WestEddy Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Ah yes, we have done nothing and we are all out of ideas. Wonderful. We could be in talent accumulation mode, but why. Where in the world do you get this from? They've actually assembled a reasonable looking pitching staff. They're spoiled for choice at 3 IF positions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 7 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Why are you comparing two acquisitions in which when one (Fletcher) cost a prospect and one (Canario) only cost cash considerations? Your scenario does not match the reality of what happened. If Canario were to fail, he only cost cash considerations, a 40-man roster spot, and some at bats, and the Sox have enough junk on their 40-man that they could have made room for him. If Meidroth is a bust, are you going to tell yourself that he wasn’t a bad trade target just because you thought he was a good one? That’s not how it works. Getz and his team have way more access to data on players than we do and it’s their job to pick the right ones, not yours or mine. It’s not like I said I’d move to another city if Fletcher is a bust. That would make no sense. Jerry isn’t paying me to be the Sox GM. He gifted the job to Getz. The onus is on him, not me. Many people also liked the Santos trade and now it looks pretty mediocre. You have been defending Slater’s acquisition this offseason — like I asked earlier, what does he really do for this team with where it is at? You said 2 potential wins. Well, if the Tauchman and Slater platoon end up winning the Sox 2 games in a 100 loss season, the only guy who will ultimately care and remember those meaningless wins is probably Greg, cuz of course — “just win baby!” Again, my point is Chris Getz isn’t just a fan like us, he is accountable for the results of the team. He got a free pass last year because of the s%*# sandwich he inherited, but if we lose 121 games again that might be it for him as GM. As such, he can’t just run out any random young player next year and risk total disaster across the field. He’s got to balance developing young players while also shoring up the team in a few spots with a budget that’s candidly garbage. Slater is a guy who put up a 137 wRC+ against LHP from 2019 to 2023. He was admittedly bad last year, but was much better with the O’s (114 wRC+ against LHP) to close out the season. The question is can he be a +120 wRC+ platoon hitter again over the course of a full season. If he can, he helps shore up a position that we got -2 wins out of last season and actually creates a trade chip with some value (even if not massive). For $1.75M, I believe it’s a worthwhile gamble, especially with his former hitting coach now in our org. As for Meidroth, he was the third piece of a major trade and like all prospects of his stature he could certainly bust. I personally like that we acquired him and believe his combination of elite plate discipline and bat to ball skills will play at the majors to some extent. If he’s a full on bust, it doesn’t really change my opinion of the trade unless there was a red flag missed or his carrying tools don’t hold in the majors. I can and will certainly hold Getz accountable for a broader set of misses, but it wouldn’t be unfair of me to completely change my stance on a particular move I supported just due to the benefit of hindsight. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Again, my point is Chris Getz isn’t just a fan like us, he is accountable for the results of the team. He got a free pass last year because of the s%*# sandwich he inherited, but if we lose 121 games again that might be it for him as GM. As such, he can’t just run out any random young player next year and risk total disaster across the field. He’s got to balance developing young players while also shoring up the team in a few spots with a budget that’s candidly garbage. Slater is a guy who put up a 137 wRC+ against LHP from 2019 to 2023. He was admittedly bad last year, but was much better with the O’s (114 wRC+ against LHP) to close out the season. The question is can he be a +120 wRC+ platoon hitter again over the course of a full season. If he can, he helps shore up a position that we got -2 wins out of last season and actually creates a trade chip with some value (even if not massive). For $1.75M, I believe it’s a worthwhile gamble, especially with his former hitting coach now in our org. As for Meidroth, he was the third piece of a major trade and like all prospects of his stature he could certainly bust. I personally like that we acquired him and believe his combination of elite plate discipline and bat to ball skills will play at the majors to some extent. If he’s a full on bust, it doesn’t really change my opinion of the trade unless there was a red flag missed or his carrying tools don’t hold in the majors. I can and will certainly hold Getz accountable for a broader set of misses, but it wouldn’t be unfair of me to completely change my stance on a particular move I supported just due to the benefit of hindsight. Totally agree with you on your last paragraph. The problem is that we aren’t privy to all the information on each and every player/prospect that Getz signs or trades for so we aren’t basing our opinions on players with the same information and data as Getz and his team have. They should have more knowledge of all of these players so we should be wrong more often than them. Also, results matter. Whether we like a trade or not from the start, if none of the players acquired turn into productive major leaguers, the trade is more than likely a failure. Especially if people are expecting this rebuild to produce results in 3+ years. Edited March 4 by WhiteSox2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 19 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Where in the world do you get this from? They've actually assembled a reasonable looking pitching staff. They're spoiled for choice at 3 IF positions. Can you please list these players out at each of the 3 infield positions? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 19 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Ah yes, we have done nothing and we are all out of ideas. Wonderful. We could be in talent accumulation mode, but why. Now that would be a good idea. Thats what the last few trades have been about. Neither the kid or Slater qualify as potential talent. Like you said since it's a wasted year when everyone knows they are going to be bad, neither really matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 26 minutes ago, ptatc said: That's fine. You don't need to understand it it. Different people have different views on what to do with the wasted year. In the end it's all about biding time until the prospects are ready. Or until they are ready to sign actual good players. So why wouldn’t adding and playing additional prospects make sense instead of playing veterans that won’t be here in a year and won’t be traded for squat? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 26 minutes ago, WestEddy said: And they do keep adding players with a future with the organization. If they're going to take on serious rehab projects like Canario, they might as well just work with the guys they've already laid a foundation with in DeLoach, Fletcher and Colas. You're the guy who hates panic, right? DFAing Colas for a bigger project would be that. They could have DFA’ed a number of bad players. It didn’t have to be Colas. Owen White for one, and he is already a serious rehab project. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 32 minutes ago, WestEddy said: And they do keep adding players with a future with the organization. If they're going to take on serious rehab projects like Canario, they might as well just work with the guys they've already laid a foundation with in DeLoach, Fletcher and Colas. You're the guy who hates panic, right? DFAing Colas for a bigger project would be that. If they aren't going to play Colas, I would be on board for a project like this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) 22 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: So why wouldn’t adding and playing additional prospects make sense instead of playing veterans that won’t be here in a year and won’t be traded for squat? That would be a good idea if the prospect in question had any value. Neither player will be a long term solution and since they already signed slater to a deal it's not worth cutting a guy for another player they are going to cut. Edited March 4 by ptatc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 15 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: They could have DFA’ed a number of bad players. It didn’t have to be Colas. Owen White for one, and he is already a serious rehab project. Or not loaded up the roster with old middle relievers and utility players knowing that DFAs happen all winter and spring long... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 9 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Or not loaded up the roster with old middle relievers and utility players knowing that DFAs happen all winter and spring long... I agree except for the middle relievers. The bullpen was so bad it's worth taking a flyer on some to see if they can catch lightening in a bottle as receiver performances are so fickle from year to year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 10 minutes ago, ptatc said: I agree except for the middle relievers. The bullpen was so bad it's worth taking a flyer on some to see if they can catch lightening in a bottle as receiver performances are so fickle from year to year. Weird, I keep getting told how we have too many pitchers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Weird, I keep getting told how we have too many pitchers. Not from me. You can never have too much pitching. I think they do have many young prospects but they should keep them starting until that fails. Until that sorts itself out, they need to find bullpen help. I do think over the next few years the bullpen will be mostly homegrown talent but they aren't there yet. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) 23 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Or not loaded up the roster with old middle relievers and utility players knowing that DFAs happen all winter and spring long... You think that Getz would realize this by now considering he DFA both DeLoach and Amaya and was able to retain one and reclaim the other since he was put back on waivers again. If you have multiple guys that can be DFA, not claimed, or were DFA a second time so you can reclaim them, you definitely have players you can dump from your roster for other players. 🤣 Edited March 4 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 10 minutes ago, ptatc said: Not from me. You can never have too much pitching. I think they do have many young prospects but they should keep them starting until that fails. Until that sorts itself out, they need to find bullpen help. I do think over the next few years the bullpen will be mostly homegrown talent but they aren't there yet. I am in your camp, I just wish they would trend younger instead of older, unless they are getting a Q type starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Honestly, fine with me. I'd be playing Colas and Fletcher every day if it were up to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 14 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said: Honestly, fine with me. I'd be playing Colas and Fletcher every day if it were up to me. This would be my first choice, but if it isn't going to happen, find someone with years of control to try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46DidIt Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 If Canario has no shot, how is it he made it to the major leagues. There is zero chance Slater does anything to help this team sniff .500 at any point. There is a greater than zero chance Canario becomes a serviceable mlb player at some point over the next few years. If not there would be no loss compared to carrying Slater in a hundred plus loss season. Should be a no brainer Can’t believe people are actually arguing in favor of Slater here 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 25 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: I am in your camp, I just wish they would trend younger instead of older, unless they are getting a Q type starter. I think it will once they get through the organizational changes. The organization was in such bad shape from the previous GM, that it will take a couple of years to reset. With the budget restrictions place on the GM, the development needs to be paramount and it takes time to get that going. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 8 minutes ago, 46DidIt said: If Canario has no shot, how is it he made it to the major leagues. There is zero chance Slater does anything to help this team sniff .500 at any point. There is a greater than zero chance Canario becomes a serviceable mlb player at some point over the next few years. If not there would be no loss compared to carrying Slater in a hundred plus loss season. Should be a no brainer Can’t believe people are actually arguing in favor of Slater here He hasn't yet. Neither player will help them get to .500. Both would be stop gaps until a real player is developed or signed. And neither of those is happening this year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 6 minutes ago, ptatc said: I think it will once they get through the organizational changes. The organization was in such bad shape from the previous GM, that it will take a couple of years to reset. With the budget restrictions place on the GM, the development needs to be paramount and it takes time to get that going. And what better way than to bring in people to develop? Find guys with some plus tools who have a non-zero chance at being on the Sox next winning team, instead of declining guys with zero chance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46DidIt Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 7 minutes ago, ptatc said: He hasn't yet. Neither player will help them get to .500. Both would be stop gaps until a real player is developed or signed. And neither of those is happening this year. He hasn’t yet what? Made it to the majors? He has .850+ OPS in 45 mlb ABs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46DidIt Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 6 minutes ago, 46DidIt said: He hasn’t yet what? Made it to the majors? He has .850+ OPS in 45 mlb ABs He also can play CF whereas Slater is barely adequate in LF. You can say Canario wouldn’t help the sox 3-4 years down the road, but you don’t know that. We can say for a fact Slater won’t be Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Can you please list these players out at each of the 3 infield positions? You don't need me to spend my time typing out a list of names you could just go look up. If you think the White Sox have no young options to play the infield, I'm not sure what you're following. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 52 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Weird, I keep getting told how we have too many pitchers. No, you don't. We do have many starting options, more than the traditional 5 per minor league level. As you have noted, some will work from the bullpen, and injuries will occur. However, you don't need just 8 bullpen arms for the season. Some will fail out, injuries will occur, and then there's the trade deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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