BlackSox13

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 3, 2014 -> 07:08 PM) They are going to have pressure to go after a starting pitcher, whether it be Shields or someone else. I believe Caulfield has pointed this out already but the Royals likely go with Finnegan since he was drafted a starter anyway. Now he won't replace Shields' innings but Finnegan is going to be a starter and seeing as how he performed pretty well, I'd say he gets his chance in 2015. Finnegan makes it easier for the Royals to move on from Shields.

QUOTE (shysocks @ Nov 3, 2014 -> 06:54 PM) I would guess the Royals aren't willing to spend that kind of money, whether he fits their roster or not. The Royals were a few timely hits away from being WS champs. Victor's bat easily makes up the difference and as I said, the Royals have the money to afford Victor and I'd bet the desire seeing as how close they were.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 3, 2014 -> 05:46 PM) Seattle is my favorite, non-Detroit, landing place. With the money they have spent in the last couple of years, it makes sense. I stumbled across an article yesterday that speculated Seattle does have room in the payroll for VMart. I have no idea if that's true or not but it could make sense. I'm guessing VMart lands in KC.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 3, 2014 -> 05:38 PM) If Santana/Bauer/Carrasco ever get on a roll to go along with Kluber, watch out. If all those guys pitch up to their potential in CLE, they might actually end up with the best rotation in the division unless Rodon becomes the equivalent of Jose Abreu as a pitcher. Cleveland still has to shore up their bullpen and get a comeback season from Kipnis. As far as Victor Martinez on the Royals, that would give them almost perfect balance, with Martinez/Gordon/Hosmer/Moustakas from that side...to go along with Escobar, Perez, Infante/2B, Cain, and not sure if they're ready to replace Aoki with Dyson or would prefer to add another veteran outfielder or possibly create a platoon with Dyson. VMart on the Royals makes a lot of sense, almost too much, since the Royals have the pitching already with salary coming off the books and making more money from the playoffs, they can afford VMart and he could just be the missing piece to the Royals offense. If I were VMart, the Royals are where I would look to sign. The Tigers are falling, the Tribe don't have the money to bring him back or at least, as you said, need to work on the pen and the Sox aren't there yet. I think the Tribe and Royals will be the teams to beat in the ALC with the Tigers falling flat on their asses.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Nov 3, 2014 -> 04:58 PM) Cuddyer is a head-scratcher. Gotta be a trade coming. Just a guess but maybe the Rockies figure Cuddyer opts for FA in hopes of getting a 2 or 3 year deal so by extending him a QO they secure compensation.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 3, 2014 -> 05:10 PM) Well, nobody's going to want Michael Cuddyer now via trade. That seems to force them to move Dickerson, Blackmon (that one doesn't make sense, he started off superhot early and peaked, then had a rapid decline) or CarGo. Then there's Stubbs as well. One theory is that Cuddyer might be moving to 1B...but that's a huge QO for an average at best 1B who's likely to underproduce as he gets older. What's Morneau's status at the moment? They have to decide whether to pick up his option, which is "pretty" affordable, right? Morneau will be paid 6.75M in 2015 and his option year is 2016 and if picked up will cost 9M. http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/...shtml#contracts

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Nov 3, 2014 -> 01:46 PM) I agree with most of this. A couple of things though - if the Sox put together a team that figures to win 83ish, it could win 86 and in this division, that might be enough. But in 2016, not only will the Sox be poised to win, it will be for a much longer window than 1-2 years - something that, with good drafting, can stay going for a long time. And the Sox won't be saddled with any albatross contracts either. I also think that more aggressive moves aren't worth the risk (nor the prospects) at this time. But for 2015, they really need to add a LF, another hitter, a mid-level starter and a bullpen pitcher. They may be able to get some of it by trade. Sadly, for the ALC, 86 wins could win the division. I'm thinking the Tigers age shows in 2015 but the Tribe gets better and believe it or not so does KC. I think KC's pitching will be fine and will add a good hitter or two to improve the offense. I can see the Tribe being a 90 win team if they can stay healthy and possibly the same for KC. I think 2016 will be the Sox coming out party and will become perennial contenders for some years thereafter. My guess is the Sox add a LF, a bullpen arm and possibly a 1B/DH but that's about it. 2015 will be a telling season with respect to who settles in at 2B, how Gillaspie improves both defensively and offensively, a full season of Avi, if Danks and Noesi improve and Rodon getting his feet wet at some point... There's just so many holes to fill as well as things that would have to go right, IMO, its better to keep expectations reasonable and hope for better.

And here we've all been focused on the likes of Melky, CarGo, Rasmus etc and Hahn pulls this gem of a rabbit out of his hat! Eat your heart out Jordan Danks!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 3, 2014 -> 10:26 AM) I pointed a question at Ben Balder at BA, and got a response that Moncada CANNOT sign a major league deal, because of his age and status under the new international rules. So all of his contract that is signed is subject to the bonus pool rules. So I was right when I initially said that a $100 million deal would cost the team about $200 million because of the 100% overage tax rules. Anyone who is talking about a $100 million deal is insane. We are probably looking at a number around Dayan Viciedo's or Alexei Ramirez's initial contracts because of the tax considerations. Thanks for the info. There's going to be some serious competition for this kid, should be an interesting story to follow.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 3, 2014 -> 12:23 AM) It just seems that you flipflopped your position from the Your Offseason plan thread where you thought the Sox could contend in 2015. You keep saying VMart alone doesnt make the Sox a contender but who the heck is saying just sign VMart and no one else ? So VMart, a proven high quality ML hitter would be worth less than some unproven 19 yr old who if you sign for a certain amount you'd just double the salary in penalties ? Don't like wasting money on an old proven hitter then you should hate wasting $30-40M on penalties . Soxfan wanted Rasmus with Martinez in the lineup that was his scenario. Maybe without Martinez in the lineup he doesn't want Rasmus on a 1 yr deal or at all since if Rasmus proves his worth he'd certainly want the big bucks to follow . He'd be insane not to. However I'm 99.999 % sure he won't be signing a 1 yr deal with anyone considering its a huge risk given that if he sucks again he will be worth even less. And I'm still waiting on who you think is good quality. Maybe we can sign them all for 1 yr and Hahn can start from scratch for 2016 again. I did flip flop. After considering JR is not known to be a big spender on multiple FA's, the Sox farm is thin on talent despite its improvement, its difficult to see how the Sox will contend. IMO, its going to take this off season, the 2016 trade deadline and next off season to build a contender. Just too many holes. The Sox are not the Yanks, BoSox or Dodgers that go out and buy multiple FA's to fill in holes. If this were the case, JR could turn this into a contender by signing VMart or LaRoche to DH, Ramirez or Headley to play 3B , Rasmus or Melky to play LF, BMac to be a starter (if he could stay healthy) as well as sign a few bullpen arms. But that's not JR and in fact I'd be shocked if the Sox signed any two of those guys. I'm just hoping the Sox gain another 10 games in the win column in 2015 and anything more than that is a bonus. Just keep improving. As for Moncada, if I have to explain to you that he's an investment in the LONG term future then the discussion is already over because there's a huge difference between the reasons you sign players like VMart and Moncada.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 11:18 PM) Pretty poll-arizing topic. I was pretty sure Soxtalk would be about 50/50 on acquiring VMart but it vexes me somewhat that I've already seen posters say throw huge amounts of cash at Yoan Moncada, a guy who isnt likely to contribute for 2+ years and that's being conversative. You'd be tying up possible VMart money ( or more) into an unknown while every year that passes our best players best years get wasted. Maybe the Sox should just sit on their hands or just sign reclamation projects and ecpensive prospects and hope for the best ? Hahn's got the payroll flexibility and he going to try and make a splash whether or not some of you are afraid to get back up on the donkey after it kicked you. Rasmus at 1 year makes no sense. Even if he signed for 1 year which in itself is pretty doubtful it would be to re-enter free agency not to work out an extension. And if you agree with what Soxfan wrote there did you miss that he had Martinez in our lineup @ with Rasmus ? Moncada is a guy that would contribute for many years to come and while in his prime, unlike VMart. VMart is a guy a team signs thats one piece away from winning and the Sox are much more a way from winning than that. VMart alone does not come close to making the Sox a contender for 2015 and it would seem the Sox will not be a contender anyway for reasons already mentioned in the thread. Just too many holes... Rasmus at one year makes sense since his numbers were down in 2014 he can rebuild his value, the Sox get a LH bat for LF and if Rasmus hits well, likes the south side and the Sox like him than yes an extension is a realistic possibility. I agreed with what soxfan wrote about Rasmus which showed in my response to his post. I left VMart out of my response purposely because I'm sure soxfan had seen other comments against the idea of VMart so I'm sure he knows how I feel about VMart. The idea I liked and complimented him on was Rasmus.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 09:47 PM) I agree with those of you who say we'll get this guy. Here's the "problem" -- once again, it's going to be 3-4 years before this guys sniffs the majors. As we "rebuild," I see it as too slow a rebuild. We can't waste Sale and Abreu much more much longer. But if we sign this guy, again, we're doing so with dividends to not pay off for 3-4 years. If I remember right, spending on the international free agents and drafts does take funds away from the mlb team, right? I'm not sure but is that what you're alluding to?

QUOTE (soxfan2014 @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 09:56 PM) I think they end up with Rasmus on a one year deal so he can rebuild his value to enter free agency again next season. Eaton Alexei Abreu Martinez Garcia Rasmus Gillaspie Flowers second baseman This I can see and would make sense for both sides. If Rasmus performs well then he boosts his value, the Sox get better production from LF and if Rasmus and the Sox are happy with one another then an extension could be worked out to keep Rasmus on the south side. I would be all for this and I'm not the biggest fan of Rasmus but his age and power makes me think there could be to come from his game. Good call!

QUOTE (greg775 @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 09:44 PM) I don't see either side being interested. Seriously, after the Dunn fiasco can anybody see the Sox giving Martinez what he wants? There's no way the Sox pony up for four years, 20 million a year. I'll shut up and not post this anymore if any of you in the know comment on, not whether this is smart or not to sign him, but IF there's a chance in hell the Sox would ever sign an old guy to that kind of contract again?? Just agree or disagree with my following assertion: "There is no way in hell the Sox will even considering entering the bidding war at 15 mill and up a year for four years for Martinez." I agree with everything you say here Greg. The Sox going after VMart was written about quite a few times since September and has taken on a life of its own. Fans bought the hype hook, line and sinker. VMart does not fit the mold that Hahn has repeatedly spoken of, JR is not the type to spend huge money on a 4 year deal for a 36 year old player and the Sox need more than a DH to even be considered a contender. I really think that the local writers are trying to force the Sox into spending on VMart by getting the fans on board to help put pressure on the Sox. It reminds too much of a propaganda machine.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 08:58 PM) We know they're highly unlikely to touch 2b with semien /Johnson and probably more unlikely to pay Sandoval/Hanley/headley. I'm just as worried about catcher as those two positions. Once again like 3b (where you're looking at $12-18 million aav per year players) the only obvious upgrade is Martin and we are not in a position to put all our eggs in one or two baskets when we are 5-6 quality players away from contention. Absolutely agreed. I only mention second because its an unknown until hopefully one of the kids shows they can take it over full time and give some kind of production. I do believe one of Semien, Sanchez or Johnson will be productive there. Catcher, I'm actually OK with Flowers provided other positions are upgraded. 3B. I like Gillaspie's bat and I actually think he will continue improving, its his defense I'm concerned about. If he could add just a bit more pop, he could be used in a role similar to what the Sox would ask of a guy like LaRoche, though Gillaspie won't have the 30+ HR pop. The bullpen and LF are glaring problems and IMO, should be the first holes to be taken care of. Honestly, I really don't see how Hahn turns this team into a contender for 2015. The Sox don't have enough minor league assets to trade off to fill the holes and JR is not one to spend big in FA much less sign multiple FA's. Sure the Sox can afford to take on a bad contract or two but that won't fill the holes either. My guess is the Sox add a few quality players to add to the core that helps the Sox improve another 10 games or so but I have a difficult time seeing them being able to add enough this winter to make them the contenders Hahn has said they can be. IMO, JR would have to allow Hahn to sign at least one FA bat, trade for another high salary bat Kemp/Crawford/ Ethier, sign a few bullpen arms and maybe even a starting pitcher depending on how much faith one has in Noesi/Danks/Rodon/Bassitt and co. to fill out the rotation behind Sale and Q. Just too many questions to be answered in one off season. I do have faith in Hahn to make the Sox contenders for 2016.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 08:28 PM) A $100 million contract for Moncada would cost any team about $200 million after they paid the fines related to it. Yeah, I read your previous post after I wrote that. Since you make a very valuable point... Obviously 9 years and 100M+ isn't not very realistic for any team, even the Yanks since it will cost 200M+ overall. So what do you think some of the top bids will be? I have not got the slightest idea on how much to speculate on.

QUOTE (QuickJones81 @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 08:03 PM) Should the Sox go all in on Moncada? QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 08:07 PM) YES I second this!

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 08:09 PM) They did that with Abreu. But doesn't depend on who bids the highest? Either which way, I do hope the Sox get him. Would be an excellent long term solution. I think you are correct with who bids the highest. I just read an article that speculates the contract could go 9 years and top 100M. I say go for it.

QUOTE (Dam8610 @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 08:01 PM) I'm surprised no one else responded to this with all the prospect junkies on here. Anyway, Anderson fractured his right wrist in late June or early July, and still in his age 21 season mashed High A pitching to the tune of 120 wRC+, then AFTER the wrist injury, earned a promotion to AA where in a very small sample size (10 games), he mashed AA pitching to the tune of a 143 wRC+. The best way to do it is a steady building approach. In 2013, they won 63 games. In 2014, they won 73 games. You'd like to see a similar level of improvement in 2015, then move into full contention mode in 2016. Doing it that way will likely allow the team to hang on to its young, cost controlled assets and not make dumb decisions that they'll regret in the prime years of their contention window like giving a 36 year old a 4 year deal worth $18+ million per year. Up until you said this, I'd agreed with pretty much everything you'd said. Martinez is going to get $18+ million per year, Headley should be $15 million or under, even with the Yankees bidding on him. Yeah, this, all of it.^^ The only only thing I'd like to add is that pretty much everyone knows that if/when Anderson makes it to the pros, it will be his bat that carried him there. His defense has been a question mark since before he was drafted so its nothing new really, just something we hope he can improve is all. Its why he's been speculated to end up at 2B or even CF. Besides, at 21, he can still improve enough to be an average defensive SS someday.

Now this is a guy the Sox should go very very hard after. I would be asking Abreu and Alexei to be salesmen while telling JR he WILL open up the wallet and offer this kid a contract he will not refuse. I know other teams will be all over this kid but the Sox just have to find a way and maybe this is the year they over spend like the Yanks, Cubs etc have in the past.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 06:35 PM) No amount of bats are going to be worth the price of watching a sham of a bullpen choke up leads late. That's the biggest fix on the table. That and a LF'er. I could not agree more! QUOTE (Bigsoxhurt35 @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 07:37 PM) I would like to add Panda but the Red Sox are going to go hard after him. Panda is my first FA choice to sign but he's looking for over 100M+ and 6-7 years so I'm kinda doubting JR goes that long for that much.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 06:59 PM) For me it all depends on the price? At 3/$48M I would definitely sign him. Add another year or a few million in AAV and I'll pass. And while I totally understand the age concerns, I think people are overvaluing the loss of a 2nd round pick. If you think Marinez can be an impact bat over the life of the contract, then the loss of the draft pick (and bonus pool) shouldn't even factor into the decision. Supposedly VMart is looking for a 4 year deal with a contender and at 36, I believe it. VMart alone does not make the Sox a contender which means the Sox would need to get holes filled first so the Sox can go to VMart and show how they have taken steps to make the team better and tell VMart that he's the finishing touch to a Sox contender. I cannot stress this enough, do not get your hopes up Sox fans. Stop believing what idiots like Levine have written. DH is only one of the holes to fill on the Sox along with LF, two or maybe even three bullpen spots, 2B , possibly a starting pitcher and a case could be made for a defensive upgrade at 3B. That's a lot of holes to fill in one off season and a very hard sell to VMart. Sorry, I just don't see VMart being interested and that doesn't include the love spat between he and Sale.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 05:29 PM) ok I found 1 of the 2 articles I was reading. I was trying to figure out if the M's would still be interested in DV. here is the snippet. How high the Ms are willing to go is a question, but a 3/$60M+ contract with a 4th year option here is the link http://seattlesportsinsider.com/posts/stat...-and-some-ideas I found this too... http://www.freep.com/story/sports/mlb/tige...gency/17850599/ "The agent, who requested anonymity, said he doesn't think Martinez will be difficult to please in the Tigers' situation – a familiar team with a formidable chance at the World Series next year – and expects him to get more than the three-year, $50 million contract the Yankees gave Carlos Beltran after his age 36 season." I think the 18M per year range is likely where he ends up. Another thing Sox fans need to consider is that teams with a better chance of being contenders will be after VMart and at almost 36 years old you can bet that will be a huge factor in his decision. Teams like Detroit, Seattle, Baltimore, KC are closer to contention and if the Yanks don't go after or sign Headley you can bet they would have interest in VMart as well. I just don't see much interest from VMart in playing for a Sox team that won 73 games last season. I'm not trying to be a Debbie downer to fellow Sox fans, just trying to be realistic. Don't listen to the idiot sports writers.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 05:32 PM) why??? get Bruce for what 2 yrs??? Not Bruce, he's a RF, although he does have a 2017 option worth 13M so he could be had for three years... I would be willing to use Montas as part of a package for a starting pitcher.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 04:44 PM) Bruce and Viciedo aren't even close to the same player. Bruce is only 27 years old. I'd bet it's a down year way before I'd think he suddenly forgot how to hit entering his prime. If he was like 32 or 33, you could argue he's getting old and may be set for a decline. But at 27, I'd put money on just a down year. Also, I think you guys are overrating Montas a bit here. He's probably our 4th best pitching prospect at this point. I'd put Rodon, Danish and Spencer Adams all above him (Not now, but ceiling wise). I'd gladly give up that and a utility infielder for a guy who could be an all-star again very soon. I think my hang up with Montas is that I'm not expecting the Sox to fill any holes in the rotation through FA over the next few years and would prefer to have as many young starting options as possible. Sale, Q and Rodon are the future but outside of that who knows. Now, if the Sox use Montas to acquire a starting pitcher, that's a different story.