The Beast Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Could today's lineup possibly be one that of 2004? 1b-Daubach 2b-Miles ss-Valentin 3b-Crede c-Olivo lf-Everett cf-Harris rf-Ordonez dh-Lee Then we could let Skirt go and trade Konerko...that would be sweet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez Ghost (old) Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 I don't envision Everett or Daubach back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 It very well could be. But if Konerko's gone, I see more of a free agent at first base. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted September 28, 2003 Author Share Posted September 28, 2003 I don't envision Everett or Daubach back. How so? He's pretty cheap for only 450,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted September 28, 2003 Author Share Posted September 28, 2003 It very well could be. But if Konerko's gone, I see more of a free agent at first base. Who could fill the role? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Could today's lineup possibly be one that of 2004? 1b-Daubach 2b-Miles ss-Valentin 3b-Crede c-Olivo lf-Everett cf-Harris rf-Ordonez dh-Lee Then we could let Skirt go and trade Konerko...that would be sweet! This lineup would hardly be sweet. A lineup with Valentin, Miles, Harris, and Olivo has far to many question marks and holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Lopez Ghost (old) Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 How so? He's pretty cheap for only 450,000 I don't think he's been very happy here with his playing time, and he hasn't exactly set the world on fire. He'll look for, and find, a better fit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted September 28, 2003 Author Share Posted September 28, 2003 Could today's lineup possibly be one that of 2004? 1b-Daubach 2b-Miles ss-Valentin 3b-Crede c-Olivo lf-Everett cf-Harris rf-Ordonez dh-Lee Then we could let Skirt go and trade Konerko...that would be sweet! This lineup would hardly be sweet. A lineup with Valentin, Miles, Harris, and Olivo has far to many question marks and holes. What I mean is it would be sweet with the pitchers and/or new players that we receive for Konerko. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Daubach can't do it. He's simply not that good. Boston figured that out. That's why they got rid of him. Millar and Ortiz gave them tons more. Everett is too expensive. He's also gone. For salary reasons, either Rowand has to start in center and/or Harris/Miles will be at second. One or the other -- maybe both. I also foresee either Thomas or Konerko leaving. And a new SS would also be nice. My guess is the only sure things are Crede at 3b, Carlos Lee in left field or DH and Olivo at catcher. I wouldn't be stunned to see them deal Magglio, especially if they can get a young SS and perhaps a pitcher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Who could fill the role? I havent got the list in front of me but Spiezio could be a possibility. Heres what our rotation could look like: Buehrle Loaiza Garland Schoeweis Cotts/FA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 I don't envision Everett or Daubach back. I got a feeling both will be back. I think the Sox may tender Everett and he'll be back for another year. Dont' know where they'd play him. I'd say DH or Centerfield. Thomas may be at first though and then Everett could be DH'ing part of the time with Rowand playing center. Who knows though. I do think the Sox are gonna bring Daubbie back and give him more at bats. One big mistake this season was not playing him more, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM23 Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 NO AARON MILES! There's too many questions that need to be addressed right now... Maybe around Soxfest we'll have a better idea of who'll be here and who won't. In a "perfect world," I'd like... Oh, and we need Frank's bat in in that lineup. Anyone who thinks differently is a fool. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM23 Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 I got a feeling both will be back. I think the Sox may tender Everett and he'll be back for another year. Dont' know where they'd play him. I'd say DH or Centerfield. Thomas may be at first though and then Everett could be DH'ing part of the time with Rowand playing center. Who knows though. I do think the Sox are gonna bring Daubbie back and give him more at bats. One big mistake this season was not playing him more, imo. I doubt Everett will be back. The Rangers have been making a lot of noise since they traded him about what a great guy Carl is and how much they'd like to have him back. I can't see the Sox matching Texas for his services. I'd much rather have a more traditional lead-off hitter in center anyway. Juan Pierre, anyone? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 NO AARON MILES! There's too many questions that need to be addressed right now... Maybe around Soxfest we'll have a better idea of who'll be here and who won't. In a "perfect world," I'd like... Oh, and we need Frank's bat in in that lineup. Anyone who thinks differently is a fool. Miles is fine as a backup. As I type this Miles ropes a double. This kid can hit. If the OBP slowly improves then he's a keeper, imo. Either way the kid is gonna be with the Sox next year playing a vital role off the bench. I wouldn't be shocked if Harris/Miles are playing 2nd base next season and the Sox take the money that would of went to Jose/Roberto and give it to a stud shortstop. To me I'd rather have a stud shortstop and see what you get out of Harris/Miles/Vet FA. We know they can all play solid defense and can do somethings. To me one of the main goals is adding another arm in the pen, finding your 5th starter, moving Konerko and replacing him with Spiezo. With the trade of Konerko..potentially find yourself a starting middle infielder to go along with the other guys that can do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM23 Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Miles can be the next Graffanino; that's fine with me. But he's a dud as a starter. The Sox are going to need to keep Frank and Maggs because we saw how much El Caballo mashed hitting in front of them. While I'd rather not be with Valentin, I still think he's a better fit for this team than a lot of guys out there. I don't know what shortstops are on the block or will be F/As this offseason (Tejada?), but we're going to need to address pretty much the entire middle of the field. Second, short, and center are going to be critical next year. And, oh... Miles is not a good defender from what I hear. I haven't watched enough, but the fact that guy has been in the minors for 7 years doesn't make me comfortable with him starting a whole lot. I'd personally rather not splurge on a stud shortstop and find adequate, speedy guys to fill both short and second (and center... A guy can dream). If there's one thing the Sox really need in this lineup, it's more balance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Could today's lineup possibly be one that of 2004? 1b-Daubach 2b-Miles ss-Valentin 3b-Crede c-Olivo lf-Everett cf-Harris rf-Ordonez dh-Lee Then we could let Skirt go and trade Konerko...that would be sweet! This lineup would hardly be sweet. A lineup with Valentin, Miles, Harris, and Olivo has far to many question marks and holes. No of course it doesnt look like the powerful offense we had coming into this season. But did we win with this lineup? I'll be looking forward to some very nice smallball from guys like Willie and Miles. Then we still have our power guys like Maggs and Lee. Its gonna be a lot more balanced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM23 Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Could today's lineup possibly be one that of 2004? 1b-Daubach 2b-Miles ss-Valentin 3b-Crede c-Olivo lf-Everett cf-Harris rf-Ordonez dh-Lee Then we could let Skirt go and trade Konerko...that would be sweet! This lineup would hardly be sweet. A lineup with Valentin, Miles, Harris, and Olivo has far to many question marks and holes. No of course it doesnt look like the powerful offense we had coming into this season. But did we win with this lineup? I'll be looking forward to some very nice smallball from guys like Willie and Miles. Then we still have our power guys like Maggs and Lee. Its gonna be a lot more balanced. With no Frank Thomas in backing up Lee, I guarantee he'll fall back to his normal .260-25-90 self. Rememeber what happened in 2000 when Valentin was primarily hitting in front of Frank and Maggs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Miles can be the next Graffanino; that's fine with me. But he's a dud as a starter. The Sox are going to need to keep Frank and Maggs because we saw how much El Caballo mashed hitting in front of them. While I'd rather not be with Valentin, I still think he's a better fit for this team than a lot of guys out there. I don't know what shortstops are on the block or will be F/As this offseason (Tejada?), but we're going to need to address pretty much the entire middle of the field. Second, short, and center are going to be critical next year. And, oh... Miles is not a good defender from what I hear. I haven't watched enough, but the fact that guy has been in the minors for 7 years doesn't make me comfortable with him starting a whole lot. I'd personally rather not splurge on a stud shortstop and find adequate, speedy guys to fill both short and second (and center... A guy can dream). If there's one thing the Sox really need in this lineup, it's more balance. Guys like Jose, Frank, Konerko have had years to show what they can do. They dont have chemistry at all and cant play smallball to save their asses. Instead of staying with this old, slow ballclub, why not give a chance to guys like Willie, Miles, Gload and see what they can do? We most likely arent going anywhere next season so why not start building for a real future? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesoxfan99 Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 No of course it doesnt look like the powerful offense we had coming into this season. But did we win with this lineup? I'll be looking forward to some very nice smallball from guys like Willie and Miles. Then we still have our power guys like Maggs and Lee. Its gonna be a lot more balanced. I'm actually a big proponent of getting more speed into the lineup and playing more little ball. I just think that with Valentin, Olivo, Harris, and Miles in the lineup you have 4 potential holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleM23 Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Miles can be the next Graffanino; that's fine with me. But he's a dud as a starter. The Sox are going to need to keep Frank and Maggs because we saw how much El Caballo mashed hitting in front of them. While I'd rather not be with Valentin, I still think he's a better fit for this team than a lot of guys out there. I don't know what shortstops are on the block or will be F/As this offseason (Tejada?), but we're going to need to address pretty much the entire middle of the field. Second, short, and center are going to be critical next year. And, oh... Miles is not a good defender from what I hear. I haven't watched enough, but the fact that guy has been in the minors for 7 years doesn't make me comfortable with him starting a whole lot. I'd personally rather not splurge on a stud shortstop and find adequate, speedy guys to fill both short and second (and center... A guy can dream). If there's one thing the Sox really need in this lineup, it's more balance. Guys like Jose, Frank, Konerko have had years to show what they can do. They dont have chemistry at all and cant play smallball to save their asses. Instead of staying with this old, slow ballclub, why not give a chance to guys like Willie, Miles, Gload and see what they can do? We most likely arent going anywhere next season so why not start building for a real future? We could go somewhere if they really wanted to. As the Sox proved this year, you need balance in an offense. Yeah, a group of mashers can't win, but thinking a group of "smallball" players can win in the American League is ridiculous. You need to have your 40+homer bats (Frank) and you're stolen base threats. And you've got to be kidding if you think a lineup of Willie Harris, Ross Gload, and Aaron Miles is "building for the future. Ha. Pretty much everyone in the upper 2 divisions of the Sox farm system (with a few exceptions) is crap... No present, no future. The Sox need to keep the biggest bats (Thomas, Caballo, Ordonez, etc.) and add some key, players to the middle of the field. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 I just think that with Valentin, Olivo, Harris, and Miles in the lineup you have 4 potential holes. Well are we agreed that we most likely arent going anywhere next year? It's basically gonna be an experiment year. Valentin, Olivo, Harris, and Miles are pretty much all we have. Its obvious that Frank, Paulie, and the same guys we've had to work with aren't going to bring us to the promised land with their 5 run homers. Instead of signing more free agents, why not see if these guys can fill in the hole for the future and start building from the ground up? With that said, maybe we can get a couple good prospects for Konerko/Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox247 Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 The Sox need to keep the biggest bats (Thomas, Caballo, Ordonez, etc.) and add some key, players to the middle of the field. Three big guys would be more than enough (Lee, Maggs, Everett). I'm not proposing we get rid of them, I'm talking about Paulie and Frank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted September 28, 2003 Author Share Posted September 28, 2003 Gload is a journeyman, he'll never mount to anything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 I got a feeling both will be back. I think the Sox may tender Everett and he'll be back for another year. Dont' know where they'd play him. I'd say DH or Centerfield. Thomas may be at first though and then Everett could be DH'ing part of the time with Rowand playing center. Who knows though. I do think the Sox are gonna bring Daubbie back and give him more at bats. One big mistake this season was not playing him more, imo. I doubt Everett will be back. The Rangers have been making a lot of noise since they traded him about what a great guy Carl is and how much they'd like to have him back. I can't see the Sox matching Texas for his services. I'd much rather have a more traditional lead-off hitter in center anyway. Juan Pierre, anyone? I agree with you. The Sox biggest needs should be to get a #1 and #2 hitter. RIght now I don't think anyone on the lineup currently should be there unless Harris can get a .350 OBP or Miles can prove to be a good hitter (Miles would be the #2 guy). Luckily...someone named Matsui is available via free agnecy and he would be a beautiful two hole hitter. Then you could insert Jeremy Reed and him and go with an odd top of the order. Or you could bring back Roberto as well for one more year while you find another leadoff hitter. Or how bout this...Castillo from Florida. Invest the money in him...find a two hole hitter. Trade Konerko (This is a must..replace with Spiezo...I believe this will be a huge benefit; Konerko is a better hitter..Spiezo is a better all around player). And the key to all this...move Thomas to the 4 or 5 slot. Either put Carlos in the 3 hole with Maggs staying in cleanup or drop Carlos to the 5 hole, Maggs in the 3 hole and Frank hitting cleanup. Guzman could fit that bill. Instead of investing a lot in Matusi and having a shabby 2nd baseman, you get Castillo and Guzman. That would be a very good defensive infeild and it will also give the Sox a TON of speed at the top. Then you have Graffy and another on the bench for the infield and keep Daubs around if you can. In the outfield you can bring back Carl (If you can bring him and Colon back) or go with Arow/Reed. Some scenarios I wouldn't mind: Probably my favorite realistic scenario Luis Castillo Christian Guzman Carlos Lee Magglio Ordonez Frank Thomas Scott Spiezo Joe Crede Jeremy Reed/Aaron Rowand (or Carl if ya can bring him back) Miguel Olivo/Sandy or FA That lineup still has some guys who will hit 30 hrs (Potentially 5 of them..if Crede can do it) and I'd say there would be 5 20 hr guys. It also has some incredibly fast players at the top and then Thomas is the only slow guy there. Most of those guys know how to handle the stick and move guys over, with the exception of Thomas. If you don't bring back Everett, you use Rowand..etc in the outfield. If possible I'd love to see Castillo and Matsui brought in. DOn't know if the Sox would be willing to do it. If they were...I'd say Castillo gets 4-5 mill and Matsui 7-8. Thats a lot in the middle but you lose Konerko's 8 mill (Deal him for anything...just straight salary dump). You also lose Jose's 4.5 mill and you aren't paying Roberto 3-4 mill. So basically your saving 3 mill in this move. You give Spiezo a 2 yr 4 mill deal which is plenty for him. You could probably do it for 3 mill and throw in some incentives. So instead of having Jose...Alomar...Konerko you could have Matsui, Castillo, Spiezo. All of those guys can field...two can steal 40 bases a piece (i'd say the Sox could have 100 stolen bases between the two). Then the Sox need to get creative...don't spend the money on Everett, which would of been 5 mill. You look and see if their is another superstar out there you cna get that is signed longterm at a more affordable rate (Maybe to replace Magglio) or you sign Magglio longterm at 8 or 9 mill to be your star. Sorry, he ISN"T worth more then that. Give him a longterm deal that makes him feel secure and bump in some incentives that can up it to 11 mill a yaer if he's MVP. This lowers his salary for the first year, but gives him good terms the rest of the way. Next up you sign Colon at whatever they are offering..I'm gonna guess its 7-8 mill, about the same as he made this year. So the Sox payroll which was 53 mill or so this year. - Thomas adds another mill (Assuming he accepts the option; if he doesn't Sox replace him with Everett at 5 mill so it don't matter either way) - Matsui adds 3.5 mill over Jose Valentin (compared to Jose's salary this year) - Castillo adds 5 mill (we weren't paying Alomar) - Spiezo is a net -6 Mill (Konerko at 8 mill...compared with Spiezo at 2 mill) - Elo makes an additional 2.5 mill or so (Something like this) - Colon stays the same - Buehrle increases 2.5-3.0 mill - Garland increases 500 K - Carlos Lee stays about the same..max up 1 mill(Remember he made pretty good money last year..I figure he gets about a mill bump to around 5 mill a year). - Koch is up another mill - Marte goes up a mill or so - Someone pitches at Gordon's salary of this year - Someone pitches also at Gordon's salary this year (So figure about 3 mill more on the rest of the pen...allows Sox to add at least one quality arm and keep one of Gordon/Sully) Pretty much that figures most everything. This is a rough estimate and it would be an awesome lineup and pitching staff as well as a complete defensive team. The total payroll would be flat out 68-69 mill so figure 70 mill. I think thats exactly where the Sox want their payroll. My thought is, Kenny gets a bit creative he can keep a lot of the team the same while making some subtle moves to really improve the teams weakness as well as improve on its strenght. I don't know about everyone else but this rotation mixed with that lineup would look pretty damn good. Colon Buehrle Elo Garland Scho..or a youngster Bullpen Marte Koch Gordon or Sully Hawkins or another solid reliever Wunsch or Munoz or Sanders Wright Munoz/Sanders/Wunsch/Fa/Adkins/etc That pen has four guys that can close and then you have a good lefty specialist and a hell of a long reliever, plus the shot to give a youngster some seasoning. I don't know about everyone else, but that would look like one hell of a team to me. 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Chisoxfn Posted September 28, 2003 Share Posted September 28, 2003 Miles can be the next Graffanino; that's fine with me. But he's a dud as a starter. The Sox are going to need to keep Frank and Maggs because we saw how much El Caballo mashed hitting in front of them. While I'd rather not be with Valentin, I still think he's a better fit for this team than a lot of guys out there. I don't know what shortstops are on the block or will be F/As this offseason (Tejada?), but we're going to need to address pretty much the entire middle of the field. Second, short, and center are going to be critical next year. And, oh... Miles is not a good defender from what I hear. I haven't watched enough, but the fact that guy has been in the minors for 7 years doesn't make me comfortable with him starting a whole lot. I'd personally rather not splurge on a stud shortstop and find adequate, speedy guys to fill both short and second (and center... A guy can dream). If there's one thing the Sox really need in this lineup, it's more balance. Guys like Jose, Frank, Konerko have had years to show what they can do. They dont have chemistry at all and cant play smallball to save their asses. Instead of staying with this old, slow ballclub, why not give a chance to guys like Willie, Miles, Gload and see what they can do? We most likely arent going anywhere next season so why not start building for a real future? We could go somewhere if they really wanted to. As the Sox proved this year, you need balance in an offense. Yeah, a group of mashers can't win, but thinking a group of "smallball" players can win in the American League is ridiculous. You need to have your 40+homer bats (Frank) and you're stolen base threats. And you've got to be kidding if you think a lineup of Willie Harris, Ross Gload, and Aaron Miles is "building for the future. Ha. Pretty much everyone in the upper 2 divisions of the Sox farm system (with a few exceptions) is crap... No present, no future. The Sox need to keep the biggest bats (Thomas, Caballo, Ordonez, etc.) and add some key, players to the middle of the field. Agreed. The top of the order should be Matsui Castillo OR Castillo Guzman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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