Con te Giolito

Leonard Floyd was a puzzling pick as well, especially with the trade up. Really though I expect them to trade down with the Bills for '17 1st, '17 2nd, '18 1st.

Bold prediciton: none of those players will be drafted by the Bears. Pace has a little "smartest guy in the room" in him.

No this is bad and changes your opinion on a lot of guys. Howard at least has heart, he's got whatever illness has been going around (puking on the sideline) and still wants in there.

Bears seem intent on keeping that #3 pick.

Even in criticizing the NBA as the "worst it's ever been" Barkley is still legitimatizing an illegitimate league. There hasn't been an honest NBA season in my lifetime and anyone says otherwise is willfully ignoring the Ewing "lottery", Donaghy and Kings-Lakers (these are just the most egregious examples) because they are sentimental from growing up with the league or are just suspending disbelief the way wrestling fans do.

Bell and Keller as headliners would he fine by me. Not as sure about Bell and Glasnow leading a deal, but I'd still probably take that as well as long as the Pirates weren't to resist much on the low ranked guys the Sox scouts have identified or the Pirates tossed in Newman. Glasnow has a lot of baggage with that walk rate. It hasn't gone down much at all in all his years in their system and if he cannot correct it it puts his ceiling as a high leverage reliever. If you want to compare hypothetical Pirates returns with the Sale haul I would seriously put Glasnow closer to Basabe value-wise than I would Kopech. Unless the Sox see a magic fix Glasnow is more of a third piece than he is a headliner. It sucks because Meadows, Keller, Bell and Newman are all guys I want and they have a lot of interesting depth pieces the Sox could pick through as well. Bell and Meadows are both clear headliners for me and Keller is not far off from those two. Newman is a step back but from those 3 but he's about as solid a 2nd piece as I would expect coming back. If I had any faith in Glasnow at all a Newman + Glasnow deal would have a lot of appeal by itself.

Like I said we'll never know exactly what Boston could've parted with for a chance at getting a stud arm for Papi's last run with the team. But the Sox should not have been demanding Betts or even Bradley Jr. at the deadline, that much is clear.

Eh, I think its distinctly possible that one of Bell or Meadows is firmly on the table and the issue holding things up is Glasnow. I'm not sure the Pirates or White Sox really want him, so the Pirates are attempting to cash-in his value now while they can in pursuit of Quintana while the White Sox are either refusing Glasnow or trying to pawn him off on a third team (HELLO YANKEES, a team that on paper could really use a top farm arm).

And the Sox may have waited a bit too long to be reasonable in a Sale trade. We'll never know for certain but I think the Sox could've landed Benintendi + Moncada if they weren't so busy being hardheaded about the Red Sox meeting their price with Mookie Betts. Perhaps a lesson they should learn with Quintana.

For a year, maybe two. And if Quintana gets hurt or loses effectiveness that plan is shot. I'm not going over again why waiting until the deadline, or worse yet next offseason, to trade Q should also be out of the question. This is the problem with backing up the truck the way the Sox have. It was easy to start the rebuild because they had to be coaxed into doing it. Hahn could easily have pulled Eaton and Sale back and abandoned the rebuild idea if their price wasn't met. But now the cat is out of the bag and everyone knows the Sox have to sell most of these pieces now. At some point Hahn is just going to have to take the best deal on the table because the reality of getting much less next year and the threat of disaster striking and getting nothing is not acceptable.

Nah they'll get more clicks by revising the list and writing big "BREAKING DOWN THE LATEST HAUL" and "UPDATED SYSTEM RANKS." You think it's coincidence Fangraphs released their Sox system overview like the day before the winter meetings when it was clear at least Sale was going to be moved?

I would take all these deals gladly but I doubt any of the other teams would be willing to.

There will be reasons to consider dealing Rodon. Probably not next offseason but the following. If the rebuild is coming along a little slowly or the timetable established by the Quintana trade pushes things out more the Sox would probably be better served using Rodon to patch up other holes more affordably than setting themselves up for him to soak up so much of the payroll flexibility created by the rebuild. A colossal deal that would hamper the ability to resign guys like Moncada or Giolito (should they pan out), and if th Sox are in the thick of their window they dont want to be faced with letting Rodon walk for nothing or rolling the dice on resigning other guys. A lot of things have to happen for this to be an issue. For one Rodon has to actually break out this year and take that next step (I think he will) but also him and his agent will have to reject the Sox inevitable extension discussions. For a pitcher its awful tough to turn down $50-60m guaranteed when you're still 4 or more years from getting the big payday. I dont care who his agent is, that bonus Rodon got from being drafted only carries so far. Also, to keep this post relevant to this thread, the Quintana return will be important. If the Sox get guys in high A with ETA's more than a year and a half away the impetus grows significantly to maximize Rodon's value mor long term via an extension or trade.

Sox could find themselves with a decision to make this time next year with Rodon if he can put it all together and realize his potential. If they can overcome the Boras factor and lock him up that would be the most ideal, but can't rule out dealing him if he appears intent on testing the market right in the middle of what should be the Sox window.

I'm usually a quantity guy, the belief is its very difficult to make 2 legit prospects less desirable than one, but something about that Frazier, Mateo and Severino package just seems a little off. Initially I'm fine with it but Mateo in particular really does not enthused me much. Sox already have one Tim Anderson, I don't see the point of adding another. If there was a way to do Frazier and Rutherford for Q straight up I think I'd prefer that to a Frazier, Mateo and Severino deal. It's time to start accumulating some guys who can just put the damn bat on the ball.

Good on the Twins refusing to sell low on Dozier. That player after the year he just had is worth so much more than one f***ing pitching prospect.

Written by a college sophomore home on winter break. And he doesnt link his claim that it was "reported" anywhere.

Right that's why the Sox have the Pirates on the phone. I wouldn't be shocked if the Braves are silently lurking as well, waiting for Hahn's demands to slip a little bit. The Yankees obviously have the money to pay a pitcher $30m a year but nobody on the market this year is worth anywhere close to that and their long term plans are the worst kept secret in baseball. Everyone else? Meh, they dont care. Without using the words age or contract tell me why Jose Quintana is a better pitcher than Jake Arrieta? What matters most to teams is the player. If they believe in the player they will pay whatever amount of money it takes to get him and they will accept that there are probably going to be a couple years there where the contract will be an albatross. But hey, if you win a title who gives a s***? The good news for the Sox is its not next year yet and the best FA pitcher left is probably broken down Tyson Ross, a guy who got straight up cut from by far the worst roster in baseball. So if someone out there wants to upgrade their rotation for this year the Sox are the place to shop, but the clock is ticking on that dynamic and before long teams will be able to keep their most prized prospects and get the TOR arm they desire.

The 2017-18 free agent class for pitchers is loaded. Barring an insane Cy Young season where Quintana puts up Kershaw #'s the value of Jose Quintana begins its decline sometime very soon...probably by mid-February as teams starting thinking "you know what, I'd rather wait until next offseason and just spend money instead of prospect on a TOR starter." That's not even factoring the risk of injury or ineffectiveness which is a lot more than "the risk you take", Q falling off or getting hurt is basically nuclear and derails the entire rebuild. He has to be moved this offseason. What constitutes settling for less now will be a shocking overpay this time next year.

I think a big part of it is Sale can give you a bit better of a regular season than Quintana but also the possibility of a Klubot or Madbum like run of postseason dominance that can almost single handedly win a title. Quintana and Sale have roughly the same regular season value when you factor in durability, age and contract, but Sale's postseason potential is off the charts.

Right but opposing GM's know there's more to a pitcher than his place on the Fangraphs WAR leaderboard and surplus value. As good as Quintana is you'd have to be one deluded Sox fan to put him in that TOP TOP tier with Kershaw (who's probably on his own island out there), Sale, Klubot, Madbum, Lester, Sydnergaard, Scherzer and Verlander. GM's know this, they aren't going to give up for Quintana the same thing they are willing to give up for Sale. If the Sox are really looking for Quintana to get a 79 to Sale's 80 they will never be able to deal him. That's not saying its impossible to get Torres, Frazier, Bell or Meadows, but it probably means getting both Torres AND Frazier or Bell AND Meadows (like the Sox got Moncada AND Kopech) is totally out of the question. If you want the top 10 overall prospect as the headliner it'll probably be that guy and a few scout's picks...and that is it. Perhaps Frazier and Bell could be paired with another top 100 guy like Kaprielian for the Yanks or Newman for the Pirates, but even that feels like a bit of a stretch to me.

Is Quintana really worth more to the Sox than other teams? Sox are going to waste his age 28 and age 29 seasons and endure two years of the risk of injury/loss of effectiveness just so they can have have him wrapped up cheap for one year of "maybe we'll contend, best case scenario" in 2019 and then one year of what should be an honest effort to win the AL Central. I guess it depends what the Yankees and Pirates are willing to part with, but they would really have to be lowballing the Sox to not make it worth dealing Jose Quintana.

I dont think Colorado is interested in Quintana. I dont know what their reasons are, though their unique homefield sure gives them a lot of weird things to consider that other teams normally wouldn't even bother with, but if they really wanted Quintana there would be something linking the two by now. Perhaps its the price, one thing we dont know is what Hahn's ask is and maybe they dont want to sell their entire farm. We know the Astros, Yankees and Pirates have or at least had some pretty strong interest but have backed out because of the price also. Some of you seem overjoyed by this, but with the WBC coming up and the prospect of teams just moving on from the idea of getting Quintana (as has appeared to have happened with the Astros) I'm getting pretty worried. Hahn may have overplayed his hand.

Its pretty clear the Sox goal is to build a pitching Death Star by 2019 and hope that Moncada, Abreu (I think he's here for life), Collins, Anderson and whoever else they can develop by that time will provide enough defense to make the pitchers job easy and just enough offense to score 3 or 4 runs with some regularity. Of course the glue of that kind of team will be the battery, and they will need to find 2, possibly 3, good (defensively at least) catchers to man it. There's really no time to waste finding those catchers.

This is the flip side. Nothing is really happening anywhere, even Rosenthal is on vacation.