Southwest Sider

I'd never underestimate Ilitch's ability to just decide to sign someone. I think he's one of those owners who might just tell Dave Dombrowski to go sign Scherzer, at whatever cost.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 11, 2014 -> 11:41 AM) Definitely one more, maybe two. Does "one move" equate to something like shipping out Viciedo and bringing in another OF, or does that count as the 2 moves? I'd have to believe it counts as one, because they have to replace Viciedo somehow if they trade him... and thats not a maybe.

Disclaimer: The following post is only based off of your traditional stats. I am fully aware that advanced stats are the stats of the now, but I am not well-versed in them, and not confident enough to use them in context. I would love it if some advanced stats gurus could follow this post up and debunk and/or back up any of the arguments I have provided below. He brings up a valid point, and even Rick Hahn has alluded to it. We want to get more athletic in LF. Viciedo is just not athletic enough. I was completely dumbfounded when someone in this forum posted that Viciedo actually played at a level below replacement level... yet still hit 21 home runs! To me, that speaks to how bad he really is defensively. Yet, he is still young enough to get better offensively. And we also want to do that, right? I'm going to try and "pencil" in your basic, old school stats for each of our current starting position players to the degree that the Sox think these guys can and will produce. I know that they may be overly optimistic, and injuries could derail it (see Avi Garcia), but with a full, healthy season for each player, this is what I think we can reasonably accept. DH Abreu- .290 AVG, 30 HR, 100 RBI with potential for even higher numbers in all 3 categories C Flowers- .240 AVG, 15 HR 50 RBI 1B Laroche- .250 AVG, 20 HR, 75 RBI with above average defense 2B Sanchez/Johnson- Wild Card. Don't know what to expect, but definitely to expect low power numbers and average to above average defense with speed SS Ramirez -.270 AVG 15 HR 65 RBI with above average defense and some speed 3B Gillaspie- .260 AVG 10 HR 50 RBI with hopefully improving defense and potential for higher AVG and RBI should the Sox expect improvement in his offensive game LF Viciedo - .230 AVG 20 HR 60 RBI with bad defense CF Eaton- .290 AVG 5 HR 50 RBI with great defense and speed RF Garcia- Another Wild Card but I believe the Sox expect something in the neighborhood of .270 20 HR and 80 RBI, with improving defense and good speed. Finding an upgrade for Viciedo that not only matches his 20 HR output, but vastly improves the defense is going to be tough. As we can see, I don't pencil in the Sox starters for over 150 Home runs. Not exactly a dealbreaker, but in this scenario you ideally don't want to "lose" Viciedos 20 home runs and only get a good defensive replacement, especially when the Sox play in a home run hitters ballpark. Now, how many players are actually out there that can improve us that we can feasibly acquire? I'm all about Dickerson as much as the next guy, but our farm system would then become depleted if we traded for him. I assume that they would want a package starting with Anderson and Montas and then more on top of that. If that were to happen, then we can safely say that Ken Williams still has his mark on this team Melky Cabrera is another option that I would like, provided we can find a taker for Danks and Viciedos contracts. I think this is the most likely scenario, unless the Sox are adamant about not buying players with steroid history. But I say, if the man is clean now, and the man is the best fit for us, this is still a business and you have to do what is best for the team. Melky should provide average to above-average defense and 20 HRs at the Cell. You get your Viciedo upgrade without losing the home runs, without losing prospects, and losing only a 3rd round pick. Play the game with the Mariners for a bit until they offer something you can stomach for Viciedo... and then there's the business of Danks contract. Presumably we could not add Cabrera to this team without finding a taker for his contract. It sucks that we couldn't just bite the bullet and add Cabrera if we couldn't trade Danks, but this is the reality of it. I really kind of want to keep Danks around for this next season, as he adds a reliable (reliable in the fact that you will most likely get a lot of innings out of him) presence to the back of our rotation. Trading him makes Noesi our #4, and ??? our #5. You'd have to be sold that Rodon is ready, and able to pitch big innings. I believe Rodon could be ready, but is he ready to pitch big innings? He pitched around 130 innings in 2013 and around 120 total innings between college and the minors in 2014. You could make the argument that he should be ready to add a couple dozen innings to that in 2015. Is 150-160 IP acceptable from your #4 starter presuming that he provides above replacement level value in those innings? It's an interesting thought... and would give the Sox the flexibility to trade Danks and sign Cabrera. Now on to the subject of 3B. We're not really sure what to expect from Gillaspie. He had an electric first half with the bat, sustaining a high batting average, but with little power. I think it's safe to say that if we tried to ask him to be a power hitter, his average would drop immensely. It's interesting to note that Conor had a great batting average for the first 3 months, and hit no home runs. Then, in July, Conor knocked out 4 home runs all while still maintaining that high average. Then came his abysmal September and August. Did Conor run out of gas? Just hit a slump? Started trying to hit home runs? The answer is not clear. What is clear is that Conor was able to hit over .300 in 3 out of the 6 months of the season, and in one of them he hit a not-so-terrible .264. As for his defense, I think you can expect to at least see marginal improvement in his game, as far as that is concerned. Ideally, from your 3B position, you want to see more power. You want at least 15 HR and 70 RBI. But what's out there? Headley? Have any other names been kicked around in rumors? There was Sandoval, and he hits a few more home runs then Conor, but I don't think the Sox viewed him as an upgrade that was worth shelling out the big bucks. I'm not trying to say Conor is as good as Pablo... but their stats weren't completely dissimilar, and I think this played into the Sox' pursuit. Conor comes cheap with lesser (not not dramatically lesser) stats then Sandoval. Not worth 100 million, I think. What would be worth the upgrade at big dollars is an Adrian Beltre type, but that's not happening. It almost seems like the Sox are "stuck" with Gillaspie, whether you believe that to be a good thing or not. He wasn't good enough that you'd feel "set" that 3B, but he wasn't bad enough that you want to spend a lot of money for a marginal upgrade. I think the Sox end up going into the season with Gillaspie as the starting 3B. And finally, the OP mentions C as a position of need, and I will go ahead and disagree here. We all know you could get better at C offensively. But at what cost? Isn't it true that Flowers provided average defense last year? That's not so bad. The guy has a little pop, but he won't hit for average and by all means I believe he has a good rapport with Sox pitchers and coaches. There have been no murmurs whatsoever of trying to find a replacement catcher, which leads me to believe the Sox are ready to go into 2015 with Flowers the starting catcher. And I don't have an issue with it. You don't need elite offensive players at every position to win the World Series. Plus, you never know, Flowers could break out for a 20 HR season and I think we'd all be very happy with that. Thanks for reading. TOO LONG; DIDNT READ Trade Viciedo and Danks Slot Rodon into rotation or find a cheap #5 starter Sign Melky Go to war with Gillaspie and Flowers, provided a player you can't pass up on becomes available (which in all likelihood, won't)

Maple Leafs’ Bernier calls Nelson Mandela ‘one of the most known athletes’ Oops.

This kid, while streaky, will always be a somewhat okay ML bat. He will probably improve over more time as well. If the kid could play a lick of defense, he may even stick with the Sox. But I just don't see a future with Viciedo and the Sox. He will never reach his old ceiling as a superstar, but he has reached his floor... Low average and OBP, 15-20 HRs, 50-70 RBIs. Not much trade value, but if the Sox can get a couple lottery tickets for him I'd be happy. We need a different answer in left field, and I'm hoping that this offseason brings it. I'm not particularly stoked about the idea of Crawford, Bruce or Melky. The Sox reallly need an outfielder who is a plus defender and can also hit in the very least as well as Viciedo. That will be tough to come by. I think I like Melky the most out of all of them simply because he will only cost money and a 3rd round pick... but I'm not in for Melky for a 5 year deal.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 9, 2014 -> 12:27 PM) Well, he did just say it is a "dream come true", so maybe 6 years and $100M would sound appealing to him. Also, a dream come true.

Just getting back to Ynoa for a second. Maybe I'm placing a little too much faith into our front office and talent evaluators, but there's no doubt to me that the White Sox were the team who wanted to expand this deal to include Ynoa. It could explain the weeklong or so holdup. The Sox see something that they really like in Ynoa and targeted him, and got their man. He's a good buy low candidate. Good for the Sox. The front office has to be very pleased right now.

Ynoa a bust? Dudes just turned 23. Coop'll fix 'em and we just snagged another bullpen piece. Yeah buddy!!! Edit: probably not this year though. Still hasn't cracked AA.

It seems the Sox are trying to move Danks, but if that doesn't happen then this is what happens next season. Your rotation is set. Nothing Rodon can do to change that unless Noesi absolutely lays an egg in Spring Training. You have a couple of months to see what you have in Danks and Noesi. I know a lot have soured on Johnny, but I still believe he can be a good #4/#5 type (maybe a little overpaid but oh well). Noesi also shows promise and definitely deserves a shot to see what he can give us. You have Rodon continue to adjust to life as a professional baseball player, without thrusting him into the spotlight. If Danks or Noesi suck or someone gets injured, you use someone else until Rodons correct arbitration clock time. If our rotation is SOLID, and we are contending, bring up Rodon in the bullpen. If our rotation is solid but for some reason we are not contending, let Rodon finish the season in the minors accumulating innings. That's my two cents.

I wasn't a huge fan of trading a guy like Semien. He had some nice clutch hits last year, which helped me become a fan of his. But I also really want Samardzija in this rotation, and Semien seems like the exact kind of guy that Billy Beane would target. High OBP potential. Bassitt is another nice piece, as well. Given the choice between Noesi and Bassitt, I think I keep Noesi. I'm happy with the fact that we were able to keep Anderson and a few of our other core prospects. The discussion in the last few pages as revolved a lot around the question of should the Sox be trying to contend now. Obviously, they are, but are they making the right call? I think you have to consider that the contention window has kind of "prematurely" (if you will) opened. A couple years ago we just had Sale, and while Sale is awesome, if you don't have the right pieces in place, then you cannot contend. But then you start to consider that we also have Quintana, Abreu and Eaton. 1 more elite player, and 2 more if-not-elite-then-very-good players who are good NOW. If you wait one or two years to go for it, then who knows what kind of position you could be in. Maybe the Sox wait a whole 2 more seasons before deciding to go for it, but as they get to the offseason players who were good now no longer are good, or get injured. Then you get into a situation where you planned to contend, but the pieces were not in place anymore and then Sox fans have to wait even longer for the Sox next contention window. All that said, I agree with what the Sox are doing. This has been an excellent offseason so far, and they are VERY close to having a solid group. And the more I think about it, should some of the above happen within the next two years, you still are not strapped for cash and you still have prospects to work with one way or the other, all the while having tradeable assets on short term deals. If it doesn't work out, you can trade Alexei, you can trade Laroche, you can presumably trade Duke if he continues to play well, and you can also trade Robertson. Sure, he's on a 4 year deal now, but the man should have no problem remaining an elite relief pitcher for the next 2 years, and if things don't go well for the Sox as far as contending goes, I think teams would love to trade for 2 years of Robertson. I'm loving it. Kenny was right.. it's getting back to where we can start dreaming and believing again. And it didn't really take long at all.

So, I'm finding this thread to be a little redundant, is anyone else? Every rumor or murmur will have a topic thread created for it already.

QUOTE (South Sider @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 09:34 AM) All the GMs are in their war rooms having coffee and breakfast. Or maybe Hahn and Beane are getting a skillet and discussing the trade already. Hahaha! Of course, Ken Rosenthal would be in disguise sitting at the table next to them and tweeting: Rick Hahn and Billy Beane getting a skillet together. Trade coming soon?

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Dec 8, 2014 -> 09:31 AM) MLBTR needs to step up their game. They haven't put up anything in two hours. All the GMs are in their war rooms having coffee and breakfast. Or maybe Hahn and Beane are getting a skillet and discussing the trade already. Hahaha!

Looks like it'll end up being Duquette. This topic could probably be unpinned and have "may resign" text removed.

It's a really good thing that the Sox found a way to keep Hahn around. If Kenny ends up splitting, at least we still have Rick. Kind of a shame Tony LaRussa has a home now. If Kenny splits, I wonder how interested he'd have been to take his old job.

Wow, this really came out of left field. I don't think the Sox have a CEO position. The only position above KW is Howard Pizer at Senior Executive Vice President. And one would have to assume that Kenny would have to be financially invested in the team to be a Vice Chairman. Presumably, he'd also have to get voted in by the group? Different ownership scenarios between the Sox and Blue Jays, being that they are owned by Rodgers Communications.

Stuff like this happens when you play like a dirtbag (RE: Corey Perry). Nice hip check, Ballard.

Very happy to beat Les Habitants at the last minute, but I would have loved to have saved a victory like this for a team like Nashville... ohhh they think they are going to get at least a point... oh wait, nope! Not quite!

QUOTE (Real @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 10:34 AM) signing scherzer isn't a flop if he doesn't come with a world series appearance, just a playoff appearance alone would keep the seats filled for the following season casual fans like the big shiny names, and most fans of any team are casual fans It's true. Laroche, while a good player, isn't going to attract extra fans to the park. Scherzer or Lester would. Shields, to a much lesser degree, might. You have to spend money to make money, right?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 4, 2014 -> 10:13 AM) I'm telling you, we have more payroll and adding a REALLY good RHP to the rotation immediately makes us contenders IMO. Agreed with this. Scherzer would be amazing, but I'm excited for the team to add any really good RHP right now. I hope it gets done.

A big part of people wanting to go to games is having players who are worth it. At my job, we planned out going to a game a month in advance and did our very best to guess which day would be a day that Chris Sale pitches. Chris Sale is an electric player. People will pay to see him. Problem is, Chris only pitches 1 out of every 5 games, so having Sale on your team only boosts your attendance 1 out of 5 games. You need offensive players who are also electric. Jose Abreu is the prime example of this. He alone can draw more ticket sales. I didn't go to any Sox games 2 seasons ago. Who would? The team was lousy and didn't have any electric offensive players. Fast forward to this past season. We all witness what Jose Abreu is doing. It's amazing... it's... fun! It's worth shelling out a bunch of money to go see him play! If you can't go to a game and expect the Sox to win, then you need to be able to go and at least see top-notch players. Abreu/Sale is pretty much the only reason I decided to go to games this past season. Funny thing is... Abreu went like 0 for 8, and Sale didn't pitch too well the game I went to, and the Sox got shut out in the first game and lost the second game. But I still enjoyed myself. As for having a lot to do after the game.... eh. For me, it's all about pregame. The ability to tailgate, drink and eat before going in. That's worth a lot to me. Post game, it's usually to the point where I'm ready to go home anyway. I'm not going to go drink more at a bar. Maybe during a day game I'll go somewhere else in the city afterwards. Being a suburbanite, there's a fairly long drive to get home to consider.

Obviously, I'd love to have Scherzer on the team. History says that Boras usually gets what he wants with big free agents, sadly. However, if it comes down to February, and Scherzers best offer doesn't completely annihilate what it seems like Lester would get (6/145), are you guys in? Would you offer and sign Scherzer to a contract like 6/165? I think he'll still end up with his 200 million, but I think I'd be in at the former price.

Nice win! I always love seeing the Blues go down!

Just when things are starting to look very bright for the Hawks, this happens. Crow!!! There will be plenty of time for you to dance after your NHL career is over!! Well, Raanta played well when Crow was injured last December. Hopefully he can do that again. And if not... there is Darling.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 2, 2014 -> 12:45 PM) I don't think we want to see the White Sox trade for Samardzija. I really don't. Beane typically asks for and gets the moon for his players. I've read a lot of your posts here before creating an account, and you seem like a very knowledgeable poster. A post of mine detailing an offer I'd make for Shark is in the last page. Do you have any thoughts on it? Would you do that deal? Would the Sox do that deal? Would Beane die of laughter? It's clear the Red Sox can surpass that deal, but if they don't....