Luckily, this weeks shit show was in the Western time zone, so I was asleep for most of it

4 minutes ago, Tony said:

Which this team hasn’t been for about a year now.

It’s a bad roster. It was a bad roster in the offseason, it was a bad roster in the preseason, and it’s a bad roster now. 

Bowman should be gone before Q, honestly. 

I disagree, mostly because the Hawks special teams have been putrid during most of of Q's time here. I'd like to see what this team could do with a modern PP/PK. Bowman has been great at drafting, which is needed now more than ever. 

9 minutes ago, Tony said:

Stan Bowman is responsible for a roster that has continued to deteriorate year after year. Bad trades, extensions when they aren’t needed, and just poor evaluation of players. 

No the NHL salary cap is responsible for that. I won't argue about some of the extensions, but the Cap is more responsible for the Hawks problems than anything else. That is the cap doing it's job. The other unintended consequence of the cap is that trading players when cap strapped prevents a team from getting fair value for its players. What are they going to do, forfeit games until they get a fair deal? \

Panarin for Saad was 100% a cap move. 

The only move that really hurt the Hawks long-term was Seabrook. 

Edited November 4, 20187 yr by Jack Parkman

34 minutes ago, Tony said:

That’s the easy, low hanging fruit answer. The cap hasn’t been crippling to the Penguins. Hasn’t seemed to close the window for the Bruins. 

Asset management has been piss poor for the Hawks the last 4-5 years. That and incredible lack of imagination with scouting. Versteeg x3. Ladd? Sharp? Oduya? Kruger this season? 

Keep defending this roster. See where it’s at next year, then beyond.It’s going to get worse before it gets better. 

I'm not defending the roster, because I know it is and was crap. I know it is going to get worse before better. There isn't much Bowman can do really. Even last season, they were up against the cap. The only reason they have any room now is because of the Hossa LTIRetirment. The only thing the Hawks could have done to avoid the cap trouble they've had is to let one of 19/88 walk or not sign Seabrook. Signing Seabrook was dumb at the time and remains dumb. You can't afford to have even one bad contract in today's NHL. 

In any event, The Penguins had the advantage of one thing: Timing. They signed Malkin and Crosby before the new CBA removed back diving contracts(Crosby) and immediately after that CBA had written(Malkin), before star salaries started to go north of 10M. If the Penguins had to sign Crosby and Malkin 2 years later they'd be making 11-12.5M each, and I'm not sure they could have put a good team around them. Their last two cups are about luck and timing more than anything else. It helps Pittsburgh that Both Crosby and Malkin are better players than any forward the Hawks have.  Also, the Bruins have Bergeron on a long term deal at 6.5M and they wouldn't be able to have a competitive team either without that contract. That one was also signed before the last CBA negotiation, otherwise, it would be in the 9-10M range.  They're both benefiting from luck and timing more than anything else. Sorry, not a good comparison. 

The only comparison that the Hawks can really have are the Kings and Ducks, and they're bad too. The Hawks are the first successful team to feel the true wrath of the salary cap. Some other teams have benefited from timing that the Hawks didn't. 

Edited November 4, 20187 yr by Jack Parkman

Hawks need to do something about their pro scouting. Their amateur and European scouting is great. Their pro scouting on the other hand is one of the worst in the NHL. I mean Brandon Manning? Chris Kunitz? That is definitely on Bowman sure, but somebody needs to be fired for recommending that. 

12 minutes ago, SoxAce said:

Hawks need to do something about their pro scouting. Their amateur and European scouting is great. Their pro scouting on the other hand is one of the worst in the NHL. I mean Brandon Manning? Chris Kunitz? That is definitely on Bowman sure, but somebody needs to be fired for recommending that. 

I think that was more Quenneville wanting vets than anything else. 

6 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I think that was more Quenneville wanting vets than anything else. 

Eh.. I'd buy that if Stan didn't have a history of acquiring or signing guys who are worthless or on their last legs (Handzus, Rozsival, Mayers, Sharp, etc.)

Just now, SoxAce said:

Eh.. I'd buy that if Stan didn't have a history of acquiring or signing guys who are worthless or on their last legs (Handzus, Rozsival, Mayers, Sharp, etc.)

And I'd argue they were all Q guys, with the exception of maybe Handzus. 

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

No the NHL salary cap is responsible for that. I won't argue about some of the extensions, but the Cap is more responsible for the Hawks problems than anything else. That is the cap doing it's job. The other unintended consequence of the cap is that trading players when cap strapped prevents a team from getting fair value for its players. What are they going to do, forfeit games until they get a fair deal? \

Panarin for Saad was 100% a cap move. 

The only move that really hurt the Hawks long-term was Seabrook. 

Panarin for Saad was a cap move for 2019-2021, when their stars will be older and slower and badder. That's on Bowman, he freaked out about the future when the time to win is now.

Just now, LittleHurt05 said:

Panarin for Saad was a cap move for 2019-2021, when their stars will be older and slower and badder. That's on Bowman, he freaked out about the future when the time to win is now.

I will say this, the only way that is defensible is if they got blindsided by Hossa's LTIRetirement. If they expected Hossa to continue playing, then it makes sense. Otherwise it was a panic move. 

27 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

And I'd argue they were all Q guys, with the exception of maybe Handzus. 

Sharp is/was definitely a Bowman guy especially considering he gave him an extension prior. 

17 hours ago, Tony said:

And where was the rule that Panarin had to be traded for Saad? Someone wants to argue that it was because of the cap..fine? There were other trades to entertain than just Brandon Saad, which so far has turned out to be a disaster. 

He was probably the only player available other than futures, we don't know. I do agree they should have shot a little higher on that one. There was also the thought that Panarin would regress to a 50 point player and was purely a product of Kane, which didn't help things either. 

In any event, the Hawks need drafting more than ever, and Bowman's record of finding NHLers in the back half of the 1st round is impeccable, whether they kept the player long-term or not:

2010: Kevin Hayes(25)

2011 Mark McNeill(only bad pick, 18) Philip Danault(26)

2012 Teuvo Teravainen (18)

2013 Ryan Hartman(30)

2014 Nick Schmaltz(20)

2015-16  No 1st round pick

2017 Henri Jokiharju (29)

And the jury is still out on Boqvist but I really like him. 

If you want to argue that his cap mismanagement has cost them TT/Hartman, I won't argue that. Bowman has his flaws with trading and cap management, I won't deny that. I understand why people want him gone, but when you look at that draft record, I don't think it is wise to throw that away when your team is in the crapper. It also might be the only thing he does well as a GM. 

Edited November 5, 20187 yr by Jack Parkman

12 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

He was probably the only player available other than futures, we don't know. I do agree they should have shot a little higher on that one. There was also the thought that Panarin would regress to a 50 point player and was purely a product of Kane, which didn't help things either. 

In any event, the Hawks need drafting more than ever, and Bowman's record of finding NHLers in the back half of the 1st round is impeccable, whether they kept the player long-term or not:

2010: Kevin Hayes(25)

2011 Mark McNeill(only bad pick, 18) Philip Danault(26)

2012 Teuvo Teravainen (18)

2013 Ryan Hartman(30)

2014 Nick Schmaltz(20)

2015-16  No 1st round pick

2017 Henri Jokiharju (29)

And the jury is still out on Boqvist but I really like him. 

If you want to argue that his cap mismanagement has cost them TT/Hartman, I won't argue that. Bowman has his flaws with trading and cap management, I won't deny that. I understand why people want him gone, but when you look at that draft record, I don't think it is wise to throw that away when your team is in the crapper. It also might be the only thing he does well as a GM. 

He traded Panarin for Saad and Hjalmarsson for Murphy. His US scouts must be complete shit, too. If it’s anyone’s fault, it’s his but Q will be the first to go.

FWIW, the Hawks won 3 Cups. I’m thankful. On top of that, at least they aren’t a train wreck of an organization like the Senators. Google “Duchene Uber” and you’ll see why.

1 minute ago, soxfan49 said:

He traded Panarin for Saad and Hjalmarsson for Murphy. His US scouts must be complete shit, too. If it’s anyone’s fault, it’s his but Q will be the first to go.

FWIW, the Hawks won 3 Cups. I’m thankful. On top of that, at least they aren’t a train wreck of an organization like the Senators. Google “Duchene Uber” and you’ll see why.

I don't see Hjalmarsson for Murphy as a negative, He is probably their 2nd or 3rd best Defenseman. Murphy was their best last year. Q hates him because he replaced Hjalmarsson. Murphy was better for the Hawks than Hjalmarsson was for the Coyotes last year. 

Edited November 6, 20187 yr by Jack Parkman

8 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I don't see Hjalmarsson for Murphy as a negative, He is probably their 2nd or 3rd best Defenseman. Murphy was their best last year. Q hates him because he replaced Hjalmarsson. Murphy was better for the Hawks than Hjalmarsson was for the Coyotes last year. 

Not going to argue with you but Connor Murphy sucks

10 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

He traded Panarin for Saad and Hjalmarsson for Murphy. His US scouts must be complete shit, too. If it’s anyone’s fault, it’s his but Q will be the first to go.

FWIW, the Hawks won 3 Cups. I’m thankful. On top of that, at least they aren’t a train wreck of an organization like the Senators. Google “Duchene Uber” and you’ll see why.

Agreed with all of this, it was a great run but Bowman has made the trades that really hurt this closing window of contention.

What a shitshow up there in Ottawa LOL Duchene hasn't even been there that long and he's done with that dumpster fire org.

Wow!!

Crazy they waited until 3 days after the last game.

Whoa!  I guess we have gotten to the desperation stage.

Holy shit.

Bowman wins the battle.  I wonder how long his leash will be.

For nostalgic purposes, this sucks.

And the Blackhawks current head coach was born in 1985.  I'm old.

Who is the new coach? I know nothing about him other than his name. 

20 minutes ago, Tony said:

I always kind of laugh at the “Thank You” threads in PHT for Sox players based on this last decade of Sox baseball. With that said...Thanks for everything, Q. We’ll NEVER forget it. 

Q is an excellent coach, but every coach has a shelf life and his time had come. That said, his PP/PK were dreadful most of his time here, and they won 3 cups despite that. 

12 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Who is the new coach? I know nothing about him other than his name. 

33-year old ex-player who they hired at Rockford last year after a good stint coaching in Sweden.  Or so this Daily Herald article says, I know nothing either.

https://www.dailyherald.com/sports/20170518/chicago-blackhawks-hire-head-coach-for-rockford-icehogs