YASNY Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Its not so much about him being a fan of the Cardinals as it is him PUBLICLY stating that he wanted to pitch for the Cardinals right in the middle of new contract talks. You can look at it with your rosy colored glasses on, but any way you slice it that is disrespectful toward the team your currently play for. As long as he is in a Sox uniform his loyality and commitment should be directed exclusively towards the Sox with no questions asked(that means at no point should he come out and say he would rather play for another team). Most players that make statements like Buehrle are severely fined or traded. IF you were ever a former athlete at a high level you would know that it is a no-no to say you want to play on another team while still on your current team. Loyalty, and especially respect, is a two way street. I haven't seen the Sox showing very much loyalty over the years. In fact, the have been obnoxiously hard nosed to players heading out of town. If you feel that Buehrle that Buehrle is at fault for this, then, based on their past record in this area, you certainly shouldn't be a Sox fan. Oh boy! Am I gonna catch some hell for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 Loyalty, and especially respect, is a two way street. I haven't seen the Sox showing very much loyalty over the years. In fact, the have been obnoxiously hard nosed to players heading out of town. If you feel that Buehrle that Buehrle is at fault for this, then, based on their past record in this area, you certainly shouldn't be a Sox fan. Oh boy! Am I gonna catch some hell for this. The way the White Sox hav treated Mark I don't really blame him for wanting to pitch for the team he grew up rooting for. Still if I was him, I would hav accepted that 5 year 27.5 milliion deal that he was offered last year. I think he (his agent) thought he deserved C.C Sabathia type of money or betta than that. Also, I don't like giving Jose 5 million, when we should be locking up our core group in the long term. We could hav gotten some1 cheaper to play SS and still be effective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 They definately weren't separated by about 50% which was the difference between the guarenteed money that MB was offered and that Zito got. Has anyone actually seen a copy of the offer that was made to Mark? I'd be curious to see it, since I missed it and am not EXACTLY sure what was offered and what was not. I think the details are just from his dad talking about it. I can't imagine Mark would make copies and distribute it. That's my point....... We are getting information that came from Mark's agent, to Mark, to Mark's dad to HSC. I am not saying anyone is lying or wrong, but you know there are always two sides to every story and that when you start getting information second and third hand, the reliability of that information lessens. Until I know what was offered in detail, I am not one to bash the Sox for that offer. Just seems like common sense to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steff Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 I am not saying anyone is lying or wrong, but you know there are always two sides to every story and that when you start getting information second and third hand, the reliability of that information lessens. Ohhh.. I know exactly what you mean. Exactly!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted November 7, 2003 Share Posted November 7, 2003 They definately weren't separated by about 50% which was the difference between the guarenteed money that MB was offered and that Zito got. Has anyone actually seen a copy of the offer that was made to Mark? I'd be curious to see it, since I missed it and am not EXACTLY sure what was offered and what was not. An actual copy, no. But it was widely reported that the deal was 3 years $11.5 mil guarenteed with upto 5 years $26 million possible if incentives and options were all met. IF that is exactly what the deal was, I believe that is fair. He would average almost 4 million per season and if he pitches well he will earn more in years 4 and 5. If not, then he is a free agent and can take his chances. The concept of a team HAVING to offer a 4-5 year contract that is 100% guaranteed is stupid. If teams want to do it, fine, but there is no obligation to do so. The Konerko contract is a perfect example. If MB would have flopped over the next two years, Sox fans would have been crowing about how dumb that contract was, had it been guaranteed money. It's a catch 22. Mark seemed to have gotten reasonable offer and turned it down. That is his prerogative. I don't think Sox fans should hold hostility against either party in this case. It was a business decision and I don't think either party is screwing the other. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 They definately weren't separated by about 50% which was the difference between the guarenteed money that MB was offered and that Zito got. Has anyone actually seen a copy of the offer that was made to Mark? I'd be curious to see it, since I missed it and am not EXACTLY sure what was offered and what was not. An actual copy, no. But it was widely reported that the deal was 3 years $11.5 mil guarenteed with upto 5 years $26 million possible if incentives and options were all met. IF that is exactly what the deal was, I believe that is fair. He would average almost 4 million per season and if he pitches well he will earn more in years 4 and 5. If not, then he is a free agent and can take his chances. The concept of a team HAVING to offer a 4-5 year contract that is 100% guaranteed is stupid. If teams want to do it, fine, but there is no obligation to do so. The Konerko contract is a perfect example. If MB would have flopped over the next two years, Sox fans would have been crowing about how dumb that contract was, had it been guaranteed money. It's a catch 22. Mark seemed to have gotten reasonable offer and turned it down. That is his prerogative. I don't think Sox fans should hold hostility against either party in this case. It was a business decision and I don't think either party is screwing the other. Posts like that are all too rare around here. Good job, Rex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 Rex is certainly one of a kind. I'm glad he's on our side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted November 8, 2003 Share Posted November 8, 2003 Not so sure about all of that, but since beers were offered, I'll cetainly drink to it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 "As a lifelong, 21 year old White Sox fan, I am very concerned over the direction this team is going." -- No offense, but this is all you needed to say. Our team has never been going in the right direction under cheap management. We're trying to win it all with mirrors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 They definately weren't separated by about 50% which was the difference between the guarenteed money that MB was offered and that Zito got. Has anyone actually seen a copy of the offer that was made to Mark? I'd be curious to see it, since I missed it and am not EXACTLY sure what was offered and what was not. An actual copy, no. But it was widely reported that the deal was 3 years $11.5 mil guarenteed with upto 5 years $26 million possible if incentives and options were all met. IF that is exactly what the deal was, I believe that is fair. He would average almost 4 million per season and if he pitches well he will earn more in years 4 and 5. If not, then he is a free agent and can take his chances. The concept of a team HAVING to offer a 4-5 year contract that is 100% guaranteed is stupid. If teams want to do it, fine, but there is no obligation to do so. The Konerko contract is a perfect example. If MB would have flopped over the next two years, Sox fans would have been crowing about how dumb that contract was, had it been guaranteed money. It's a catch 22. Mark seemed to have gotten reasonable offer and turned it down. That is his prerogative. I don't think Sox fans should hold hostility against either party in this case. It was a business decision and I don't think either party is screwing the other. In light of the Konerko situation, the most teams should offa high price playa's is a max of 2 years. If they don't perform, u don't hav a long term liability on ur hands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Hudler Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 What you have suggested has basically been discussed/suggested/recommended since multiple year contracts became the norm in the early 80's (possibly farther back). It is not a new concept or one that is smart now because of the current climate, it is and always has been thought of as smart business. Unfortunately, the combination of owners and agents seems to throw common sense business practices out the window when negotiating. A perfect example was the talk of escalating salaries and such that led to the 1994 strike, led by the Sox own Jerry Reinsdorf. Shortly after that, Reinsdorf did none other than give Albert Belle a contract that blew everyone out of the water. There are many other examples with other owners/GMs, but the bottom line is the pressure to win increases the pressure to acquire the right players. That pressure makes normally fiscally responsible men spend in a very irresponsible way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pastime Posted November 9, 2003 Share Posted November 9, 2003 Rex, I see your point. You know better than anyone that I'm not a Kenny fan, and don't admit to being one. However, give him a $70 million payroll, and he would blow all our socks off. I just have a feeling that he could really make something out of this season and make it special - or at least worth following. And I have as much confidence in him as I do in hoping it will be 90 degrees in Chicago's December. Last year was the most fun I've had as a Sox fan for a really long time. The end result sucked, but it was fun anyways. I was tortured in the Northeast for 3 weeks not being able to get my Sox fix. Just another one of my silly posts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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