thxfrthmmrs

1st pick cap hold is $9.6M, so there isn't a way to max Klay unless we shred all salary besides our top 4 and not take any salaries back.

In a family where you’re only the second besss, yes

If your brother is named Yoan, it would be a disappointment if you were named Juan, just saying.

Did we sign Moncada’s brother to play catcher?

Given you want to use SV to measure trade value and we do not have the scaled SV calculations for each org, the publicly available info is all we could use. Can't have your cake and eat it too. As I said earlier, he produced 1.6 bWAR in 3 months on a $4.5M prorated salary. I do not have the expected WAR output, but as I said, according to "publicly available" WAR value, he had $30M in surplus value in the 1 1/2 years before the trade, and $10M in surplus value in the 3 months after the trade, so it's not like he jumped out of nowhere and produced. Point is you let him on as a zero or negative value player, that is far from the truth from SV perspective, no matter how scaled the team's calculations are.

At the time of trade, I believe it was $10M per WAR. SV calculations are flat by most outlets but even if you want to use your increasing marginal scale he was worth more between 3 - 3.5 WAR/yr from depending on whether it's FG or BR for 5 year span from 2013-2017. By no means we're talking a 1 WAR player being paid at $10M here. In the SV theory, $20M+ SV player do not grow on trees and are definitely not worth nothing. And on top of that, to say that Yankees could have "find a replacement that would have equaled his production, but cost less" is asinine considering how little they have given up.

I am not saying in you're wrong from a statistical perspective but there are many teams that are still willing to for those intangibles, therefore additional value. However, Miller and Hader also brought other intangibles to the table that WAR does not measure, ability to pitch in any situation and for multiple innings. Also please do explain how does a guy who had $30M in surplus value in the 1 1/2 years before the trade, and $10M in surplus value in the 3 months after the trade had no value, since you keep wanting to use SV as your argument?

1. That just isn't true. Case in point, a guy who could close games continues to get the ball in 9th inning. Closer experience is something surplus value doesn't measure. If I need a good reliever, I would opt for the guys with closer experience than the guy without, if everything else is equal. Similarly, whether how archaic it is, teams still pay for guys with playoff experience, clubhouse presence, and such. These things SV does not measure but are valuable at trade deadline, which is why DR and TF had more value than you let on. 2. You already lost the argument when you wanted to use SV as your argument but said Frazier had 0 or negative SV. But continue to conveniently ignore it.

Agreed with this. One example I would give is a 1.5 WAR closer with playoff experience on a $12 mil contract would be worth than a 1.5 WAR 7th inning RP with no PO experience on the same salary, especially around TDL. And if I were to consider team needs, I would potentially pay more for a 1.5 WAR closer with 0 surplus value than to pay for a 0.5 WAR reliever with the same surplus value.

I think you are discrediting what the Sox gave out. Frazier while was awful in BA still brought his value to the team, which is often overlooked due to his low BA as I mentioned. He had 5 bWAR in his year and half in his time with the Sox and over $15M in salary, pretty good surplus value if you want to use that measurement. While I was and still am realistic that no team was willing to pay a premium for his surplus value, to say that he was worthless is an overblown statement. His time with yankees? 1.6 bWAR on $5M salary. Robertson meanwhile did not provide much in the means of surplus value, but teams are willing to give up a valuable piece (B or B+ prospects) for a player who could close or pitch in high leverage. Kahnle had a good run with Sox and shown no signs of slowing down at the time. He could have been more valuable in the off season given 100 innings of track record of being an effective high leverage option. Also high sight is 20/20, but had he stayed with Sox in 2018, there is good chance he could have continued his success, given he could continue to work with Coop, and pitching in front of Sox crowd is a lot different than Yankees crowd in late game situation. What could have been was a 1.5+ WAR HL, cost controlled, reliever.

I, along with a few others, Shack, IIRC was disappointed by the return at the time for a couple of reasons - 1) expectation were high for a return since it was less than a week after the Q trade 2) value for premium relievers was at all time high after the Chapman trade and Andrew Miller success from prior years, even though Kahnle lacked the track record 3) red flags on Blake and his results in pro ball. Some outlets, I think KLaw had him off top 100 altogether. Those who were optimistic at the time feel like he could eventually develop into a plus hit and above average power tool, and get back into the top 100 or 50 conversation, which hasn't happened.

So did the yankees overpay then? According to you Frazier and Robertson are worthless (which isn't true, before the trade, most on this board thought they could at least get a B level prospect for Robertson alone), and Kahnle's value at the time was whatever he gave them, which is a 0 WAR worthless pitcher. But they actually gave us a Top 100 prospect for it? Sounds like a fleece to me.

Back of Top 100 value is a lot different than top 50 value like the OP was mentioning. Also he's in the back 100 due to his draft pedigree, if you were to evaluate based on tools, he wouldn't have been there. The knocks were a bat first player who hits too many ground balls, not enough power and doesn't draw enough walks. As the draft hype as worn off, you don't even see him inside most top 150 or 200 this season despite having a fairly solid 2018. That said I am not panicking on Rutherford, but I am also realistic that Sox did not get a top 50 or 100 value prospect in return despite trading out fairly decent value. Also the bold part cant be true. If they envisioned him having the same value he's given them, they wouldn't have acquired him in the first place.

You missed the part where most of the industry, including the Yankees, were down on Blake at the time of trade. His value had fell considerably from when he was drafted or even at the start of that season. Had he still been a top 50 prospect, Yankees wouldnt made him available. Yet Sox paid the price as if Blake was still a top 50 prospect, if not more. Hindsight is 20/20, but Kahnle at the time had a fair amount of trade value. What's crazy is Yankees still did not lose the trade even though Kahnle basically fell back down to earth. Had he been anything more, Yankees would have won by a landslide.

No guarantee he'd had the same success with Cooper. I was going to post this yesterday, but it's frustrating because our bullpen is a mess so far.

I know you’re staying on the positive side but your posts are extremely apologetic for this front office has done and ignoring an important fact. Fact is Sox plays in Chicago, not Tampa, not Milwaukee. Guess the Sox payroll in 2006 and 2007? Ranked 9th and 4th in entire league. The whole “payroll constraint” you’re referring to is a direct result by years of incompetence. Sox has not played competitive baseball for 6+ years now, and we’re left wondering why the payroll is shrinking. Let’s call a spade when we see one.

White Sox - traded a more valuable piece in Adam Eaton 2 1/2 years ago for 2 ML ready piece and another prospect and 2 1/2 years later still trying "develop" these 2 ML ready pieces. Rays - traded a declining pitcher for 2 ML ready piece and another prospect and are reaping off those pieces immediately. Call it better scouting, better player development, one is clearly a better ran organization, despite having to work with much less.

Anyone has the number of Tampa’s baserunners vs the Sox baserunners in this series? It’s gotta be embarrassingly bad at this point.

I could picture JR saying Don’s a great guy, he’s respected and has been here for almost 20 years. Let him ride it out here until he’s ready to hang it up.

It’s pretty clear Don Cooper hasn’t helped the young pitchers progress, in fact he hasn’t done so in the last 5 years. It’s time to look elsewhere but who are we kidding, JR is running this ship.

The lineup will never score enough runs as long as Don Cooper is still our pitching coach.

Given offer ends today, I'd create new MLB account and redeem offer from that account. I am pretty sure you could get the original subscription refunded within 30 days. Happened to me a few years back where I forgot to cancel renewal. I called and they gave me a refund within minutes.

I haven't seen this posted here, and no this isn't an April Fool's joke. There has been an ongoing T-Mobile promotion for any new or existing customers (3/25-4/1, so today is the last day) where you could redeem their offer on T-Mobile Tuesdays and get free MLB TV subscription for the year. Follow link below to login to your T-Mobile account and redeem. I'm not one of their customers but my wife is and I was able to redeem offer from her account. This could work with your family or friend's account as well. https://www.t-mobile.com/mlb Mods feel free to move thread to another forum.

I think trading Howard is absolutely the right thing to do, it's addition by subtraction. More of Davis/Cohen/rookie RB in Nagy's offense and less of Howard is going to make this offense better. That said. I think you could have held out for a better pick by trading him later, i.e. before start of camp, especially it's for a 2020 pick only.

Those other situations are also very sad. As long as Eloy puts up a 3 WAR seasons (as projected by many publications) and Palka shows any kind of improvement, we won’t be a bottom 5 OF.