BlackSox13

QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 30, 2016 -> 01:12 PM) i agree that it is posturing .... reason is 13 mil worth. but that aside, what will be the final decision, his get up and go, his stats in ST??? he starts of horrible for the first 2 months of play. so how will they judge him?? that is another reason i am saying it is just posturing from the sox FO. LaRoche's performance in ST will determine his playing time to start the season. I would imagine that even if LaRoche earns playing time to start the season, he will have to continue to earn it to stay in the lineup. LaRoche will surely be on a short leash and understably so. The Sox could really use his power potential from the left side so hopefully he can regain some of what he had prior to '15.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 30, 2016 -> 01:07 PM) excellent break down and i really do see some fa's accepting the QO. maybe not next yr, since it will be a somewhat thin fa class. now the 2018, if the system stays as is, i bet they will be more accepting the QO. now i have been trying to see whom on the sox will be fa's? Lawrie, Frazier and Melky are free agents after the '17 season. That's all I can think of off the top of my head.

Good on Robin for coming out being blunt about LaRoche needing to earn playing time.

I think there are variables to take into consideration for players when they decide to accept or turn down QO's. Age, previous years performance and the upcoming FA market. Desmond: obviously should have taken the QO. He's been statistically trending downward so taking the 1 year QO to try and improve for FA would have been the smarter idea. Plus there was a big market for SS's either. Rasmus: smart move accepting. Market was flooded with OF talent so he decided to take the guaranteed money for one more year to bet on himself getting a multi-year contract next year where there will not be as much OF talent to compete with.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jan 30, 2016 -> 06:30 AM) What? He's effectively getting paid $4.3M for 2017, that's pretty horrible. Staying on the west coast where he has been living for years, playing for a perennial playoff contender and two years of financial security were obviously more important to Kendrick. Kendrick has made plenty of money throughout his career.

Good eye Caulfield and I like the idea. Hernandez seems to be a player without a position for the Dodgers and would be much more useful to a team like the Sox. Still young at 24 years old too.

I don't know, this doesn't seem like such a bad deal for Kendrick. Sure he turned down 15.7M for one year but he got a two year 20M deal instead. For a 32 year old player that is beginning to decline, I think there's something to be said about two years of financial security over one year.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 29, 2016 -> 09:23 PM) lets clarify one thing, ok. you and i talked about the top 3 or 4 elite hitters, i felt i needed to add c. davis to that list. i never thought the sox could or would sign any, b/c of the price being too exorbitant. i also mention that in that huge thread. so i guess we are on the same wave length as to cespy. so loosing out on cespy, i am totally indifferent to it. but if they, hahn and the FO, is trying to fib on the truth, i have a problem. if they want to mislead the fans, i have a problem. it is a creditability issue for me. now i am having this feeling as no important signing is coming, now that has me incense. fix this team, do not go cheap and go into the season with the team as is. nor go into the season with pitching or OF reclamation experiments on the roster. this will tell me, it is all about the money. If you didn't believe the Sox had a chance at signing those players because the price was exorbitant, and I agree, then what's the problem? Why would you get incensed if no important signing is coming when you didn't expect the Sox to sign any of the big FA's in the first place? Honestly, I do not see where you're coming from. I have not seen any comments from the front office that were mis-leading, not one. If you could provide links to comments made by the FO that were mis-leading, it would help me better understand where you're coming from. Going into the off season, did fans really believe the Sox were going to be able to fill all 6 holes that were 3B, 2B, SS, RF, DH and C? Frazier, Lawrie, Navarro and Avila were added to the roster along with Saladino taking over at SS. That's alot of changes right there and Hahn has said they are still looking and at this point I see no reason to doubt him since the off season is not over. Keep in mind though, he's not saying they WILL add another bat, just that they are still looking so lets take his comments for what they truely are and not what we want them to mean.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 29, 2016 -> 06:20 PM) guilty of misleading on the all in statement and letting it fester or morph into something other, if they really had no interest, anyone, i am sure they would have made a statement of other options available. cryptic innuendo's is more along the line of what i am talking about..... again this is me and my suspicions of the attendance of soxfest and fans purchasing season tickets. Maybe I missed it but when did the Sox say they were all in? I don't recall seeing that in anything I've read this off season. I've seen it mentioned by a fan or two on this board but nothing from the Sox FO. The only misleading statements were made by writers and people on twitter. It's the fans fault for taking speculations and rumors and reading more into them then there really was. Case in point, the Cespedes thread is over 400 pages long and it started from a Garfien tweet. Don't get me wrong, I had fun discussing the possibility with everyone here but I also said few times in that thread that fans should not get their hopes up by assuming anything. I believe the Sox were in on Cespedes to a point but look at what it took for the Mets to bring Cespedes back to NY, a place he wanted to return to. How is it the front offices fault that Heyward wanted to play for the cubs, Cespedes wanted to stay with the Mets, Gordon wanted to stay with KC and Upton didn't want to play for the Sox? It's not front offices fault that fans mis-led their self. That's on the fans for buying into the media hype.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 29, 2016 -> 06:05 PM) you make a good counter, but during all the hoopla of cespy and teams courting him, it was always assumed the the sox were in the running, their was a rumor of 3 yrs contract and then the rumor of a 5 yr contract. 3yr being that of the mets and the 5 yrs being that of the nat'l. so in essence lack of any information or further input from the FO, plus the comment of all in.... they the FO was guilty of misleading the fans. this is my assumption and if i am correct in my reasoning, then the next several questions is 1. why and 2. did they expect the fans to figure this out?? Guilty of mis-leading fans by not discussing negotiations they are having with free agents? Arent the Sox known for " flying under the radar" when it comes to these things? Sorry, but the fans were mis-led by the media writers , not the Sox FO.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jan 29, 2016 -> 05:33 PM) Avi apparently got booed? That kinda crap pisses me off so much. I don't want the dude starting either but it's not like the guy is lazy and doesn't care about his job, don't boo him at a fan convention. Awful. Agree with everything you say. I have taken my fair share of jabs at Avi about his bat and glove but I do not doubt he works hard at trying to get better. It just hasn't worked out up to this point. We're not talking about a guy that shows up late, lacks hustle and has a bad attitude.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jan 29, 2016 -> 04:46 PM) It's not about Cespedes -- it's about getting a RF when the market was flush with RF options and their prices were low. They need to get ONE of them, and they've whiffed on them all so far. Cespedes wanted to stay in NY, Gordon wanted to stay in KC, Heyward turned down more money to sign with a team that had made it to the NLCS and it was rumored that Upton didn't want to play for the Sox. As far as I can tell, the Sox never had a chance with any of them. Why would a player be willing to sign while the prices were low? Doesn't sound very motivating to a FA player. Judging by the money spent and the contracts signed, I doubt the prices were ever low in the first place. QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 29, 2016 -> 04:48 PM) ok, for me, this was a done topic in some ways, but when Hahn came out and said that 3 yr deal and all that, that mean all the rumor chatter of last week and hopes of the sox being in the running..... that mean they were never in the running. esp if the sox never intended to propose a contract of a 3 - yr deal or a contract of longer yrs. all along the sox stuck to their internal agreement of what they were going to do. in other words, no OF'er, no additional moves.... they are done improving the team. do not get fixated on the salary demands of the contract.... but look at the whole thing. Hahn never came out and said the Sox were only willing to go three years, that was the media. Hahn said all along that the Sox would have to get creative to be able to sign a FA and that's why we heard rumors early in the off season about LaRoche being on the market. It's not like the Sox have never signed players to longer than three years so I don't understand why fans cannot get past that media rumor. Hahn came out today and confirmed the Sox were willing to go beyond 3 years and yet fans are still bringing it up. Makes no sense. It's not the front office's fault the fans got caught with their pants down making assumptions and believing everything they read on the internet.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Jan 29, 2016 -> 04:27 PM) I had no problem with the Sox not paying the exorbitant salary demands. Cespedes seemed to want to stay with the Mets anyway. If we have money to spend let's see who is still out there as we move closer to ST and maybe pick up a couple solid players albeit not the spectacular splash some want with one big name Absolutely agreed. Cespedes asking price and desire to stay in NY never made much sense for the Sox and yet fans want to blame the front office for not signing Cespedes. It's the fans fault for assuming the Sox would sign Cespedes, not the FO.

I have no problem with Turner being in the mix and if he beats EJ for the 5th spot that's cool but my concern would be how many innings can we expect from him? His highest IP was 118 in 2013 for the Marlins.

QUOTE (coco1997 @ Jan 29, 2016 -> 04:03 PM) Ian Desmond Jennings? Would be funny if the Sox had Ian Desmond, Desmond Jennings and Dan Jennings on the same roster.

This could be a situation like Cespedes and Gordon. Maybe Fowler wants to stay with the Cubs. The cubs signed Heyward/ Zobrist/ Lackey to improve a club that had made it to the NLCS in '15 so I wouldn't blame Fowler for wanting to return to a club house that absolutely loved him. What I'm saying is that this very well could be out of the Sox control regardless of what they offer. If I were Fowler, I'd choose the cubs over the Sox in a heartbeat.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 29, 2016 -> 03:08 PM) When KW mouthpiece Bob Nightengale reports it though, it is a little more believable. I do believe they were only willing to do a 3 year base deal with any of these particular guys. I believed it with Gordon due to Gordon's age and if that's the case I would agree with the 3 years stance. Cespedes and Upton I think the Sox were willing to go 4 years.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 29, 2016 -> 03:00 PM) It was on the internet they would only go 3 years, so Hahn has to be lying. Not just the internet, more specifically, twitter , where all rumors become reality. It won't be long before the rumor mill becomes the twitter mill. Much like Bill and Ted brought peace and harmony throughout the galaxy with their s***ty guitar playing.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 29, 2016 -> 02:47 PM) Scot Gregor ‏@scotgregor now Citing Abreu's 6-year deal and 4 years for Robertson, Hahn denies #WhiteSox were only willing to go 3 for Gordon, Cespedes or Upton Oh no! Now you've done it. Cue meltdown in 3.......2........1…....... Fwiw. I do believe Hahn.

I would imagine Saladino gets April and May to show what he can do. During that time Anderson will be in Charlotte facing AAA and 4A type pitchers so it should be interesting to see how Anderson handles better pitching.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Jan 29, 2016 -> 02:11 PM) Plus the prospect that went to the Rockies is supposed to be pretty decent. Mcgee probably won't be around to long with the Rockies and there were alot of teams after him before the trade. So figure the Rockies will be getting back more when Mcgee gets traded at some point. I did a little reading and watched some video of Marquez and he has good things going for him. Strike thrower, sinking fastball, good curveball, developing change up and generates alot of ground balls. I would imagine the high GB rate is one of the things Colorado likes most about Marquez.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jan 29, 2016 -> 01:38 PM) well i am extremely apprehensive in getting Jennings. his defensive stats, i will let the guys who are way better at than i to break it down. but offensively, no... i look at the 13 and 14 stats, the splits and his hitting vs rhp, is almost the same. around the 235 range.... no way will this will be a nice pickup. well at least for what i know in baseball stats. Omar sums up what I'm thinking in the quoted post below. QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Jan 29, 2016 -> 01:39 PM) I think it's more people are viewing him as a guy who will likely put up similar production to AJax but is much cheaper. If we trade for Jennings we can still sign a Desmond or Latos, but signing Jackson means another move is probably unlikely (I agree with DA that he'll probably be more expensive than a lot of people think). This is exactly what I'm thinking. Plus, Jennings gets Avi off the field. QUOTE (SoCalSox @ Jan 29, 2016 -> 01:55 PM) My whole thing is why couldn't they have got Dickerson for Petricka & a lower level guy or two? Would be frustrating if this is the move they made. An outfielder with plantar fasciitis is a bad combination and a problem that doesn't just go away. Gillaspie struggled with it and the same with Quentin. The Rays have a DH spot to use Dickerson in but the Sox already have too many should-be DH's with Avi, LaRoche and Melky.

I don't know. The Sox had a .611 OPS from the 3B position in '15 while Frazier had an .806 OPS. 2B for the Sox had a .564 OPS while Lawrie had a .706 OPS. Just my opinion but I'd call that a significant upgrade.

QUOTE (bear_brian @ Jan 29, 2016 -> 10:11 AM) FWIW, back when the Sox acquired Lawrie, the Oakland beat writer was on the score and said that Lawrie's best position, in her opinion, is second base and that he can play it well if he is not moved around like he was in Oakland. I remember that. Wasn't it Slusser who said it?

Apologies. Just realized this is a Buehrle thread. Derailment over, back on track. Anyway. I'm game for a Sox/Buehrle reunion.