The Sir

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 10, 2011 -> 08:13 PM) You know why companies are hurting, CEO's getting 8 figure bonuses, then go.. Opps we are hurting. We give tax breaks to companies, who then ship jobs overseas.. I see it in my business all the time. Its not the GOV job to figure out corp finance. And its both sides How about idiotic labor agreements like the one that is about to wreck the Postal Service? Yeah, I get that snail mail is a dying breed, but wasting several million a year on idle employees didn't help. You know what ships jobs overseas? That sort of idiotic labor agreement (hey, f*** dealing with Jimmy Hoffa and his goons, better to employ an eight year old in China!), high capital gains and payroll taxes, ever increasing minimum wages, the moronic demands of Obamacare, etc. CEOs taking s***loads of money and leaving is a crime. The government already has rules in place for that sort of thing. But that doesn't justify unrelated economic restrictions that discourage investment and hiring, and persuade companies to relocate and outsource jobs.

Seattle Muslims offended by FBI Outreach slide titled "State Sponsored Terrorism" which features a picture of Ayatollah Khomeini. Really? There might be good Muslims out there, but that s***head wasn't one of them. He was a state sponsor of terrorism, through and through. Those idiots need to relax. And why the f*** is the FBI concerned with outreach to Muslims? They need to quit pandering to all the "special people" out there and get back to their duties as the top federal law enforcement agency of this country.

To those of you not turning on your TVs tomorrow, might I ask why?

QUOTE (fathom @ Sep 10, 2011 -> 05:18 PM) You get the sense these announcers think we're the most undisciplined, poorly coached team in the majors. Where are you watching?

Gordon Beckham is useless. I'm so over this f***ing experiment. He should be booed as much as Adam and Rios. And that's not any sort of compliment to those two goons either. Screw them all.

Ozzie Guillen is such a freaking moron. De Aza is 2 for 3 with 2 doubles, and Dayan replaces him?! WTF! This is bulls***. KW ought to fire his stupid ass on the spot.

Alexei Ramirez has turned out to be a huge loser lately. Between his wimpy attempts at fielding throws to second or his pathetic at-bats with runners in scoring position, I'm not really sure anymore that this guy is untouchable. Then again, this team has so many losers, Alexei's mediocrity seems minor. Ugh.

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Sep 10, 2011 -> 03:25 PM) Yes, he is talking about the government getting the hell out of the way and letting business alone. Regulations upon regulations add massive amounts of financial burden to businesses, most without any real effect in what they claim to do. And before you go off the deep end, as you seem want to do, I am not saying we need NO regulations, but they need to back off. Requiring farmers to get CDL license to drive a tractor, regulating DUST as a hazardous substance and a host of other things just lead to financial costs to comply that hurt businesses, but serve little or no benefit other than to screw the companies and justify some bureaucrats existence. Exactly. Government doesn't create jobs or wealth or spark the economy. The private sector does all of that. Government needs to do its part with a very few necessary regulations to prevent market failures such as monopolies, but beyond that, it has no place interfering in the economy. The regulations Alpha points out above are just ridiculous and only hinder the economic recovery.

Here's a good article on the flag thing that does an excellent job of stating a few points that I was unable to make.

QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 08:15 PM) The fact that America was attacked on our soil made other countries feel far more vulnerable. That changed their policies. It did shake other countries, far more than another bombing in (insert small poor country here). To suggest that only one country can be affected by something, is just not realistic. Again, the holocaust shook Germany more than other countries, but the images of the refugees leaving the death camps shook the world. The tsunami that killed a couple hundred thousand people affected the globe, not just one country. There are world tragedies, there are events that shake the world, and 9/11 was one of them. But your world view is foreigners don't matter, so it would be difficult for you to accept it. I didn't say it didn't affect other countries. That'd be a retarded claim. I just said it wasn't an attack on anyone else. It was an attack on us. It shook the world, but it shook us most because al-Qaeda was trying to kill us. The Holocaust was an attack on Jews, and other groups the Nazis viewed as sub-human, and political dissenters and so forth. It shook the world and affected everyone. But it wasn't an attack on the world. It was an attack on a certain group of people with some other people grouped in. To claim that the Holocaust was an attack on America or Australia or Brazil would be ridiculous. It's just not true. And those images of emaciated Jews certainly affected people, but it doesn't mean those affected people suffered the gas chambers or summary execution like those Jews did. The tsunami was horrible. But it wasn't an American tragedy. It might have affected us in a peripheral way, but it wasn't a real factor in our domestic lives. It was, however, a big thing in your life if you were Indonesian or Somalian or Indian. It was a tragedy for them. It might have made us sad, but I don't think anyone would ever refer to it as an American tragedy. If you want a true world tragedy, I'd suggest the Spanish Flu of 1918 or the Black Death. Those affected everyone and inflicted tragedy on every corner of the globe. Either way, this is a dumb argument and it's getting really redundant. So whatever.

QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 08:06 PM) Wow. Ok, I'm done. They do matter, the brown ones give you a target. Nice try, but I meant that the opinions of the Muslims and the Chinese don't matter when it comes to how American patriotism is practiced on American soil. I don't care what their opinions are on this topic, and if they're offended, so what? I'm done too.

QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 08:04 PM) Not a world tragedy? Wow. How old are you? I say that because you see the world differently at 40 than 12. The outpouring of support from around the world was amazing. I remember watching the coverage, nations everywhere shared in our grief and outrage. It's like saying the holocaust was a German or Jewish tragedy. People around the globe waving American flags, leading prayer services, lighting candles. Yeah, I remember that. It was nice. The rendition of the Star Spangled Banner at Buckingham Palace on 9/12 was one of the most beautiful I've ever seen. But that doesn't mean that two of their most symbolic buildings were destroyed, another one badly damaged and 2,500+ of their citizens murdered. It's nice that they showed such support, but it wasn't an attack on them and it didn't shake any of those countries to the absolute core like it did to ours.

QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 08:01 PM) You wrote What expense? At the expense of letting patriotic Americans like Sarah Snow commemorating 9/11 in their preferred way without worrying about offending a bunch of people who don't matter.

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 07:55 PM) So no immigrants died on 9/11? We went through that already. Go back and try reading the conversation.

I don't understand your question. If Mexican Americans are proud of their heritage, let them fly their flags. I don't care. That doesn't have anything to do with my insistence that 9/11 was an American tragedy and not a world tragedy.

QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 07:30 PM) Still what expense? If your Mexican immigrant loved one who is an American Soldier comes home from a deployment, go ahead and wave Mexican flags. I'm personally not sure why you would, since he wears an American flag patch on his right sleeve and is fighting in the United States Army. But hey, it's your loved one and if that's how he wants his homecoming celebrated, fine by me. Your claim that I'd go down and rip flags out of peoples' hands is idiotic.

Also, I don't feel good when someone is executed. Giving Leal Garcia the needle didn't bring Adria Sauceda back from the dead. I believe his execution was the right thing to do, justice-wise, but it was simply the appropriate closing scene to a horrible tragedy. Nothing in this world can make that event a happy one. So the idea that people celebrate it seems silly to me.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 06:47 PM) One more thing to add. I'm not out to get you. I hate suspending people back here since I'm a bloody liberal and half the people are annoyed at me anyway. If you're advocating a position, even passionately, go ahead, that's why we split this forum off. Just try to think about how it sounds sometimes. Saying that a person deserves to die because you don't like his politics will get my ire. Saying that a murderer deserved to die is a differed beast. I hope that's a little clear. That makes sense. I was gonna say something else about the Noam Chomsky thing, but on second thought, nah. I'll just seal up my curiosity and carry on.

QUOTE (Tex @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 06:38 PM) What expense? Accuracy? The understanding that American businesses hire workers from all corners of the globe? At least down here, when out local soldiers come home, dead or alive, I see a lot of Mexican flags as well as U.S. to commemorate their often times dual citizenship. I guess if you were here you would rip the Mexican flag out of the hands of their families? Oh shut up. For being a moderator, you're one of the most hyperbolic people on this board. Give me a freaking break and calm down.

I was in ninth grade and had moved back to the states after returning from spending several years abroad only a month before. In fact, my plane landed in NYC the previous month and I saw the towers in the distance. It was the only time I ever saw them. That morning, Mrs. Collins, the intro to algebra teacher, walked out for the longest time. I had been out of American schools for a while, and this was only a few days into the school year. And at the school abroad, teachers would often walk out of the class in order to have smoke breaks. I didn't think much about it, and figured that was simply the case (yeah, bizarre assumption looking back on it). She came back in and was very solemn. She eventually spoke up and I'll never forget what she said. She asked who among us knew who Osama bin Laden was. I was always a curious child and I knew a good deal about him for a 14 year old, pre 9/11. So I raised my hand and so did one or two others. She then explained that there had been terrorist attacks in DC and New York. I asked if anyone died. She said, "I don't know how it could have been avoided." I didn't really talk to anyone that day. I sat alone at lunch. There were all kinds of stupid rumors that I overheard. The State Department was destroyed (as though the State Department were a physical entity that could be theoretically destroyed) and the White House was on fire etc. I didn't really want to hear any of that nonsense from a bunch of goofy teenagers who couldn't have recognized the Pentagon. The truth was hard to come by all day because the school was on lockdown due to being situated in an area with a heavy military presence. However, as ignorant as some of the stuff being said was, it was very clear to everyone that world had changed forever that day. It wasn't until the final class of the day that Mr. Graninger, my one armed tyrant of an English teacher, cleared everything up. He revealed for the first time everything that is so deeply seared on our national conscience today. I don't think those details need to be recounted here. I went home and turned on the TV with my brother. My dad came home and joined us. It was on every channel. ESPN, MTV, everywhere. You couldn't get away from it and, in a way, you would've felt bad if you tried to. We ate dinner in silence as the TV continued in the background. It was just the worst thing ever. My eyes well up just thinking about it, and I think I'd feel like a monster if they didn't. I wish there was some concise conclusion I could offer to the story. As if it ended and we all went on with our lives, remembering the dead in gracious commemorations on the anniversary and building a memorial at the site. But it's not that simple. The world changed that day. More than when Obama was elected or more than when Osama got fed to sea creatures or any of that. It was the defining day of my young generation. And in spite of the death and the horror and the tragedy, there was a certain beauty in the way America responded. The way people showed up for blood drives en masse, and worked tirelessly at Ground Zero, and helped each other for a change. People of all races, creeds and political beliefs came together in a way that we hadn't seen before and haven't seen since. It was a tragic day, but the American people really united in that moment and proved again why we are the greatest nation on Earth. May all those who perished on that day rest in eternal peace, and God bless America.

I know that this is an old thread, but I've got a question about the death thing. I get that wishing death on people is against the rules. I've been warned on it twice (first for Noam Chomsky and then for the London rioters). Got it. So, how about the death penalty? Is it taboo here to say that someone needs to be tried, convicted and executed? I supported the execution of Humberto Leal Garcia right to the end and I still do. Is that acceptable? What if I said those who convicted of violent sex crimes and crimes against children need to be hanged? Off limits? And if ardent support for capital punishment is OK, what makes the difference? The fact that there was a supposedly fair trial? Just curious...

Here's a good page about the provisions of the flag code. Ya'll can read through it and decide for yourselves. I'd say that depictions of the flag on t-shirts and ties are OK, although such things would from then on deserve a special respect. Napkins, mint wrappers and other items designed for temporary use and then discarding are not allowed. It's interesting, and admittedly, some of it is hard to follow. Is the 4'x6' flag pinned to my living room wall by four discreet thumbtacks acceptable? Not sure. Apparently, the display of the flag horizontally, as often seen at athletic events and conducted by service members, is prohibited by the Flag Code. Another one...I'm considering a tattoo on my right bicep. It's going to have a skull with a rattlesnake coiled around it, and a banner with "Don't Tread On Me" and two flag poles through the skull. One with the USA and one with Texas. From reading this, it seems like the national flag should be on the viewer's left, my right. Meaning it will be towards the back of my arm. That seems weird. Maybe I need a new idea.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 03:59 PM) Isn't turning the flag into commercially sold articles of clothing considered against the flag code anyway? This is a bit confusing. Section 8d says the flag should never be used as wearing apparel. But I do not believe they mean depictions of the flag. I've got a t-shirt with an American flag depicted on the chest. And I know tons of vets with baseball caps that have a velcro spot to attach a flag patch, the same patch that goes on the right sleeve of our uniform. I believe what they are prohibiting (although not really, since the flag code is only a voluntary guide of respect with no provisions for enforcement or punishment) is the wearing of an actual flag. Like when some rock star comes out using a shredded American flag as a shirt, or some athlete uses it as a cape. s*** like that. But I'm not honestly sure.

QUOTE (VictoryMC98 @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 03:56 PM) I might regret this.. But.. What does the bolded part mean? It means I wouldn't allow my child to receive an education at a school headed by the kind of guy who is incapable of taking a coherent stand, and who could actually see the display of the American flag as a problem.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 9, 2011 -> 03:54 PM) IIRC in at least once of those cinco de mayo/american flag cases, the boys in question had antagonized Mexicans before and were vocally anti-immigrant, so wearing the flag on cinco de mayo was a deliberate act meant to incite a reaction. There was apparently some incitement from students at that school. But not from the students that were sent home. That's what I got out of it.