Here is the challenge

[southsider2k5]

OK for all of the all knowing people on this site, who have bashed KW this off season, I am throwing down the gauntlet.

 

How would you improve the team, WITHOUT spending anymore than the league minimum or minor league contracts, on free agents. That is unless the $5 million the Sox are overbudget, plus the actual space of the contracts you would be aquiring. Also factoring in the backlash of fans if certian big name players are traded, and making sure that the trades are resonable enough that other GM's won't simply laugh you off of the phone.

[jasonxctf]

i'd start dealing some top level prospects for a #1/#2 pitcher.

[aboz56]

Before I answer this, it would be helpful to have a place where I can see the value of all major league contracts for next season.

[Chisoxfn]

Well, I think under the current situation, it will be pretty difficult right now. I'd look to get players that could help the Sox this year, but my goal would be to improve them next year and in years down the road and get this team in a position where they will be fine financially.

 

I think KW has a hard task at hand though, because he's going to have to deal Maggs and at least Konerko to get things rolling and that seems very difficult.

[baggio202]

there is nothing you can do to fix this season...this disaster is 3 years in the making..all thanks to kenny..

 

 

what team in their right mind would take konerko and his 17 millionn dollar contract over the next 2 years...we couldnt give him away for free..the only way to trade would be to agree to take someone else's overpriced piece of crap in exchange..you could trade konerko for todd hundley but how does that really help either team???

 

 

what i would do if i took over would be to first..improve the scouting dept...our scouts suck bigtime....none of our prospects ever live up to the hype...every year all we hear is our scouts say this guy is a stud (onan masaoka - remember him??...i didnt think so) and this guy is the next mickey mantle blah blah blah...on a small budget team a premium has to be placed out scouting..you have to be able to find diamonds in the rough...in 3 years we have one - damaso marte - not a good track record..

 

 

next i dismantle this team..the only high priced talent i keep is buehrle...id keep maggs if i could convince him to sign a reasonable long term deal but i doubt that would ever work because im sure the last thing he wants to hear is the new guy's 5 year rebuilding plan...

 

 

the money you do have has to be spent on up the middle players and starting pitching (which is why i keep buehrle as my only high priced guy)..thats why id have to dismantle this team...all the money right now is being spent on corner infielders and outfielders (maggs , konerko ,lee)..if we were the yankees then you can spend millions on every position but on a budget you have to get the most for you dollars and you get the most out of up the middle players...if you need a functional first baseman you can find atleast 5 every year in the free agent market that wouldnt cost you near what we pay konerko and most of them would be much more productive..you cant say that about up the middle players as we have seen with our struggles to replace durham , singlteton ect...

 

id also make sure we were balanced..with left handed hitters that can hit left handed pitching..not just platoon players..

 

id work to get my up the middle defense and starting pitching set..once that happens then id move to spend more money to put the final pieces in place...

[Harry Chappas]

They can't do anything without losing value for the players they trade. KW hands are tied because of the contracts given to Konerko, Ordonez, and Koch. Enjoy the season for 78 wins.

[southsider2k5]

i'd start dealing some top level prospects for a #1/#2 pitcher.

Unless you are talking about pitchers that are making near the minimum salary, the team can't afford it, without moving other contracts. Remember the Sox are $5 mil or so overbudget, and are not allowed to add payroll. Period. Every deal done must either be a zero sum trade, or net subtract salary.

[southsider2k5]

They can't do anything without losing value for the players they trade.  KW hands are tied because of the contracts given to Konerko, Ordonez, and Koch.  Enjoy the season for 78 wins.

Exactly. This is a near impossible task.

[baggio202]

Exactly.  This is a near impossible task.

its not impposible..nothing is impossible..but you have to have a plan and stick with it...for three years kenny has been all over the place....remember trading baldwin???..he said we could afford to get rid of baldwin because he was "just a bridge" until the young phenoms from the farm system were ready to take over..and that time had come....then that next off season..only two months in baseball time (aug - sept) he trades kipper , fogg , and lowe to the pirates for todd ritchie saying we had to make this move because we have no veteran pitching and the youngsters arnt ready...

 

thats just one example of this guy not having a freaking clue about what he is doing

[mac9001]

I think this team needs to start over, deal Mags, Konerko (it should be easier midseason), Koch (same as Konerko), and if E-Lo gets off to a good start try and sign him to a 3 year extension, if he declines; trade him.

 

Next season, i'd look for as much young pitching i can find and spend every available penny to acquire it, along with the best SS (other than Nomar) the market has to offer.

[aboz56]

Off the top of my head, here is next year's team and salaries. If anyone can help fill any of the blanks I have, please feel free:

 

Buehrle: 3.5 million

Loaiza: 3.5 million

Garland: 2.3 million

Show: 1.75 million

Politte: 800K

Wunsch: 800K

Koch: 6.375 million

Marte:

Sanders:

Wright:

Ginter/Adkins/other:

 

Konerko: 8 million

Thomas: 6 million

Lee: 6.5 million

Ordonez: 14 million

Rowand:

Harris:

Crede:

Alomar, Jr:

Olivo:

Uribe:

Valentin: 5 million

Borchard/other:

[southsider2k5]

its not impposible..nothing is impossible..

I didn't say impossible, I said "near" impossible.

 

But what I am trying to prove is that there isn't going to be a miracle cure for this team before openning day, because there isn't one!

[Chisoxfn]

Early in this offseason, the Sox could of rebuilt and got this team ready. Right now though, it seems like most of the trade routes have closed, with exception to the Dodgers who will not do anything until the sale is finalized.

 

This leaves the Sox with crap to do, imo. Kw had his opportunity early in the offseason to jump out and make the moves. Of course from what was reported, he had big plans after the Nomar deal...but I still find that hard to believe.

[baggio202]

I didn't say impossible, I said "near" impossible. 

 

But what I am trying to prove is that there isn't going to be a miracle cure for this team before openning day, because there isn't one!

we know..and whose fault is that???...the GM

[mac9001]

Early in this offseason, the Sox could of rebuilt and got this team ready.  Right now though, it seems like most of the trade routes have closed, with exception to the Dodgers who will not do anything until the sale is finalized.

 

This leaves the Sox with crap to do, imo.  Kw had his opportunity early in the offseason to jump out and make the moves.  Of course from what was reported, he had big plans after the Nomar deal...but I still find that hard to believe.

Yeah, it's definitely too late now, but come the All-Star beark and the trade deadline teams will get more desperate. KW better get busy than if were out of the race by than.

[southsider2k5]

we know..and whose fault is that???...the GM

KW is responsible for the fact that his player development has been horrible over the last 5 years or so? If we had even an inkling of our prospects coming out anywhere close to what they were predicted, half of KW's bad deals wouldn't have been forced. If Kip Wells had done half of what he did for Pitt, Todd Ritchie would have never been here. If Rauch hadn't had the major injury, or come back strong from it, we wouldn't be worrying about a 5th starter, same with Danny Wright and Rocky Biddle. If Borchard had developed anywhere near what he was predicted it would be easy to trade Maggs or Lee.

[baggio202]

KW is responsible for the fact that his player development has been horrible over the last 5 years or so?  If we had even an inkling of our prospects coming out anywhere close to what they were predicted, half of KW's bad deals wouldn't have been forced.  If Kip Wells had done half of what he did for Pitt, Todd Ritchie would have never been here.  If Rauch hadn't had the major injury, or come back strong from it, we wouldn't be worrying about a 5th starter, same with Danny Wright and Rocky Biddle.  If Borchard had developed anywhere near what he was predicted it would be easy to trade Maggs or Lee.

who was director of the farm system prior to becoming GM?? and that vaunted farm system that was number one in all of baseball is the reason KW got the GM in the first place...and as it turns out the farm system was a joke...

 

as for kip wells...he spent all of 1/2 seasons in the minors...he was learning to pitch at the major league level...as soon as he figured it all out we traded him..you dont rush a kid to the majors in his rookie year of pro ball w/o being willing to live through the growing pains...

 

how can people not see this guy hasnt got a clue what he is doing...whats it gonna take..a 100 loss season???

[southsider2k5]

who was director of the farm system prior to becoming GM?? and that vaunted farm system that was number one in all of baseball is the reason KW got the GM in the first place...and as it turns out the farm system was a joke...

 

as for kip wells...he spent all of 1/2 seasons in the minors...he was learning to pitch at the major league level...as soon as he figured it all out we traded him..you dont rush a kid to the majors in his rookie year of pro ball w/o being willing to live through the growing pains...

 

how can people not see this guy hasnt got a clue what he is doing...whats it gonna take..a 100 loss season???

Don't get me wrong, by no means do I think KW is anything special as a GM. I blame Kenny for a lot of things, the biggest being mulitpling the culture of distrust to where players have no interest in staying in Chicago. That is why we have had to give ridiculous contracts to guys like Koch, Konerko, etc, because no one wants to play here for a normal salary. And that is because of the assine BS going on in our front office. Offers disappearing, he said, she said crap, lies being told to and about players etc. No one trusts this team. Granted that stuff started before Kenny got here, but it sure has gotten much worse since he took over. It says everything to me when Graffy and Robbie leave for less money somewhere else.

 

The big point of this thread was for all of the arm chair GM's who seem to know how to run this team, to show their stuff. Operate within the perameters that JR has laid out, and see how they would fix this team. There have been so many posts about how bad this off season has been, but I have yet to see a feasible solution to what to do. I really want to see one of the people screaming about this off season come up with a realistic solution within the guidelines of JR.

[baggio202]

Don't get me wrong, by no means do I think KW is anything special as a GM.  I blame Kenny for a lot of things, the biggest being mulitpling the culture of distrust to where players have no interest in staying in Chicago.  That is why we have had to give ridiculous contracts to guys like Koch, Konerko, etc, because no one wants to play here for a normal salary.  And that is because of the assine BS going on in our front office.  Offers disappearing, he said, she said crap, lies being told to and about players etc.  No one trusts this team.  Granted that stuff started before Kenny got here, but it sure has gotten much worse since he took over.  It says everything to me when Graffy and Robbie leave for less money somewhere else.

 

The big point of this thread was for all of the arm chair GM's who seem to know how to run this team, to show their stuff.  Operate within the perameters that JR has laid out, and see how they would fix this team.  There have been so many posts about how bad this off season has been, but I have yet to see a feasible solution to what to do.  I really want to see one of the people screaming about this off season come up with a realistic solution within the guidelines of JR.

okay..gotchaya..i think i answered that question earlier in the thread about what id do and while it might the best plan in the world , atleast it is one...something we seem to be lacking for the past 3 years....btw..your point on the clubhouse distrust is very good...if you dont mind id like to use it at the Q and A when i speak my peace about kenny

[witesoxfan]

I already said what I would do in a different thread, so I'll try to summarize it.

 

For starters, this occurs very early in the offseason.

 

I first trade Maggs to LA for Perez, Mota, and then Jackson and/or Miller(which I know they won't accept, that's why I sweeten it by throwing in Schowenweis, David Sanders, and Felix Diaz). I then trade Konerko and Borchard to Anaheim for Troy Percival, along with $1.5 mill extra(Anaheim takes the deal, knowing they can still go out and get another arm with their extra $1 mill because Konerko's deal adds $500 K if he is traded, meaning he goes from making $7.5 for us to making $8 mill in Anaheim and they get a potential huge stud in the majors someday in Borchard, a guy who can possibly hit 40-50 homers a year if he figures it out). I then trade Koch and Ginter to NYM for Weathers. I then sign Matt Stairs and Reggie Sanders with $5-6 mill that I have left over(I figure $8 mill from the Maggs trade, then $6.5 mill after the Konerko traded, then about $10.5 mill after the Koch trade). Also, instead of trading Miles for Uribe, I just keep Miles, and I have he and Harris see who can have the better ST and the winner will obviously get 2B. I also make a few moves to help improve the bench, though if I were GM, I'd figure them out later.

 

Harris 2B/Rowand CF

Sanders RF

Thomas DH/1B

Stairs 1B/DH

Lee LF

Valentin SS

Crede 3B

Rowand CF/Harris 2B

Olivo C

 

Loaiza, Buehrle, Garland, Perez, Wright/Grilli/Rauch/someone else

 

Bullpen with Percival closing, Marte and Mota setting up, Weathers and Wunsch as middle relief, and then a #6 guy(whether it be that we sign Politte or Dan Wright or Grilli, etc).

 

Bench would probably have Gload, Miles, Alomar, Orlando Palmeiro, and Denny Hocking.

 

Lineup makes about $25.5 mill, rotation makes about $15 mill, bullpen makes $15 mill, and the bench makes about $4.5.

 

Together, it would be about $60 mill, and while this would seem overbudget, I rounded almost everything up, and I couldn't remember how much Loaiza and Buehrle made exactly, so I said $4 mill for both, and I believe both make $3.5 mill, which would save another million; I said Perez made $4 mill, and he might only make $3.5-$4, somewhere in that area; I had Garland making $2.5 while he only makes $2.3; I had Marte making $1.5 and he may only make $1; I had Mota making $2 and he may only make $1-$1.5; I had every minimum wage player making $500 K, etc. In the end, we would be lower in the budget.

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, if you meant how would I fix the team now, IMO, there is next to nothing that can be done. Trading Maggs would free up money, but what would you spend the money on? The only thing it would be helpful with is using at the trade deadline, and at that time we may be sellers, not buyers.

[SoxAce]

I already said what I would do in a different thread, so I'll try to summarize it.

 

For starters, this occurs very early in the offseason. 

 

I first trade Maggs to LA for Perez, Mota, and then Jackson and/or Miller(which I know they won't accept, that's why I sweeten it by throwing in Schowenweis, David Sanders, and Felix Diaz).  I then trade Konerko and Borchard to Anaheim for Troy Percival, along with $1.5 mill extra(Anaheim takes the deal, knowing they can still go out and get another arm with their extra $1 mill because Konerko's deal adds $500 K if he is traded, meaning he goes from making $7.5 for us to making $8 mill in Anaheim and they get a potential huge stud in the majors someday in Borchard, a guy who can possibly hit 40-50 homers a year if he figures it out).  I then trade Koch and Ginter to NYM for Weathers.  I then sign Matt Stairs and Reggie Sanders with $5-6 mill that I have left over(I figure $8 mill from the Maggs trade, then $6.5 mill after the Konerko traded, then about $10.5 mill after the Koch trade).  Also, instead of trading Miles for Uribe, I just keep Miles, and I have he and Harris see who can have the better ST and the winner will obviously get 2B.  I also make a few moves to help improve the bench, though if I were GM, I'd figure them out later.

 

Harris 2B/Rowand CF

Sanders RF

Thomas DH/1B

Stairs 1B/DH

Lee LF

Valentin SS

Crede 3B

Rowand CF/Harris 2B

Olivo C

 

Loaiza, Buehrle, Garland, Perez, Wright/Grilli/Rauch/someone else

 

Bullpen with Percival closing, Marte and Mota setting up, Weathers and Wunsch as middle relief, and then a #6 guy(whether it be that we sign Politte or Dan Wright or Grilli, etc).

 

Bench would probably have Gload, Miles, Alomar, Orlando Palmeiro, and Denny Hocking.

 

Lineup makes about $25.5 mill, rotation makes about $15 mill, bullpen makes $15 mill, and the bench makes about $4.5. 

 

Together, it would be about $60 mill, and while this would seem overbudget, I rounded almost everything up, and I couldn't remember how much Loaiza and Buehrle made exactly, so I said $4 mill for both, and I believe both make $3.5 mill, which would save another million; I said Perez made $4 mill, and he might only make $3.5-$4, somewhere in that area; I had Garland making $2.5 while he only makes $2.3; I had Marte making $1.5 and he may only make $1; I had Mota making $2 and he may only make $1-$1.5; I had every minimum wage player making $500 K, etc.  In the end, we would be lower in the budget.

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, if you meant how would I fix the team now, IMO, there is next to nothing that can be done.  Trading Maggs would free up money, but what would you spend the money on?  The only thing it would be helpful with is using at the trade deadline, and at that time we may be sellers, not buyers.

For the record, They COULD have dealt Weathers for Koch, but The Mets GM backed off because that was Glavine's golfing buddy.

[SoxAce]

I already said what I would do in a different thread, so I'll try to summarize it.

 

For starters, this occurs very early in the offseason. 

 

I first trade Maggs to LA for Perez, Mota, and then Jackson and/or Miller(which I know they won't accept, that's why I sweeten it by throwing in Schowenweis, David Sanders, and Felix Diaz).  I then trade Konerko and Borchard to Anaheim for Troy Percival, along with $1.5 mill extra(Anaheim takes the deal, knowing they can still go out and get another arm with their extra $1 mill because Konerko's deal adds $500 K if he is traded, meaning he goes from making $7.5 for us to making $8 mill in Anaheim and they get a potential huge stud in the majors someday in Borchard, a guy who can possibly hit 40-50 homers a year if he figures it out).  I then trade Koch and Ginter to NYM for Weathers.  I then sign Matt Stairs and Reggie Sanders with $5-6 mill that I have left over(I figure $8 mill from the Maggs trade, then $6.5 mill after the Konerko traded, then about $10.5 mill after the Koch trade).  Also, instead of trading Miles for Uribe, I just keep Miles, and I have he and Harris see who can have the better ST and the winner will obviously get 2B.  I also make a few moves to help improve the bench, though if I were GM, I'd figure them out later.

 

Harris 2B/Rowand CF

Sanders RF

Thomas DH/1B

Stairs 1B/DH

Lee LF

Valentin SS

Crede 3B

Rowand CF/Harris 2B

Olivo C

 

Loaiza, Buehrle, Garland, Perez, Wright/Grilli/Rauch/someone else

 

Bullpen with Percival closing, Marte and Mota setting up, Weathers and Wunsch as middle relief, and then a #6 guy(whether it be that we sign Politte or Dan Wright or Grilli, etc).

 

Bench would probably have Gload, Miles, Alomar, Orlando Palmeiro, and Denny Hocking.

 

Lineup makes about $25.5 mill, rotation makes about $15 mill, bullpen makes $15 mill, and the bench makes about $4.5. 

 

Together, it would be about $60 mill, and while this would seem overbudget, I rounded almost everything up, and I couldn't remember how much Loaiza and Buehrle made exactly, so I said $4 mill for both, and I believe both make $3.5 mill, which would save another million; I said Perez made $4 mill, and he might only make $3.5-$4, somewhere in that area; I had Garland making $2.5 while he only makes $2.3; I had Marte making $1.5 and he may only make $1; I had Mota making $2 and he may only make $1-$1.5; I had every minimum wage player making $500 K, etc.  In the end, we would be lower in the budget.

 

 

 

 

 

BTW, if you meant how would I fix the team now, IMO, there is next to nothing that can be done.  Trading Maggs would free up money, but what would you spend the money on?  The only thing it would be helpful with is using at the trade deadline, and at that time we may be sellers, not buyers.

For the record, They COULD have dealt Weathers for Koch, but The Mets GM backed off because that was Glavine's golfing buddy.

[SoxAce]

f***! sorry again for the double post I blame myself 4 it. I let too many people on it and they always play around on my computer. Forgive me..

[southsider2k5]

f***! sorry again for the double post I blame myself 4 it. I let too many people on it and they always play around on my computer. Forgive me..

If you duplicate a post you can hit "delete" within the post and it will erase.

[southsider2k5]

okay..gotchaya..i think i answered that question earlier in the thread about what id do and while it might the best plan in the world , atleast it is one...something we seem to be lacking for the past 3 years....btw..your point on the clubhouse distrust is very good...if you dont mind id like to use it at the Q and A when i speak my peace about kenny

Feel free.