Bananarchy

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 03:08 PM) No way. A contender, say the Red Sox, are not going to trade a starting outfielder( Betts or Bradley) in order to get a starting pitcher. They would be willing to trade a minor league package but are not going to open up holes on the ML roster. Sale and/or Q need to bring back some number of ML ready players not just prospects. Now if say a Boston or LA does not make the playoffs, then in the offseason they would be inclined to move a stud for a stud. In addition, in the off-season, there will be more suitors although Sale should bring back a package that most teams might not want to give up. I don't follow Boston enough, but if the White Sox wanted Nomar Mazara (an early ROY favorite) and prospects from Texas for Sale or Q, they would do it. I think you forget how valuable a starting pitcher with that type of contractual control is.

National Blackhawks games

QUOTE (HeGone7 @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 02:52 PM) Teams are desperate, but if your hope is to deal Sale and get a guy like Betts with prospects, or Seager, I saw Springer's name thrown around this site, etc., those guys I don't foresee available in the midst of a playoff push. However, in the offseason, I think they'd certainly be entertained. So I see pro's and con's for both. Obviously, I wrote a narrative about my feelings on selling, and if several guys are dealt but part of the plan is to move the bigger pieces in the offseason because they can net a young star already on a roster - I'm ok with that. But I'm very weary of the Sox actually following through. That's a point I haven't considered. Then again, I'm not sure the Sox, if selling, are really looking for immediate MLB impact or if they want to build for the future.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 02:26 PM) Am I the only one that thinks that the Sox could get more for Sale and Q if they traded them right now as opposed to in the offseason? There are several teams out there that think they're one ace away from being able to win it all THIS YEAR. That sense of urgency doesn't really exist in the offseason. Right. It's a trade off. Right now, teams are more desperate. In the offseason there are more teams interested but they're not as liable to be stupid. What a difference half a season make. I would love to see the percentage of people here who want a full rebuild now.

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 01:47 PM) I'm willing to wait out a rebuild. I've lost so much interest in the season the past week. Me too. 100% agree. I would be willing to watch a rebuild over this garbage product.

QUOTE (Footlongcomiskeydog @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 01:33 PM) Reports out there that the Cubs are in on Reddick. Always thought he would look good in a Sox uniform. I guess the rich just get richer... Depressing time to be a Sox fan. I don't expect the Sox to make any major moves. They will just sit on their hands like last year. The Cubs have earned it. We can, too but we have to start from the bottom, which is hard.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 12:54 PM) I would hold Rodon as well, but not because I am opposed to trading him, just because he isn't yet worth what he should be. If you're rebuilding, I don't touch anyone Rodon or younger. There's just no need. They don't have sufficient value and could last in the organization long enough to see the "future good White Sox" QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 12:57 PM) #WhiteSox sound open-minded. Stance is same as it is every season - will listen to all ideas and discuss. Still unlikely they would move SP. https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/756185215274459136 #WhiteSox previously indicated this is 2nd year of at least three-year window. Would be abrupt and uncharacteristic shift if they sold big. https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/756185236162093056 Asked one rival exec about possibility of #WhiteSox moving Quintana: His response: "People have asked for years and they refuse." https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/756185729361911808 A self respecting owner would call out the FO for acting this way. Too bad we really don't have that. There isn't a plan and if there were, this team is too bad for it to be working.

QUOTE (FT35 @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 12:51 PM) OK...let's be realistic...you can't just trade everyone. Everyone who is saying Rodon, Anderson and Fulmer are no's...everyone else is gone. You know how long it would take to work out a trade for everyone!?!? You can't just keep 3 young, unproven players and get rid of everyone else. No one does that and we aren't THAT bad. Some of these are obvious but often overlooked by posters here! Here are some things to consider in a rebuild: 1. You have to keep a vet. For the stability of an organization, you need some sort of constant--a Frank Thomas/Paul Konerko-type player that exemplifies an organization, deals with the new players and serves as an ambassador for the team if you will. What vet defines White Sox baseball and its future? Possibilities include Frazier, Sale, Q, Abreu, Eaton. Personally, my vote would be Sale because of his value/contract. A vet on the roster next season could be a signing to fill in the roster, but not necessarily anyone on this team. Yes and no. I agree the White Sox should dump Robin, but if you're rebuilding the manager matters very little because the major league roster is meaningless in a true rebuild. Nah. Get me pieces for Adam Eaton. Rehab the farm system and draft Eaton's replacement.

QUOTE (GoGoSox2k2 @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 12:47 PM) is this to much to excpect for q? White Sox get: Odor / Profar Mazara Gallo Rangers get: Q Robertson Duke It's not too much to expect. I would be interested to know what the Rangers actually think of Mazara. He started off red hot but has considerably cooled. I would say , if we're sending two relievers, I would add Tate to our side.

QUOTE (Flash Tizzle @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 12:39 PM) It's not a bad idea to take advantage of a team's position now. Yes, in the offseason there are more suitors; but at this point those in need of starting pitching are known and a trade can provide immediate relief. Agreed. Teams on the fringe right now taste playoff blood and do crazy things. So while there are less teams looking at the deadline, the packages now can be crazy good.

QUOTE (Tony @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 12:34 PM) If I'm running things, I put an open for business sign on my door, and explore options. My gut tells me no one is going to give me the right package for Sale or Q, so I turn my focus on trading Fraizer-Robertson-Melky and see what I can do. In the off-season and at the Winter Meetings is where I really try and sell Sale and Q. The problem is of course in reality, the White Sox front office believes the fan base needs to hear they are "in it to win it" every year, yet we all know that isn't even close to being true. Probably the best overall approach.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 12:32 PM) I don't think theres' a situation where the team would EVER come out and say that Sale/Q are open to being traded. Even if they traded them, it would probably be from the above posture. Agreed. Announcing you are putting your 1 and 2 starters on the market is not good for business and serves only to decrease their value.

QUOTE (Tony @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 12:27 PM) Sure, they have the pieces. Do they want to do it? You're asking for 1-2 major league ready pieces, plus more to get Sale. And that's an understandable ask. But do those playoff teams want to part with pieces like that, in the middle of the season? I don't think it'll be that easy, which is why I'm not yet shouting sell. My only experience is really with the Rangers, so I'll look at them. They need at least one more starter and one more reliever. They are loaded with high level talent. It's possible Hahn could offer Q, Robertson for some of the Rangers' top prospects and an MLB ready guy like JP.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 12:24 PM) The #Whitesox expected to keep rotation intact, but everyone else, except SS Tim Anderson, are in play at trade deadline https://twitter.com/BNightengale/status/756173009606545409 I dont understand this. Don't want to trade any rotation pieces but can gut the rest of the team and have no offense or bullpen but least the Sox have starting pitching. Really hoping the sox arent that stupid. Cant imagine getting elite talent for the rest of the team. That's the problem I have as well. There isn't a situation where the White Sox suddenly have elite offensive prospects while keeping their current pitching prospects.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 12:22 PM) I don't think anyone knows but at least there's some options out there. The main problem is we can't really trust this front office to do anything at this point. No matter what, I'd like to at least try a new model instead of the one we already know keeps us mediocre. Right. I'm a fan of the anarchy route, but I understand if Rick and Kenny still can't draft, none of this matters.

QUOTE (Tony @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 12:20 PM) So who is giving the Sox this haul everyone believes is coming for Sale and Quintana? Are the Dodgers giving up Seager? BoSox giving up Bogarts? Cubs giving up Schwarber? I'm sick of being stuck in the middle, but there is a right way to sell and a wrong way to sell. I don't trust this front office to know the difference Boston, Dodgers, Rangers. Any one of those teams could knock the White Sox FO's socks off if they wanted.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 12:13 PM) The thing is, you never know with pitchers when it comes to crashing halt. Sale could stay healthy to his late 30's and go to the Hall, and that would be great. But there are no guarantees with that, and he certainly may sign elsewhere for 2020 and beyond. If he's not here to pitch for winning White Sox teams, they should listen on moving him at some point. For Quintana, sell high. Get a haul now. At this rate, he'd be crazy not to sign somewhere else. This model isn't getting us anywhere.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 12:10 PM) No the real misery will be if prospects start failing...that's when the best of this forum comes out I dunno, before this season I looked at the Astros and thought "maybe the rebuild won't work", but they're good again and that middle of the lineup is incredible. And the White Sox, unlike the Pirates of yesteryear, can afford to keep their players when they find good ones.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 12:08 PM) The misery is that Q and Sale will be gone, to be honest. Sale's on a HoF track and Q's the type that could pitch for a long time and be an all-time Sox pitcher. It'd just suck. The real misery is that Q and Sale look to finish their White Sox tenures without sniffing the playoffs. It already sucks.

QUOTE (bmags @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 12:05 PM) Re: misery. Honestly, it's less painful than now. Year 3 we will be getting antsy. But knowin gthere is a purpose goes a long way. 2013/2014 weren't that bad. I liked seeing the young talent play. Realistically, if this team is rebuilding, hopefully we'll be excited about draft picks by the time year three rolls around. The idea of being excited about the future would be so refreshing.

Heyman reporting Fulmer, Frazier, Robertson top Sox trading chips. I can't see a reason to move Fulmer over Sale, Q if we're selling.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 11:56 AM) The best move they can make and the FIRST move is for JR to s***can most of the folks on the baseball side and bring in people from winning organizations to look at the many Sox problems with a fresh set of eyes and new ideas. Mark I loathe comparing teams across sports, but White Sox ownership needs to do essentially what the Bears did. Fire the Vice President down, hire an expert baseball mind to help comb the league for a touted assistant GM in a winning organization.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 11:56 AM) There are three untouchables in a full scale fire sale. Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer. Sale could bring back an unprecedented haul. Q should bring back something slightly less than the Shelby Miller debacle. Gonzalez and Shields could probably bring in some decent fliers. Abreu's name would probably carry some value. Frazier's average is low, but he's producing runs. Bring some value. Eaton should bring some good value back. Melky should bring a decent prospect in. Robertson/Duke/Jones/Jennings can all bring in a decent prospect. Lawrie might. Just know, everyone here will be in misery for at least 3 years, regardless of return. It's probably the wise move at this point but still. Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer (now in the rotation) and Saladino would be the only watchable parts of it. You'd have to hope that the 2016 draft class are all fast risers to minimize the misery. Good stuff. I agree with all of this. I think the core of this fanbase can deal with being bad for a couple of season. The fickle fans already skip the games as is. At least our attendance would make sense.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 11:47 AM) I know folks are frustrated and so am I but I think we can still make a run for that second wild card spot. However, if reality kicks us in the teeth just what is the right way to rebuild? I read the calls for "blow it up" and "trade everyone" and "Fire Robin and all his staff". I am sure the team and ownership knows that there is plenty of blame to go around. However, generally a rebuild means you build around your best and that's what I would like to know from folks in a legitimate planned out fashion. Post your ideas for a 25 man team position by position and who who might legitimately trade for new pieces. "The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now" - Chinese Proverb Honestly, it should be right now. Crazy things happen at trade deadlines and some of the teams looking at serious postseason prospects will move young talent to achieve their short term goals. Now is the time. I would go position by position, but if we want to be relevant in the near future, it won't be pretty. Eaton, Frazier, Melky, Sale, and Q would be gone. Fulmer and Rodon in the rotation.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 11:50 AM) So is your plan at this point just staying put and trying to add pieces again next offseason? Serious question. Maybe he's actually Rick Hahn. At best, this plan gets interspersed good seasons. At worst, you get the White Sox. QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 11:51 AM) I'm talking about next year. If you keep Sale and Q your going into next year with the same mentality as this past offseason. So we can be in the same spot next year? Nah. Let's get the rebuild going right away.