BlackSox13

This thread has hit an all time low. Dump Dunn , pay him to stay off the team to play for another... Sign an inconsistent SP to a multi- year deal... Yes, good idea, sign another player to another potentially bad contract so the people b****ing about Dunn have someone new to b**** about after Dunn is gone. Let's complain about how 1 more year of Dunn takes at-bats away from other players but let's sign a starting pitcher to a 4 year contract because he surely wouldn't take starts away from any of the quality pitching prospects the sox have that are ready now and the ones that could be ready in a year or two. Sounds like a short-bus merry-go-round of idiocracy.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 07:31 PM) Would you trade a 2nd round pick for Adam Dunn at the end of next year? I sure as hell wouldnt. Nope, and another reason why best case scenario is to hope he hits well enough be traded come June/July.

QUOTE (IowaSoxFan @ Jan 30, 2014 -> 05:10 PM) I am hoping that the Sox make him a QO at the end of the year and he declines. The Sox get a solid prospect for him and dont have a power vaccum from the LH side of the plate this year. I understand that the scenario is unlikely, but its probably not impossible that Dunn will be looking for multiple years instead of one. I could see a team give him a 3/$16-18M next winter. The Twins for instance are going to be starved for power, have a hole at DH and their 1st pick will (most likely) be protected. Anyway, that is what I hope. Yeah, I'm not really sure how this would work out. Dunn doesn't seem happy in Chicago, the fans arent happy with Dunn and the Sox seem like they would prefer to trade him, so he could refuse a qualifying offer to try and get a multi-year deal or a one year offer to try and rebuild his value. Some team out there might take a chance depending on how he hits this year. I think best case scenario is hope he hits well enough to be traded come June/July , wish him well and move on.

Oh boy, here we go again. If you want to put Dunn on waivers to see if a team claims him and his salary like Toronto did with Rios, I can see that. If you find a team willing to trade a prospect for Dunn, I can see that. If you hope Dunn hits well enough to be traded come June/July, I can see that. If you want to offer a bit of money in a trade for another teams prospect, I can see that. What I can't see is paying Dunn's entire salary while he plays for another team. This makes zero sense whatsoever. If he was blocking a young baseball mashing prospect that was destined for 1B/DH then maybe I could see that but its not the case. We've already put up with Dunn for 3 of the 4 years on his contract so I think if we have to we can put up with one more season. With the current state of the Sox, there are more important issues than Adam Dunn. Just to offer another point of view here. It wouldn't surprise me if Dunn turned out to be the classic case of a slugger that hit well in the last year of his contract before hitting free agency. Who knows, maybe the Sox contend long enough to put more butts in the seats because of it.

Yes, this is a no brainer.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 10:19 AM) Cubs projected with worst record in baseball for 2014 http://www.csnchicago.com/cubs/cubs-projec...rst-record-2014 67-95? That might turn out to be generous. As of right now I think the cubs could very well lose 100-105 games, I don't think they have bottomed out just yet. Say hello to the #1 pick in the June 2015 draft cub fans.

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 10:39 AM) I think he's saying that, in the case that we trade for him instead of sending him back, we then put him in AA instead of throwing him onto the 25-man OK, that would make sense then. We'll see how he does in ST and go from there.

QUOTE (hammerhead johnson @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 10:18 AM) Has there been a catcher in the history of major league baseball who skipped both Double & Triple A? You're telling me that this guy is ready to handle a major league pitching staff? You guys may have your reasoning, but you're not seeing the forest. I'm down with Stan Bahnsen's plan. It's Double A, or back to the Nationals. You asked a question that was answered with multiple reasons yet were the ones not seeing the forrest? I can see the forrest just fine and the forrest is called spring training. Let's see what Nieto can before we send him back to where he came from, Phehley and Flowers aren't the stiffest competition out there by any means. Oh one more thing, any player selected in the rule 5 draft must remain on the 25 man roster for the entire season or be sent back to his former team, AA won't be an option.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Jan 28, 2014 -> 12:56 AM) I have Nieto on my starting lineup for a couple reasons. 1) Being a rule-V pick, he has to stay on the roster this season, so I'm going to assume that they will at the very least break camp with him on the 25-man to see what they've got. 2) I don't have him as the backup simply because I feel/hope the Sox realize that Flowers is nothing more than a warm body, so I am hoping Nieto will get a chance to prove he can be the tallest midget. 3) Nieto is a switch hitter, and this lineup is largely devoid of left-handed hitters. And the reason why I choose Phegley as the odd man out is because he could use some time in AAA to improve his game and I believe he is the only one of the 3 guys that can be safely placed in AAA. (Nieto can't, and Flowers would have to pass through waivers, although he probably would). These are the exact reasons why I have Nieto in my starting lineup. Phengley has options left so its easy to put him back at AAA while we see how a platoon of Flowers and Nieto works out.

Interesting piece ESPN did on ballpark factors in 2013. http://espn.go.com/mlb/stats/parkfactor/_/sort/HRFactor Santana's splits... http://mlb.mlb.com/team/player.jsp?player_...l='ALL' Santana gave up 26 HR's pitching for the Royals last year and 18 of those in Kauffman stadium which is much more pitcher friendly than the Cell. Ervin pitching at the Cell for a big contract is just a bad idea, period. Jimenez walked 80 batters in 182 2/3 IP. We all know how walks lead to runs scored and that won't translate well in a HR paradise like the Cell. So signing sir walk a lot to a big contract to pitch at the Cell is another bad idea.

While were playing the what if game... What if the Sox continue to get good production from Sale and Q? What if Danks returns to form? What if Johnson solidifies his spot in the rotation? What if the Sox get just average production from the fifth starter (Paulino, Surkamp, Rienzo)? What if the Sox are somehow in contention near the trade deadline? What if the Sox needed a hitter to help the offense? What if the Sox didn't spend money on a starting pitcher this off season? What if the Sox had extra money to make a mid season trade for a higher priced hitter to continue contending for 2014 and beyond? Oh the what if possibilities... The point is, given the Sox poor offense last year and the amount of youth that will be infused this year its possible at some point they could use the help and it would be nice if money was there when that time came. Even if they are not in contention they can still take on a higher salary position player that could help set up the 2015 team and beyond.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 26, 2014 -> 09:33 PM) I think those of us advocating signing a starter that requires draft pick compensation realize Hahn isn't going to do it, but is it really the right thing to do? You know for all the hope of spending to fill holes this offseason the Sox have gotten away really cheap so far . . . I wouldn't do but it but that's just my opinion. It adds up to me - A 99 loss team, a high draft pick, a bad but improving farm system, a team not expected to compete in 14 , running low on players worth trading that they aren't trying to hold on to, down ticket sales in a down economy. I can see why. I would rather take my chances on young pitcher that has the potential to get better over a pitcher that is going to begin his decline. Also, if we don't spend the money this year it can be used on a free agent hitter or trade for higher cost hitter to replace Dunn next offseason. Not sure what next years free agents will look like. Same principal if we slide Tank over to DH, we can sign/trade for a LF with some left handed pop.

Uh guys. This is all completely irrelevant now. Hahn has already said they won't sign a player that could cost drat pick, he's also said they aren't interested in signing a FA pitcher and he's also said they went after Tanaka based on his age and talent. So what's the fuss over? For those in favor of signing a FA starter, might I suggest sending an email to Hahn and co. since hes the one negotiating deals instead of arguing over something thats an improbability.

After the trade deadline... 1- Eaton CF 2- C.Sanchez SS 3- Avi RF 4- Abreu 1B 5- Dunn DH 6- Tank LF 7- Davidson 3B 8- Nieto C 9- Semien 2B Bench of Paulie, L. Garcia, Flowers and Jordan Danks after Gillespie, Beckham, ADA and Keppinger have been traded. Yeah I know this is California dreamin!

QUOTE (Butter Parque @ Jan 26, 2014 -> 08:24 PM) I know we don't have that many choices, but I just do t think its ideal for Avi to have him starting the season in the 3 hole. That's a lot of pressure on a very young kid. Ideally, you'd like to have him in the 5 hole. Unfortunately, we just don't have many other options. We could put Abreu in the 3-hole, but he's also going to need time to adjust to the league. I still think by mid season that we're going to have a strong 3-4-5 in Abreu-Dunn-Avi On a competitive team I would agree but as of right now the Sox aren't expected to be competitive so there's really no pressure on Avi. If he struggles in the 3 hole then slide him down in the order. I just like his ability to hit to all fields and his potential for a higher BA than what we can expect from Dunn and I really don't know what to expect from Abreu.

As the team sits now. 1- Eaton CF 2- Ramirez SS 3- A.Garcia RF 4- Dunn DH 5- Abreu 1B 6- Tank LF 7- Gillespie/ Kepp platoon 3B 8- Flowers C 9- Beckham 2B The bench is Paulie, Keppinger, Nieto and ADA assuming we have a 4 man bench. This leaves Davidson, Phegley and Leury at AAA waiting for a callup. Hopefully Beckham, Gillespie and Keppinger hit well enough to be traded at the deadline to open up 3rd for Davidson and 2nd for one of Sanchez, Leury or Semien.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Jan 26, 2014 -> 01:32 PM) I think the treatment of Dunn by the fans is frustration that he's still on the team and this is the way to get that message to management. Sox management must have thought there wasn't a problem otherwise he wouldn't be at the event. I think the comment to Robin was just plain dumb and an assinine thing to say and I'm not a fan of him as a manager. I don't blame the fans for their frustration with Dunn, im frustrated too after three seasons of his performance. Truthfully I don't think what was said about Dunn was terrible at all, that fan could have said much much worse. The fan just expressed his frustration that Dunn was still in a Sox uni, no big deal to me. I wouldn't have done it but I wouldn't have attended that seminar because I'm frustrated with Dunn's performance. After 99 losses, high ticket prices, high concessions etc and given this is a free country the fans are well within their right to voice their frustraton.

The sox really messed up here. Dunn has been hearing it from the fans for a while now because of his s*** performance and high salary, so wtf was the front office thinking when they asked Dunn to attend Soxfest? Talk about setting the guy up for failure. Bad idea by the Sox for asking, bad idea by Dunn for accepting.

The Sox can always trade a good pitching prospect for a good hitting prospect so don't understand the perceived necessity for a position player. Teams are always looking for good young pitching, look at the Cubs.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 25, 2014 -> 05:48 PM) Then why would they want the Sox to release him and pay him for nothing? Between booing Dunn or cheering when a blockhead said they wanted him gone, and the Ventura pulse comment, White Sox fans have no right to blast other fan bases. Ours is classless. Buying a ticket to an event shouldn't mean you can now disrespect people without consequence. From many there, it was embarrassing as a White Sox fan. I agree. What is wrong with people? I was commenting on your comparisons, not the comments made by Sox fans. You would have to ask the fans why they want to pay Dunn to not be on the team, I'm not one of them. I want Dunn gone but am not willing to pay him to stay off the team. Personally I would not have said the things that were said but thats just me. When you're a fan of a 99 loss team, spending alot of money just to see a game (tickets, concessions, parking) and watch Dunn at 15m per year suck you tend to get a little frustrated, especially after watching Dunn hack it up for three seasons already. I don't agree with the comments but I understand the frustration.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jan 25, 2014 -> 04:06 PM) What is funny is as bad as Dunn was last year, his OBP and OPS was almost identical to Avasail Garcia's is a White Sox uniform. I guess expecting people to be classy is a bit much. Bo Jackson won't get booed out of the Palmer House, but check his White Sox numbers vs. Dunn's. Avi isn't making 15M per year and is only 22. Dunn hasn't had a hip replaced like Bo and Dunn could only dream of being the athlete Bo was. Huge differences!

QUOTE (ScottyDo @ Jan 25, 2014 -> 09:46 AM) Hahn on 670: "At this point in time, we're not going to do anything that costs us a draft pick." Right, Hanhn said this literally two months ago or more and yet 17 pages later the war wages on. A team coming off of a 99 loss season has no logical reason to do anything that would cost them draft picks when they have one of the worst farms in baseball and the #3 pick overall in a draft that is loaded with talent (according to scouts).

If the Sox were closer to contending I would be all for Santana but Jimenez? No way. Jimenez appears to be be a classic example of pitching well just before FA. Yeah his 2013 numbers looked good but he walked ALOT of batters as he always has and that will catch up to him, thankfully he won't be wearing a Sox uni when it does. I did like the idea of Garza but after seeing some good points made in this thread and the Hahn thread I've changed my mind regardless if the brewers do not sign him. Where the Sox currently stand it makes sense to see what the young pitchers can do in 2014. After this season we can make adjustments through FA, trades or even call ups. We'll also have more salary coming off the books with Dunn and possibly others too.

QUOTE (hi8is @ Jan 22, 2014 -> 05:14 PM) Not to mention that whole Kershaw and Tanaka big-ass contract fest we just witnessed. Pitching is at a premium like never before and we're entering into a new era of the dead ball IMO. Pitching, pitching, and more pitching. Our ability to nab arms and meld them into useful contributors will allow us to right this ship before many other rebuilding clubs. Oh man you're not kidding. Can you imagine how much Sale's extension would cost now? Yikes! Smart move by Hahn. What you're describing with pitching is what the Cards have been doing in their system with Lynn, Wacha, Miller and Martinez. This is a big reason why the Cards have sustained success year in and year out and love that the Sox are trying to do the same. You can extend the guys that are truly special like Sale and trade they others to fill holes before they become too costly , kind of like Beane does. Then call up from your deep farm to fill the pitching hole that was created from the trade. Helps keep the payroll from blowing up by keeping young, hungry talent in the mix.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 22, 2014 -> 02:41 PM) Shoulder. Lost a ton of velocity and overall quality of his pitches OK, thanks. I would steer clear of Hansen then, it reminds of Sirotka with his torn labrum after he was traded to Toronto. Better off with what we have. QUOTE (hi8is @ Jan 22, 2014 -> 04:49 PM) Say hello to drafting a starter at number three in this years draft. I would say this is the best bet. Sounds like the Sox aren't going after FA starting pitching and they do a good job of drafting and developing young pitching talent so it makes the most sense.