Flash Tizzle

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:21 PM) It's ironic. I can remember the outcries saying that Reed, Olivo and Morse was too much to give up for Freddy. But nobody truly knew. You look back now and you say, 'holy hell' that surely looks like a steal now. At the time, considering the status of those three, it WAS giving up too much. Sure, it obviously worked out for the Sox; but does that mean Williams should always include top prospects because it worked out once? Or that I should trust every move because no traded prospects have come back to haunt us? Well, Chris Young will probably change that belief.

QUOTE(SoxAce @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:19 PM) That's different Tizz. That other deal would have been Garland not BMac. And I'll take Danks anyweek over those other two. I don't mind the BMac deal much. But the Garcia trade? No. Unless Floyd figures it out and suddenly pitches up to his potential this was not a good trade and it's hard for me to say cause I have supported every trade KW has made even Reed leaving. I didn't mean that McCarthy could have been traded for that package. There's no doubt he could have. I just threw it out as to suggest the disparity in both deals. McCarthy should have been traded for Hurley and Danks or nothing at all. Masset may be a valuable bullpen arm, but he's just that -- a bullpen arm. An area of a ballclub which is typically unreliable season to season, except for a selected few. Two legitimate SP prospects should have been obtained.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 05:02 PM) When Ken Rosenthal is quoting MLB Executives, I'm going to take his word for it. Rosenthal was on top of everything this offseason. I believe Jayson Stark quoted executives for not beliving the Sox couldn't get more. The day he traded Freddy, Schmidt, Lilly, and Meche all signed deals. We traded a our second best starter (behind Contreras) last year, who was coming off a phenomenal September after using a new pitch (similar to Loaiza in 2002) for a small, former Sox farm hand and a guy who flopped in both AAA and the NL last year with one option left. 2007 Garcia + two compensation picks > Gonzalez and Floyd. Stupid trade. In future seasons, if Garland, Vazquez, Contreras are to be dealt, we simply can't have deals resembling the Garcia trade. I'll also argue the McCarthy deal was rather ridiculous considering the pieces we picked up. How much better is Danks/Massett than Hirsh/Bucholz? The difference in those packages certainly doesn't equal the large disparity, both in talent and service time left to the team, that Jennings and McCarthy present. And as much as you're tired of hearing this, unless our drafting practices improve, I'll continue to hold high expectations for the packages Williams receives for starters.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 04:58 PM) LOL. You are quoting Spring Training numbers. I'm sure he has plenty of sources. I'm sure he's been right plenty of times. But that doesn't change what I said. It's not proof at all. Alright, I'm convinced you have to be a plant within the White Sox organization, Williams himself, or Reinsdorf to be this thick headed. This is exactly your game. Without Williams himself admitting the Garcia package wasn't the best possible, you'll never believe it. And since he'll never say it, you never have to admit that perhaps Williams didn't perform his job correctly. Sweet deal.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 04:53 PM) I don't care what he says. How do you know that KW didn't ask for the moon earlier in the offseason, and then came back and got Floyd and Gonzalez, two guys he wanted, for Freddy when he saw that Freddy's value sucked. Rosenthal doesn't know that. You don't know that. I don't know that we received the best package available, I don't have a clue whether KW did or didn't. My point is you dont' have a clue either. Rosenthal is citing PHILADELPHIA sources. I don't understand your inability to digest this information. It's almost as if you can't stand the thought. Hell, even with the evidence staring you in the face you can't admit that Williams clearly didn't receive all that he could have for Garcia. It's this simple..... How can you interpret it any differently than Williams not asking for the best possible package?

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 04:41 PM) He sure was speaking with a lot of conviction, so I figured maybe he had bugged KW's phone and heard all the proposals for Freddy. http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6466022 You'll only look foolish continuing to suggest we received the best available package for Garcia. Williams didn't do his job. It's that simple.

QUOTE(fathom @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 04:40 PM) How long before the rumors start up about the Sox making a run at Garcia when he's a free agent? That'll never happen. Unless he's injured. Then we'll go after him.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 04:33 PM) How do you know that wasn't the best available package? In Ken Rosenthal article posted last month, he mentioned how Philadelphia was surprised the asking price for Garcia was so low. I interpret that as meaning something else could have been added. Gonzalez/Castro/Additional minor leaguer and I have would been happy. That's hardly blowing someone out of the water, but at least we have potential in Castro (either within the bullpen or rotation) and the extra piece, which sure beats the alternative of nothing.

QUOTE(shoota @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 04:29 PM) I've missed the entire game so I'm hoping someone can tell me how Floyd pitched. I'm guessing badly. Bad, unless you consider the hidden intangibles with a 3.2 inning, 9 hit, 6 ER performance.

QUOTE(quickman @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 04:23 PM) fathom the sox will give every opportunity for floyd to win this. they will even force it, because they look like crap for getting nothing in return for freddie. In my opinion, Danks will be good but they don't wan to bring him in this year.They really don't have too, he is Buerhles replacement, he might come up when we are in third place at the all star break and we trade Buerhle for more prospects, hopefully somebody has a SS considering we can't draft one. I completely agree with this. Garcia deal was just done horribly. In future seasons, if Garland/Contreras are delt, it should be for the best available package rather than obtaining an enigma such as Floyd. Gonzalez was a quality piece, but Floyd appears to me more of an addition done to prove, "HEY, we did get something in 2007 for Garcia!" I feel similarly about Masset. He'll be in Chicago opening day.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 04:06 PM) So if one guy attacks the strikezone and gets out without getting rocked and the numbers show it, compared to a guy who attacks the strikezone and give us doubles and runs. Exactly. Am I supposed to accept the coaching staff's decision to select Floyd if what they see concerning "intangibles" doesn't match the statistics? What does it say if he's throwing strikes and getting smacked around? If they believe his arm isn't loose, or some legitimate reason other than mediocrity, I'd wish someone would say it. I don't want to pick up the newspaper tomorrow and read Williams or Cooper tell me he did well when the results obviously suggested otherwise.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 04:04 PM) Danks has thrown 2IP 1BB 3SO, but unfortunately like everyone else in Arizona, ST numbers don't mean anything, whether good or bad So in your mind, how exactly do we determine the 5th starter? Will Floyd still be in the rotation with a 15.00 ERA come April if the scouts are satisfied with his arm angle?

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 03:55 PM) Next time out Danks needs to start a game. Preferably on the road, against a good hitting team. Its the best formula to get the best competition from the opposition. What has happened now is exactly the type of crap we need to avoid. Just looking at the boxscore -- Botts replaced Sosa, Gold - Wilkerson, Guzman - Lofton, Vazquez - Young. How the hell are we supposed to judge him fairly?

QUOTE(CanOfCorn @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 03:34 PM) Or maybe that was the deal, give it or take it. Maybe that was the best deal they could get for Garcia from ANYONE? It's entirely possible with the one year left on the contract and drop in velocity last year. During the Best/Worst offseason moves on Fox Sports, Rosenthal mentioned how Philadelphia executives were surprised our asking price for Garcia was so low. Consider what Colorado received for Jason Jennings and compare it to our return for Garcia. The discrepancy between the pitchers isn't enough to justify the difference.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 03:17 PM) Floyds line 6 runs 6 earned 2 walks 1 k 8 hits Add another 2/3IP, another hit and two more strikeouts. Wonder if this is the moment we'll hear about from management. That near the end he "settled down." Gameday says Corwin Malone entered the game after Floyd. I hope to finish the inning and nothing more.

I wonder how Haeger fared this morning in the B game. Has anyone heard anything?

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 03:18 PM) Don't worry. Coop will fix him. Hopefully Floyd can be fixed by remote satellite feed in Charlotte.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 03:17 PM) Floyds line 6 runs 6 earned 2 walks 1 k 8 hits Not even Williams or Jphat can spit that. Someone REALLY needs to come forward and explain what they saw in Floyd that made trading for him a necessity. This is a situation where the organization probably wishes it could avoid. If he's bad at the end of spring training, in comparison to Danks/Haeger, no roster position should be guaranteed. Yet, I still think it will be. I guess we'll see how Danks fares the remainder of the game.

QUOTE(GoSox05 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 03:14 PM) Floyd having a a full-scale meltdown as he loses his job as 5th starter. SSI, when you say 6-4, do you mean Texas scored an additional couple runs or have we added on?

Uh oh. Anyone listening to the game? A long period of time passing between innings is never a good sign. It feels like it's been the bottom of the third on MLB gameday for 10 minutes.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 03:05 PM) If I got a nice dinner for it later that night, sure Well, I suppose a grinder attitude does include sacrificing yourself, and possibly your pride, to judge the talent of two pitchers.

QUOTE(ptatc @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 03:00 PM) Maybe Ozzie wants to see how mentally tough the pitchers are to pitch over mistakes made by fielders. Sometimes this can be a good mark for a pitchers. Do they hang their head? Do they glare at the feilder. Do they fall apart and give up a big inning> Don't you believe such an idea is sort of bad for the morale of players on the field? Would you want to be put out as a "test" for pitchers -- almost expected to fail defensively?

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 02:52 PM) You people are joking, right? You are seriously joking? It's spring f***ing training. Get over yourselves. I don't know exactly what you're referring to, but with Danks and Floyd you have to judge these two based on something tangible. If not major league competition, what else? Spring training matters for these two.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 02:50 PM) 4-3, Floyd gets roughed up. (sigh) I'm ready for Williams to tell me how tremendous his breaking ball was, or how the line didn't indicate how "impressive" he was. I still believe he'll ultimately make the team. Williams needs to show tangible proof that trading Garcia provided our ballclub with a player available to help this season.

QUOTE(GoSox05 @ Mar 13, 2007 -> 02:44 PM) Mack's probably in CF due to the fact that the Sox are playing a "B" game today too. I can't believe there isn't one extra OF with CF experience available. No non-roster invitee? Sweeney? Anderson? Orlando? I just hope a Mackowiak gaffe doesn't play a factor into either Floyd or Danks line.