now. It's been a .500ish team in true talent for a couple years, IMO.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 17, 2013 -> 01:38 PM) I have to admit I also hate watching them. I've been a Sox fan forever and I know bad baseball is better than no baseball, but I pretty much can't take our anemic offense. I guess it's because it has been the same for so long. The difference is this year we can't even hit enough home runs to win home games. I have no desire to turn on my mlb.com and watch the Sox fail to hit and lose so many close games. It all started with that Cub series. The team just sucked so badly. It's hard to watch. Same. I still start with every game but I'm finding myself slip away to do something else earlier and earlier. At first I felt guilty, like a fairweather fan or whatever, but the reality is that watching them just puts me in a bad mood. It's a frustrating end to my day, so I go find something else to unwind with.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jun 17, 2013 -> 02:17 PM) I also hate to say this, but trading Jesse Crain right now is a great idea. He isn't going to last like this all season, and will return to the mean. Let someone else deal with that. Yes, this is the case with all hot relievers aside from the absolutely elite, I think. Towers acquired a ton of talent selling off his bullpen every year in SD for a while. RPs just don't last, they are volatile commodities. Crain will never be more valuable.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jun 17, 2013 -> 01:47 PM) Home runs are fun, definitely, but I think Dunn is almost an exception to that rule. He's been so lousy that just seeing him stride to the plate is buzzkill. Am I in the minority on this? I just think Dunn is about the worst player in White Sox history and I hate seeing him walk to the plate. If there are any Dunn fans out there, I stand corrected. Man, how soon we forget Mark Kotsay and his 85% groundout-to-2B rate.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/forget-jona...et-jesse-crain/