OmarComing25

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:35 PM) As an established player, yes, I think the Cubs were willing to risk it. We just picked up a guy the Red Sox invested $62M in as a 20 year old (?) with no track record. So they didn't factor in defense at all? And how are the Heyward/Moncada situations comparable in the slightest?

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:23 PM) You're absolutely nuts if you think RF defense has become that valued. You're absolutely nuts if you think the Cubs gave Heyward $184 million because of his tools. Because his offense was nowhere good enough to justify it.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:17 PM) It doesn't take much to understand that Eaton is a fraud and a locker room problem. Why do the White Sox want to move him? He's young enough to last a rebuild, right? So why move him? He's a sell high 6 WAR player and not someone the front office cares for. I never said the Sox shouldn't consider selling high on Eaton, I just didn't take you for one to buy into what was so obviously a fluff story.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:13 PM) Have you actually read what happened? Do you remember how close the Cubs were to losing that game and the World Series? Are you seriously kidding me right now? I can't believe you're seriously trying to argue this.

QUOTE (kwolf68 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 10:40 AM) Seems to be the Nationals would be a perfect team to trade with for Q and even Robertson. The Nationals have about a 2 year window to go all in, the Sox are in rebuild now. The Nats have some intriguing prospects. The Nationals are also looking to take a flier on a closer (enter Robertson)....and Q + Robertson trade for ???? I think Giolitto and Robles would be the foundation of such a trade. I think the Nationals makes less sense than the Astros. Their 2-year window means Quintana's extra year of control isn't as valuable to them.

Man, if Quintana was underrated here, it would probably be even worse in Colorado with the Coors effect on his numbers.

Not sure paying those guys market value would even be worth it though. Hosmer is very inconsistent and has been replacement level two of the last three years. Cain is aging. Dyson and Escobar can't hit a lick. Duffy has never pitched more than 180 innings. Moustakas is decent but far from a star. They're not greatly valuable assets.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 07:28 AM) So, as of right now the White Sox have 4 players in the top 120. With 30 organizations, an average franchise should have - 4 players in the top 120. Not only that, the White Sox have 2 players in the top 25 and 1 player in the top 1 - both of which are actually above what an average team would have. I know, I feel dirty saying this too - but the White Sox are actually above average in their top 5 prospects. Substantially so. Their system is still not, IMO, a top 10 system, but it's much closer. They are still poor on depth after that top 5 of guys who should be strong big leaguers - they're above average in their top 5 but below average from 6-xxx, the legacy of the 10+ players they've given up to try to compete in 2015 and 2016. That should put them somewhere in the range of 12-18, I'm guessing closest to 12, with their exact spot depending on what you see when you actually line up system to system which no one pays me enough to spend the time doing. Probably not worth doing until all the dust settles and we see who else is traded. Hopefully we end up Top 5 after it's all said and done.

Of course if Moncada busts we lose the trade, but that was the case if we got a Bregman/Turner/Swanson and they busted too, so that's not really saying much.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 06:10 PM) I've done a 180 on pitch framing. I over estimated (a bad mistake) the competency of MLB umps. I've now seen more than enough evidence that framing matters and that the Sox suffered from a lack of it last year. This is a key area to improve on and seeing how we are starting from the bottom it shouldn't be too hard just to move into "mediocre". I have no idea who is out there that fits the rebuild plan but just getting someone that can raise the trade value of the pitchers by getting more strikes is a good move. Of the remaining free agent catchers Jeff Mathis is the only one who's an above-average framer.

This is why it was so impressive that he still managed to increase his strikeout rate and significantly drop his walk rate from 2015. He was working with a significantly reduced zone, especially when you factor in how much Flowers increased his zone.

The big free agent class is two years from now. Even if we shoot for 2020 instead of 2019 it could still make sense to be players in that class because any we sign will likely be here for several years.

https://twitter.com/MarkZuckerman/status/806116929975058432 @MarkZuckerman #Nats have made their offer, now waiting for #WhiteSox to take it or leave it. Didn't see this in here.

Take it with a massive grain of salt but a guy on a football message board that broke the news of the Thornburg trade 18 hours before it happened is saying he has a source that says the Red Sox are making a push for Sale with Moncada/Kopech/Basabe. http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/view...144406#21144406

QUOTE (Lemon_44 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 09:05 AM) Yes, because that made up metric WAR means everything and is the be all, end all to all baseball conversations and who will/won't win. Is this Hawk's account?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:15 AM) I don't disagree with you about Turner, I'm just saying I think Hahn and Co are holding out for Turner still. I think if the discussion was about the remaining prospects, and Giolito and Robles were agreed upon, they would have been hammering this thing out last night. The absence of rumors overnight suggests that did not happen. Not quite sure there is as big of a difference between Turner's perceived value and Benintendi's, but you certainly seem to feel as though Benintendi is a possible get while Turner is not. Is there really a huge difference between a package of Benintendi/Devers/Kopech and Turner/Giolito/Robles? I'd take the latter, but I think some here would choose the former. I think the Nationals package is better and it's not close. Giolito/Robles >>>> than Devers/Kopech.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:02 AM) You guys are all kidding yourselves if you think Turner is going to be in a package.... My guess is that Giolito and Robles are agreed upon but Hahn and Co. are trying to get as many of Lopez, Fedde, Joe Ross, Stevenson, Kieboom, Severino as possible and the Nats are balking at which 1's and how many go with the 2 headliners. All the while the Hahn is still checking his phone every 5 seconds waiting for a better offer to come in. Presumably waiting for Boston to come off of 1 of Moncada/Benentendi + Devers + 1 of Kopesch/Groome or Houston to let go of Bregman + Tucker + Musgrove/Paulino. I'd be surprised if anyone else is seriously in the mix. I agree 100%.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 12:09 AM) Your link is from April to be fair and his does say 40 at top of his current player page. I don't know what the discrepancy is. If I had to guess is having a "poor" even half a season a low level changed it quite a bit. Ah I didn't notice the 40 at the top of the player page. That seems outdated, there's no way his stock dropped from 60 to 40 since April.

QUOTE (Two-Gun Pete @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 12:00 AM) Fangraphs has his FV as all of 40, largely owing to his hit tool being judged as being below average. http://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playe...amp;position=OF In other words, his FV is roughly equivalent to Charlie Tilson. http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/top-21-pros...cago-white-sox/ http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/katoh-proje...nals-prospects/ Where are you seeing 40? It says 60+ here.

Confused about the hand-wringing here. Giolito/Robles is a great starting point and matches any other two prospect combination of the other teams. Turner is not necessary and not sure I'd want it anyway because it'd be pretty close to a 1-1 swap, I don't think any additional pieces would be that good if he were to be included (same with Bregman). Giolito/Robles is the best chance to get quality and quantity, we need both.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 03:31 PM) If Giolito were actually as elite of a prospect as his ranking then I highly doubt that he would be on the table in a trade. The fact that Giolito very much is on the table should be a big red flag about how the Nationals feel about him Years from now I can see us looking back on this and laughing about how "untouchable" Trea Turner is for Chris Sale. Odds are that Giolito and Robles never make an impact at the mlb level...prospects bust all the time On draft day it's true that prospects are unlikely to make an impact at the MLB level, but prospects that play their way into a top ten ranking don't have nearly the same bust rate.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 03:01 PM) A lot of good his fWAR has done us, too! I'm saying if you're going off of their development trajectories since draft day, I suspect the order might switch. If you look beyond his ERA (not just fWAR) Rodon took a big step forward this year.

QUOTE (steveno89 @ Dec 5, 2016 -> 02:20 PM) Nats are not trading Turner, Giolito and Robles in a package for any one player. I would fire a GM for doing that Even Trout?

I'm also warming up to a Nationals package. If a Bregman/Benintendi/Swanson type player is off the table they can probably make the best offer. I'd be happy with Giolito/Robles as the headliners, and maybe more importantly it sounds like the Nationals would actually do it.

QUOTE (Knuckles @ Dec 1, 2016 -> 01:28 PM) He didn't exactly looked like KGJr out there in the very few games he's played. How many games was it? It was 4 innings