Southwest Sider

Just when things are starting to look very bright for the Hawks, this happens. Crow!!! There will be plenty of time for you to dance after your NHL career is over!! Well, Raanta played well when Crow was injured last December. Hopefully he can do that again. And if not... there is Darling.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 2, 2014 -> 12:45 PM) I don't think we want to see the White Sox trade for Samardzija. I really don't. Beane typically asks for and gets the moon for his players. I've read a lot of your posts here before creating an account, and you seem like a very knowledgeable poster. A post of mine detailing an offer I'd make for Shark is in the last page. Do you have any thoughts on it? Would you do that deal? Would the Sox do that deal? Would Beane die of laughter? It's clear the Red Sox can surpass that deal, but if they don't....

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 2, 2014 -> 11:53 AM) I think they could easily acquire both Lester and Samardzija. Frankly, they need to as their rotation is incredibly thin. Frankly, the more I think about this, the more I think Beane is using the White Sox as leverage against the Red Sox. The Red Sox are in a much better position to trade for Samardzija both regarding their minor league depth, their major league team, and their ability to spend. I just don't think the White Sox can afford to trade quite a few of their guys right now. Good point... sigh. I can only hope that Boston doesn't blow Beane away with an offer. If given the choice between two packages of similar values between White and Red Sox, I would have to think he would choose the White Sox offer if only to not bolster an opponent that he may see as more of a present-time threat to his World Series chances.

QUOTE (MDWhiteSoxFan @ Dec 2, 2014 -> 11:50 AM) What in your mind does Hahn give up for Shark that would be in lines with the future plans? I'm not too knowledgeable about White Sox prospects, so ultimately whatever deal I put out there is probably either not good enough, or too good. I'm also biased, because I like Semien and think he can become a quality major league player. Personally, I like to pencil him in as the 2B of the future, which leaves him out of this deal. Obviously, everyone loves Anderson and many are penciling him as the SS of the future. He's not in my deal. It also seems like the Sox are not interested in punting 2015, which means that we need Alexei Ramirez and he cannot be traded. I'd try to sell Beane on a 3 or 4 player deal. I would throw out an offer of Montas, Sanchez, Davidson and maybe one of our players who could be deemed as a "lottery ticket". Not really sure who fits that profile. For us, yes it would stink to lose Montas, but we've already got what I perceive to be our RF of the future out of the Peavy deal, and if we can use one of the pieces of that deal to bring in another SP, I'm all for it. He is a promising player and you know, you have to give up something to get something. Sanchez is another player I like what I saw from in limited ML action, and hopefully Beane did too. This will give him another MIF prospect to work with and he will have a nice surplus should he be interested in trading any of them in the future. Finally, it seems that Billy Beane likes "buy low" candidates, and Davidson could be a real target for him (or he could not). He had a bad year but he's still a younger guy and hopefully learning. I don't think Davidson is "done" by any stretch of the imagination, and he could end up being better for it. Time will tell. For me, I like that deal for the Sox because we give up the 2nd best player from the Peavy deal, our acquisition from the Reed deal, and one or two of our homegrown types for a legit #2/3 pitcher, with that idea that the Sox will aggressively pursue a semi-longterm deal. I know there has been debate in this thread about if we should even bother giving Shark an extension, but I think it would make a lot of sense to do that for a couple of reasons. 1) He seems to be durable, with a delivery that doesn't seem to be too susceptible to injury. 2) He really is a good pitcher, and you can never have enough really good pitchers. 3) It is conceivable that he could take a slight discount, especially if the Sox give him an offer competitive with what the market bears for Lester and Shields. It sucks to think about sinking $20 million into one player, but you will never be lucky enough to have a complete rotation with Sale/Quintana type players for the kind of money they are making. One of these days, as much as the Reinsdorf may not like it, the Sox are going to have to be players in the actual starting pitching market. Shark seems like as good a bet as any. I like him better then Shields. He should cost less then Lester. He will cost less then Scherzer. If, for some reason, you can't agree to a deal with Shark, then you get to extend a qualifying offer, and move on to a pretty decent class of free agents. You absolutely pursue one of Cueto, Price, Latos, Zimmermann, Porcello and of course, Shark with the idea that you will sign one of them. It's plain and simple, the Sox need another great starting pitcher, and they're going to want one that they can pencil into the rotation for a few seasons. You're not going to sign Shields, Lester or Scherzer, but you still at least want one for the rotation for 2015. Trade for Shark, do everything you can to resign him. If all else fails, sign a free agent next offseason. Either way, you're going to have to pay them the big bucks. It all depends on if Beane is asking us to mortgage our future. Any deal involving Anderson and Semien I am not cool with unless the deal is expanded to include more players coming from Oakland.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 2, 2014 -> 11:09 AM) Tracey Myers ‏@TramyersCSN 17m17 minutes ago Patrick Sharp joining the #Blackhawks at practice today. Excellent. It will be nice to have Sharp back on the point soon. If the team keeps playing like this, and the power play gets a boost.... look out NHL.

I'd kill to know how far apart Beane and Hahn are. And what kind of deal Boston is offering. They may not even have one on the table yet. Boston might be waiting for Lester to decide where he's signing before making a real offer for Shark. That makes it tougher for Hahn, because he may be offering a nice deal for Shark, one that Beane might even consider taking, but Beane also knows that if Lester signs with anyone other then Boston, he could potentially get a better deal from them. Even though I can't stand the Red Sox, it is undeniable that they can spend a lot of money. I guess I'm hoping that they do sign Lester, so that the other major bidder for Shark is now out of the bidding.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 30, 2014 -> 10:34 AM) so much for trading with Minny, Det and Cle, uh. In certain situations, it can be okay, heh. Like a couple years ago when we were in the race and traded for Liriano. Deals like those seem to happen only during the season when it becomes clear where your team stands. Minny knew they were out, so they traded us Liriano. Sox knew they were out, so they traded Peavy to Boston. The offseason is so different, though. Minnesota, right now, has hopes of winning the division. Therefore it would be almost unfathomable to deal with the White Sox even if both teams improved from the deal. What I'm getting at, though, is that Boston has had it FAR too easy this offseason up to this point. They signed two of the biggest bats available. Forget the White Sox, why would any AL team be interested in helping the Red Sox acquire a good starting pitcher for Cespedes, someone that they want to get rid of? Boston should have to pay out the nose to trade for a good starting pitcher.

Count me OUT if we're pretty much trading Alexei for Cespedes. I want an outfielder as much as the next guy, but not for our short stop. And not a guy like Cespedes. And certainly not to help an AL team like Boston get better.

A beautiful finish to the road trip. I love how this team tends to bond on the circus trip. This is a great group of guys. 2 of the next 3 games are against divisional opponents who are ahead of us in the standings. Time to keep this momentum rolling and get closer to where we need to be; First Place.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 02:30 PM) A prospect who has already reached AA (Anderson) and should be in most MLB top 50 lists or a prospect who has already gotten to the big leagues (Semien) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> a 2nd round pick. I could probably add more >>> and still be accurate. I don't know. I just don't think the Billy Beane can use the fact that he used Russel in a package of players to acquire Shark against the Sox to get them to include Anderson. Absolutely, Shark has value and he will require promising players, but we are talking about one of our best prospects and if Beane is trying to make this trade happen more then Hahn (which it almost seems like... the A's have been the most active team this offseason), then odds are Anderson is not in the deal. In which case I believe it becomes a no brainer to trade for Shark rather then signing Shields. Still.... the sad faced emoticons that Anderson tweeted earlier....

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 02:25 PM) $20 mil a year is pretty close to the going rate for a #2-#3 starter on the FA market these days, which is why this makes so little sense. That's the kind of money it'll take to extend the guy and I don't know why the White Sox are better off trading a top flight player for the right to do that when they could just go out and buy a free agent or two if they were willing to blow that kind of money on a pitcher. If we're going to spend >$80 million on a pitcher, f*** it, hold onto Anderson and Semien and go sign Shields. That makes a lot of sense. The only thing I can think of is that maybe the Sox feel Shark has a better chance of "lasting" through a 4-5 year contract as opposed to Shields. There's also the value of giving the Royals a 2nd round pick should the Sox sign Shields, which I imagine they aren't too keen on doing either. The possibilities become, assuming Shark and Shields would get the same contract in free agency: Prospect(s)(hopefully not Anderson) for Shark 2nd round pick to KC for Shields

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 02:13 PM) So in turn, they would allow the Sox to talk extension with Shark in exchange for more/better assets? I guess that makes sense. I just can't see the Sox being able to sign him to the contract he would get in FA. If this scenario we're speaking of wasn't a hypothetical, and instead what is actually happening behind the scenes, I see the Sox selling the team and Chicago to Samardazija, offering him more than the Cubs offered but less than his market value, and Samardzija's team politely says no, and it's on to the next RHSP option for the Sox. Holy run-on sentence. You know what I just thought of that's quite interesting... the market for starting pitchers this offseason has not developed yet! I'm not saying that Shark would take a lowball offer... but if offered a "fair deal" (4/80 with a vesting option for a 5th year?), somehow Shark, a pitcher already under contract, would be the pitcher who sets things in motion for the SP market. And all of a sudden GMs around the league have a little bit of leverage against Lester, Scherzer and Shields. To add a little bit more to that thought... Scott Boras has been talking all offseason about how Max Scherzer actually has the arm of a younger pitcher. Less pitches, less mileage. He's trying to use that as a big selling point to get Scherzer a 200 million dollar contract. Information has been posted in this thread about how Shark is almost in the same boat as Max Scherzer in regards to "mileage". Albeit, he's not on the same level as Scherzer as a pitcher, but all of a sudden GMs would be able to dispel Boras' selling point. "Yeah Scott, we know Max has thrown less pitches then a typical 30 year old, but so has Shark, and look what he signed for" Getting way way ahead of myself here, but all in good fun.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 02:01 PM) Can someone get me up to speed on where the Upton rumors are coming from? There's not nearly as much smoke to the Upton rumors as there are to the Shark rumors. There was a tweet (of course) that the A's were in talks with Atlanta about Upton and Gattis. Speculation from here (myself included) started that maybe this would be a 3 team deal, with many salivating at the thought of Upton and Shark in a Sox uniform. It could be a completely separate deal for Oakland altogether though. But you never know.

Corey Perry is officially on my s*** list. That guy is a total loser. We have one more game with these guys, and I hope someone lights him up. Happy to get the win, too. Hawks are starting to look real good. I'm very excited to see Richards excelling with Kane and Versteeg. They are helping keep the team afloat while the Toews-Hossa-Saad line gets over their scoring funk. Hopefully the Hawks have enough energy to come out tonight and beat the Kings! I know they will be excited for the game... should be a good one tonight.

With reports coming about Atlanta supposedly not being in a rush to trade Upton (although it could be a ploy by Atlanta to extract last-minute value from him), I'm becoming more skeptical that this is a 3 team deal. It's still a distinct possibility, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were involved at the end. But it sure seems like this is going to be strictly a White Sox- A's trade, with more value coming from the Sox to the A's if Shark were to agree to an extension prior to the trade. I don't know how that would work out, but interesting stuff nonetheless.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 01:53 PM) For all we know the Red Sox could be on the verge of sending some of their surplus to Oakland for Samardzija and the Sox are Beane's leveraging ploy. Ahhh, a wonderful point! I love MLB offseasons

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 29, 2014 -> 01:20 PM) You're certainly right. Even recently Pandoval and Ramirez to Boston was broken by teenagers. That being said, it's not like the Sox to have their stuff leaked. It's happened, but I wouldn't expect it. Actually, I believe that Hahn isn't a guy that likes to fly under the radar like Ken Williams does. Even KW seems to have bought into the new philosophy regarding organizational leaks by talking about how excited he is about some of these potential big deals that are out there. That's never something we would have heard a few years ago. I think the days of flying under the radar are gone, and for good reason. You can use the media in your favor by leaking certain things. Maybe Rick put it out there that there were talks with the Dodgers about an Alexei deal in an effort to also get the Mets to make a real offer. Another possibility is leaking interest in someone like Melky Cabrera in an effort to help coerce a team into trading the Sox an outfielder. I'm just guessing, but you never know. Plus, it has to be very difficult to operate under the radar. As few leaks as humanly possible, in a world where we all want to tell our best friends this amazing news that we heard.

This is exciting! Sounds a lot like a 3 team trade is coming together... and here I thought we'd have to wait til December for the real excitement to begin!

As fun as it can be to dream up trade scenarios, it's true that our "Abreu-Sale" contention window effectively closes by trading Sale. Even if you get something absolutely ridiculous like Pedroia + 3 to 5 top prospects, you are short an elite pitcher and all of a sudden scrambling to sign Scherzer or Lester.. neither of which I estimate we would win the bidding for. Our offense would be great, but our pitching would take a major blow. Count me in what I see as the majority who wants to try and win a championship with Sale and Abreu. The Sox feel the same way. Sale could be as important to us as Bumgarner was to the Giants, should the Sox make it to the World Series. Keep adding to this team and make some more smart trades, instead of trading Sale, and we'll be better for it.

Good win last night against the divisional foe. I'm pleased that we were able to avoid going to overtime, costing the Avs a precious point in the standings. To me, beating our divisional (and to a lesser extent, conference) foes in regulation is going to be a key to our season. The Hawks looked amped up and ready to play, and with the win they need to keep that momentum because the next 3 games are huge for us. We have the top team in the conference, the defending Stanley Cup champs, and our biggest rival. Let's go, Hawks!

For Chris Sale, an "enticing" package of "cobbled" together "guys who do little on a small scale" isn't enough. I need an "extreme" package of "your best guys" put together who will "deplete your farm system". Plus Pedroia. I like that one. Thanks for suggesting it, HickoryHuskers :-)

QUOTE (TheTruth05 @ Nov 24, 2014 -> 10:06 AM) 3 games in 4 days takes a toll, credit to the Canucks for always playing the Hawks extra hard. Agreed. It would be awesome to win all the circus trip games, but it just isn't realistic. Hawks need to rest up and come back hard against our divisional opponent, Colorado, on Wednesday. As an aside, those Canuck fans hold grudges well, huh? The more the game went on and the drunker the fans got, the more they remembered to boo Duncan Keith. Personally, I don't even remember who gave Toews that concussion a few years ago. And I had to be reminded about the Penguins player who laid out Toews last year. Sure, I was calling for heads when they happened, but... life goes on. Daniel Sedin is fine and he's playing just fine. His career wasn't ruined. Move on, Canucks fans.

I didn't really see it coming, but it's true, it almost makes too much sense to sign LaRoche. The Pros: -No draft pick compensation -Didn't have to trade a prospect or Alexei Ramirez for him -2 year contract -Lefty -Power bat -Doesn't strike out a ton -Good defense at 1st base. -Great teammate -Can become one of a teams "leaders" The Cons: -Getting up there in age, potential for a dropoff? -Can't hit lefties well Feel free to add more to my list, but I'm certain Sox brass did something like this as well and came to the conclusion that it just makes too much sense. He's not going to push our club over the top, but he is a GREAT complementary piece to a winning ballclub. More little moves like this, and one or two big ones and we're looking at an offseason reminiscent of that after the 2004 season.

Interesting that Eddie O is doing the intermission show. Must have some east coast games to do this weekend and figured he may as well stay close rather then heading out west.