Eminor3rd

I don't understand the tweener mentality -- it seems like most of you want to see the Sox go into 2013 with a marginally worse team. If you think it's a lost cause, fine, but then why not blow it up? I say shore it up or tear it down.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 06:46 PM) You have to be kidding me. I guess we don't have holes at: 3B C UTIL RP SP (depending on options) He fills in 1 hole, for the amount of money we probably have to fill all 5. You can't magically create players in those positions. Who would you sign? Youkilis is the only thing resembling a decent 3B available in FA. AJ is the best FA C. You're joking if you think we should spend money on a UTIL or RP instead of a frontline starter.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Sep 28, 2012 -> 09:16 AM) I like most of your post but, 13 million for a .354 OBP? No thank you. There are many ways to get a .354 OBP and they don't cost 13 mil. Where?

Who cares?

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 03:13 PM) This team can't afford Grienke, he's a huge risk and would be very pricey. It'd be smarter to invest that money elsewhere. On what?

QUOTE (SOXOBAMA @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 04:58 PM) Cause of his age. I'd want him playing the field several days a week Wait, what? You want to DH him so he can play the field several days a week?

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 02:29 PM) Um, no. Lol, how is that the one thing in my post you passionately disagree with? For context, you only decline this option if you do the one major thing I posited, which is signing Greinke. Certainly, you can't have both of them.

QUOTE (knightni @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 02:27 PM) I think he was decent this year offensively except for batting average - better than the last few years. More walks, less Ks, more HRs, most career hits, most total bases. He is definitely above average defensively. Only 7 errors in 698 chances. .990 F%. Screw stats though, in opinion, mirite? 2011: .230/.296/.337, .284 wOBA, 70 wRC+, 4.9 UZR (1.0 WAR) 2012: .234/.296/.371, .292 wOBA, 77 wRC+, -0.1 UZR (0.8 WAR) His offense was just marginally better, and all of it due to his slugging (6 extra homers). Either way, it was drastically below average both years. I think the UZR is flukey though, as it is prone to be over a single season.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 02:14 PM) I'd personally try to trade him. He seems to need a change of scenery. If you can't get squat for him, keep him and be happy with his defense. I'd agree with you if we still had Escobar to replace him. As it is, our internal options could be disastrous. Though, if we could trade him for something half decent, I'd be okay with trying to extend Hudson's career for a year or two by offering him the job at $1m or so.

He's bad offensively, but above average defensively, and he won't make much in arbitration. It's okay to live with a couple black holes on offense if they at least play solid defensively. I think you have to keep him around because you have bigger concerns and limited resources.

QUOTE (La Marr Hoyt HOF @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 01:52 PM) $7mm for AJP? Buh-bye ... it's been fun While this is a very realistic outcome, the team will be mediocre again and would do nothing to make the team younger / closer to a WS.... Would completely re-build, keep Paulie around to retire here, keep a fan favorite. Get rid of Peavy, Youk, Dunn, Rios, Beckham, AJ, Gavin (dude is never going to be a winner) for whatever you can get back, even if you eat a bunch of their contracts, in the form of prospects / don't re-sign free agents like AJ. Keep DeAza and Dayan around, cheap fillers with some potential. Danks could be worth a lot at trade deadline next year, if healthy, keep him around unless a good off-season offer comes-in. Sign Sale to a real contract extension. Moneyball the rest of the line-up. Build for the future. 2013 is a lost cause... Trust me, I fall well into the 'rebuilder' side of fandom, but even I don't think this team needs to be completely dismantled. I do, however, think it needs to go one way or the other.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 01:43 PM) Definitely traded: Gavin Floyd Jessie Crain Matt Thornton Nontender/trade: Phil Humber On the block & heavily shopped for very good prospects/young 1st year MLB players: Alejandro DeAza Alexei Ramirez Heavily shopped as part of a deal for a team controllable, MLB-proven starting pitcher or starting position player: Addison Reed Hector Santiago Trayce Thompson Salary dump deal: Adam Dunn On the block for full salary relief + 1 good prospect/reclamation projects + 1 decent piece: Paul Konerko Alex Rios Definitely core pieces: Chris Sale Dayan Viciedo Gordon Beckham Jose Quintana Nate Jones John Danks Donnie Veal Tyler Flowers (if AJ isn't back) Try like hell to bring him back: Brett Myers as a setup man on a 2-year deal (makes it easier to trade Crain, closer insurance) Jake Peavy See what they have/No point in trying to move for obvious reasons: Leyson Septimo Brian Omogrosso Jhan Marinez Major (youth) targets in any deal/through the Rule-5/MiLB FA: Starting SS Starting 3B LH power hitter, wherever he plays Contact-based OF with power + range, wherever he plays I go into the offseason with this thinking process & see what I can get done. At the end, if I still have holes to fill that I kind fill with possible/probable 3-5 year window players, then I hunt for bargains on the FA market. I don't see the benefit of dealing cost-friendly Alexei and trying to find another SS. Even with his bat down, his defense is elite, and he is likely to have a substantially better season hitting next year, even if it doesn't match his peak.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 2, 2012 -> 01:37 PM) I was thinking it was better, but only a little. Kind of hard to find away to make it a lot better with the salary restrictions that I am guessing are there. Maybe they aren't, I don't really know. Honestly, another $10M to sign or trade for a serious 3B could make the team I built there a lot better than this year's. I personally think the starting pitching could improve a lot, when guys like Sale and Quintana don't hit a wall, and Danks is healthy. If you have Peavy or Floyd in there, and Santiago replaces Liriano, that seems like an improvement overall. And the bullpen should be more mature, and better. Sanchez improves your defense. The place you probably get worse though, is overall hitting replacing Youkilis/Hudson with Sanchez. Rios and AJ are likely to not have as good a year next year, but I think PK14, Beckham, Ramirez and Viciedo are all likely to do better for various reasons. Yeah, I'm just afraid that Quintana just flat out regresses. Sale will have more endurance though. I say you just keep Youkilis. I don't wanna pay $13m, but there's nothing better you can get for that money at the moment. Headley is about to get filthy rich. But right, the salary restrictions are the problem. I like the idea of trading Rios at peak value (maybe to the Giants?), but you have to replace that value too, unless you go for prospects and go into the season projecting another 84-ish win season.

1. Decline Peavy's option, make qualifying offer, collect draft pick 2. Decline Floyd's option, no qualifying offer 3. Exercise Youkilis' option (Morel sucks and the next best FA 3B is Ronny Cedeno) 4. Let AJ walk if he wants a market-rate deal (no chance he repeats this year), re-sign if a hometown discount. 5. Let Liriano walk, no qualifying offer 6. Go hard for Greinke 7. Try to bring back Brett Myers on something affordable --- 1. Greinke 2. Sale 3. Danks 4. Quintana 5. Santiago 1. Reed ® 2. Thornton (L) 3. Myers ® 4. Veal/Septimo (L) 5. Jones ® 6. Crain ® 1. De Aza 2. Youkilis 3. Dunn 4. Konerko 5. Rios 6. Viciedo 7. Ramirez 8. Flowers 9. Beckham Lose some dingers, gain a veteran, ace-type starter. The lineup still has big pop. We got lucky with the young pitching this year and can't expect it to repeat. I fear for Quintana, specifically. Reed will be better, though.

That's a realistic scenario, but that's a slightly worse team than this year.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Oct 1, 2012 -> 09:41 PM) Those walk are gonna decrease and most pitchers don't fear him. K's are disastrous with men on base especially if they are congruent with your batting average. Sp far he's exceed his career high K by 19 and I can guarantee you he's not done yet. But Sox fans are too fascinated with the home run. What's new? K's are less disastrous than GIDPs, and the #3 hitter has more opportunities to bat with no one on base and more opportunities to bat in double play situations than any other slot in the order - and it is thus valuable to have a #3 hitter that hits lots of homeruns and doesn't ground out. There has been a ton of research done on this: http://www.amazon.com/The-Book-Percentages...ywords=the+book You have absolutely nothing to base the "walks are gonna decrease because pitchers don't fear him" statement. He has excellent plate discipline and mashes taters when pitchers don't nibble. I'm not trying to be a jerk, but you're just making this stuff up and it's frustrating because there's so much incredible information out there that has been available for years.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Oct 1, 2012 -> 01:20 AM) I want one who can drive in runs, creates intentional walks, doesn't fan more than his average. HRs look nice on the back of baseball cards. Part of the problem is Kenny probably looks at the back of baseball cards to make decisions. What the **** are you talking about? How do homeruns not drive in runs? The guy leads the entire major leagues in walks -- who cares if they're intentional? Strikeouts don't kill rallies and more than popups and double play balls do.

No change necessary. This was a good team that choked like a bunch of bush leaguers, and I hate them for it. The front office put plenty of talent on the field to win the division.

You know why this season sucks? Because now I'm going to hate every second of the playoffs instead of enjoying them like last year, and now KW/RH are goin to make 3 lateral acquisitions in the offseason, the team will be expected to compete, and it will blow. And it will be another wasted season. If you're going to win, then f***ing win. Bunch of f***ing s***ty babies.

No, f*** this season. f*** being in first the WHOLE DAMN TIME and losing it like a bunch of bush leaguers in the last 10 games. f*** baseball. Why don't you cry about attendance now, KW? You've made me miserable.

I don't think I'm going to watch this game. Too much misery.

f*** the white sox

I f***ing hate this team

I figure it's 50/50 that we win tonight. It's also 50/50 that the Tigers lose. That means there's a 25% chance that we'll get exactly what we want, a 25% chance of a complete disaster, and a 50% chance that we'll just tread water by staying tied.

I don't even know why I follow baseball. All this does is stress me out.