blackmooncreeping

A little nervous with Gordon coming off an injury that caused him to miss significant time and his age of 32. Would prefer Upton or Cespedes for the offensive impact, BUT if you could get Gordon on a reduced price and then have some $$ to go after either a 2nd outfielder like Parra or Jackson, and then have some $$ left for a RHP, then you might have something...

No way on Fowler, besides the lost draft pick his market is way over-inflated. I'd like to think of him as a good add-on guy AFTER you bring in one of the top 3, but he's going to get paid more than I'd be willing to go. If I'm parting with a draft pick, it's Upton or Gordon and no one else.

.235 BA, .295 OBP, 25 2B, 9 3B, 11HR, 18SB. And rock solid glovework.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Dec 19, 2015 -> 01:50 PM) Exactly. Putting Upton behind Abreu would lengthen the lineup and bump Frazier down to 5 where he can think about that power instead of drawing walks, if that makes sense. Agreed. The lineup is much better with Frazier at 5 looking to drive in runs then in the 3 hole. Jose should definitely be hitting 3rd

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 03:44 PM) TJ hasn't affected his velocity in the past, iirc this is his second TJ surgery. If it was shoulder I would be concerned. This isn't a bank breaking deal to worry about Pitchers who have had Tommy John surgery many times come back stronger with the repairs made. I agree, a shoulder would be more worrisome to me than a Tommy John guy...

QUOTE (knightni @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 01:41 PM) Avi's problem is that he extends himself too soon on pitches and loses potential power options on fastballs. http://www.csnchicago.com/white-sox/white-...struggles-plate I think he seems late on swings and basically shanks pitches to RF with no authority, no driving of the ball. It just kind of ends up out there.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 01:32 PM) Colorado is smart in that they are waiting until Upton, Cespedes and Gordon sign. The OF market will be rather bare and outfielders salaries will have gone up, already has with the Heyward signing. CarGo is already worth his contract thanks to Heyward's signing and will likely have some surplus value after Cespedes, Upton and Gordon sign. CarGo should bring back a few nice prospects to Colorado. That said, I wouldn't count on Colorado taking on LaRoche's salary. They have no reason to since CarGo is not a salary dump and the Rockies can find a cheaper FA to sign. Agreed, no one is taking on Laroche's contract unless some team's 1b goes down with a spring training/early season injury. Pittsburgh's rejection of the Sox offer to pay $8 mill of his salary this year killed that bird.

QUOTE (dpd9189 @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 12:44 PM) If they back load a deal for one of the UFA's, then odds are that contract won't have an opt out in it. If you look at Heyward's deal for the Cubs he's getting a major chunk of his $$$ in the first 3-4 years of the deal so if the Sox signed Upton let's say at 6/$120 mil with an opt out after 3 years, there's are real good chance he'd be getting over 50% of the contract in the first few years before the opt out which makes back loading a deal like that difficult. QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 12:50 PM) The conundrum is that the Sox are currently at their limit unless JR raises that limit. If JR does not raise that limit then even a back loaded contract will not work, unless the FA is willing to play for free in '16. No matter what, JR has to raise the limit in order to sign or trade for more salary, period. QUOTE (Knackattack @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 12:52 PM) Well, that's where you gotta sign the guy and say we are going to be good and in playoff contention for the next 2-3 years. You offer him 10M in 2016, then 25M in both 2017/2018. All very good points. I like the scenario of offering 10-12 million for 2016, then jumping up to 20-25 million in the following years before the inevitable opt-out clause after year 3. This way the player would be guaranteed 60+ million over the first 3 years of the deal, with JR only having to really jack up the payroll in 2016.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 01:28 PM) Perhaps. I'd be fine giving Avi another chance, just in a limited role unless he earns more or in case of an injury. Think about...under current roster construction, after Avi and Shuck...next man up is Jerry Hairston or Jason Coats. Avi needs to be retained, but I'd be fine with him starting in AAA. Got it. I don't necessarily want to cut bait on Avi, but I don't want him starting in RF for 130 games either. Me and the rest of the White Sox universe on that last point I guess...

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 01:26 PM) Melky. LaRoche can DH on days when a bad RHP is on the hill, sending Melky to the bench or spelling of the OF. OK, I'm assuming you mean this scenario is if we actually land one of the big 3, who can then play LF for Melky. Then we still have Avi in right...?

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 01:17 PM) Another cheaper, more realistic option is to just replace Shuck with Parra (but obviously move him down the lineup a bit), but not sure I want Shuck getting 350 ABs. Shuck could match Avi's offensive #'s I bet. And I do mean offensive...

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 01:17 PM) I totally agree, and have been piping it for awhile now. One of the big three, plus Parra to platoon with Avi in RF. Also unlikely, but it makes the most sense, but would also require a significant increase in payroll from last year. If they're truly going for it, they've got to realistically expect to have a higher payroll than last year. It doesn't make sense to think you'll improve 15-20 games without paying the price--literally. Hahn is good but he can't pull a rabbit out of his a** every year.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 01:17 PM) 1st Bold: I don't agree with. He'll be on the roster, but I hope its not as a everyday DH. Unlikely, but its possible. 2nd Bold: I totally agree, and have been piping it for awhile now. One of the big three, plus Parra to platoon with Avi in RF. Also unlikely, but it makes the most sense, but would also require a significant increase in payroll from last year. Who would be the main DH if Laroche is on the team and it's NOT him? Also, if you can get Gordon on slightly cheaper dollars than expected maybe JR can be convinced to get that 2nd outfielder. I'm still split on whether a 2nd outfielder or a righty starting pitcher would be the way to go if they bump the budget up.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 01:15 PM) I'd prefer neither of them in the OF but a couple games a week. Upton/Gordon/Cespedes plus Parra. Pipe dream, I know, but it makes the White Sox much better. Word to this. Cmon Jerry, buck up!

QUOTE (Knackattack @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 01:11 PM) Melky in LF can be stomached but Avi in RF absolutely cannot be. He has to go. It's 1 more year of Melk chugging around like a fool in LF, then he is DH for a season. Ha, so true...1 more year of Melk chugging around like a fool in LF

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 01:07 PM) Eating $10M of LaRoches contract is pointless. May as well keep him as injury insurance, PH and and late inning defensive replacement at that juncture. I actually think he may have a decent year, but I still think they need to go into the season with Melky as the primary DH / occasional OFer. It's a tough pill to swallow no doubt, but I wouldn't say it's pointless. It would at least facilitate an opening at DH that Melky could fill; lineup becomes better, as does the defense. If Laroche is on the team come April, he's starting at DH no matter how you slice it right? Yuck to that. A quick fix is to bring in 2 outfielders, one major and one mid-tier, and the roster problem is solved imo. Still need a starting pitcher though, not sure if JR would extend that far after last year's face plant, or if Hahn & Co. can get that creative deal-wise...

QUOTE (blackmooncreeping @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 12:39 PM) Why can't they just backload a contract for one of the top FA's? Buck up this year, cover it with the Danks/Laroche money that comes off the books next year. I don't know that I agree that a trade/payer movement from the existing roster is the only way we can bring in one of the big 3... Of course nothing can happen without JR signing off...but as you said, history shows he will do it for the right player/situation.

QUOTE (BlackSox13 @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 12:32 PM) Been looking around at players salaries the last few days to see if the Sox have room for one of those big OF bats. Here's what I've been able to dig up. According to Spotrac the Sox currently sit at 107M in salary commitments to 13 players. That 107M includes leftover salaries from Boni, Peavy and Alexei at 1M each. http://www.spotrac.com/mlb/chicago-white-sox/payroll/ Now factor in projections for arbitration cases for Jones, Avi, Jennings, Lawrie and Putnam that totals 8.6M http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2015/10/proj...s-for-2016.html So far that's a total of 18 players at 115.6M. Filling out the roster with players making the MLB minimum at 507k each totals just a tick over 3.5M. Now add the 3.5M to the 115.6M and we end up at 119.1M for the '16 payroll. Right around where the Sox were last season. In order for the Sox to sign one of the big FA bats, one of three things must happen. 1- JR raises the payroll significantly, 20M+, to cover the additional salary of one of those big bats. 2- Sox trade two of Robertson, Melky, Danks or LaRoche ( ya, right ) in order to create the space needed for adding 20M+ in salary for a bat. 3- JR raises the payroll moderately and the Sox trade one of the four players listed in #2. Not trying to be a buzz kill, just putting things into perspective. If one of these three things doesn't happen, forget about the dream of signing one of those big bats. As of right now, there isn't enough room for signing Alexei. That's how tight things are as of right now. Let's hope it changes somehow. Honestly, I'm not sure what to think at this point. I've read stuff that says Hahn has last years budget to work with in which case they are already at that limit. I've also read they could raise payroll for the right player and Sox history would back that up. So what does everyone think? Any ideas or predictions as to where the Sox go from here? Why can't they just backload a contract for one of the top FA's? Buck up this year, cover it with the Danks/Laroche money that comes off the books next year. I don't know that I agree that a trade/payer movement from the existing roster is the only way we can bring in one of the big 3...

Being creative means with the structure of contracts, not dumping one.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 10:36 AM) Look I am not arguing that Crawford is anything less that what you guys are stating. I was just trying to rationalize why he currently is behind Keith, Toews, and Kane and probably still behind Seabrook and Hossa in what would be a fan value of Blackhawk players. He is certainly making his salary. He is consistent but not flashy and definitely not spectacular. That's a recipe for being under the radar.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 10:20 AM) The media is strange on this -- IMO, both of those guys should cost more to acquire than CarGo. And I feel like the teams would feel the same way. Totally agree. Both are younger and more controllable contract-wise. I know Dickerson was hurt for a part of last year, but I believe he has the best contract of all 3. Gonzo is an injury risk that I'm not willing to take, not to mention what the return on him would be. I would love one of those 2 young guys this season, but assume it would take one of Anderson or Fulmer to get it done.

QUOTE (Tony82087 @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 12:19 AM) It's a shame, I feel like when we look back in 20 years, Crawford isn't going to be talked about in the likes of Toews-Kane-Keith-Seabrook. He's closing in on surpassing Belfour for #3 on the Hawks all-time best list, in my opinion. I think Eddie was better, but you can't ignore the Cups, baby.

What would it take to get Dickerson or Blackmon? Is there any word on their specific market?

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 09:41 AM) Why is the wildcard the goal here? The division is wide open and for the taking, especially if we get Upton or Cespedes. I meant wildcard as a minimum, ie, getting into the playoffs. I don't know that the division is there for the taking for this team as currently constructed, I still think we need more starting pitching and an impact bat to really be a threat. But I do think we can make a legit wildcard run as constructed.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 18, 2015 -> 09:39 AM) Hahn already offered to pay $8 million of LaRoche's salary to the Pirates and they turned it down. Give them another call, phone stalk them, throw in another 2 million. Do whatever it takes to open up the DH spot for Melky and bring in 2 outfielders. Cmon Hahn!