Velocity lies

[BrandoFan]

Garland was touted as possessing a 94-96mph fastball in the minors back in 2000.

Lorenzo Barcelo - 95-99

Jason Stumm 94-97

Danny Wright - 95-98

Matt Ginter - 93-95

Joe Valentine - 95-99

Kyle Kane, Wyatt Allen were also said to be mid-high-90's

 

Yeah riiight......

 

Felix Diaz is another disappoitment in that respect. I expected "Baby Pedro" to live up to the hype and showcase a blazing fastball in 93-95 range with movement. "Electric stuff", "live arm"....the hell?

 

Its gotten to a point where I have to subtract 2 mph every time I hear a Sox prospect velocity. Fool me once and all that.

 

Thre are exceptions: Kip Wells was in 91-93 zone with the Sox, and went on to throw 93-97 with the Pirates in 2002 which was in synch with 94-96 hype. Scott Dunn did throw 94-96 as well. Bajenaru is another one who is supposed to throw pretty hard.

 

And I want say that EVERY team inflates velocity and Sox are no different, but it wouldn't be true all the time: Kerry Wood is 94-99 as advertised. Mark Prior - 93-97. Zambrano - 93-98. Farnsworth - 93-101. Juan Cruz - 93-98. Beltran - 94-97 Wellmeyer - 93-96.

[Chisoxfn]

Actually, when Zambrono came up he was advertised to throw a 101 MPH fastball. I heard that said about him numerous times on Cubs broadcasts.

 

Still, he is one of the best pitchers in the majors, even without that 101 MPH fastball

[kapkomet]

Actually, when Zambrono came up he was advertised to throw a 101 MPH fastball.  I heard that said about him numerous times on Cubs broadcasts.

 

Still, he is one of the best pitchers in the majors, even without that 101 MPH fastball

The thing about him is his stuff moves. Damn good movement.

[WSox30]

Inflate it just like football players inflate height/weight

[BrandoFan]

Actually, when Zambrono came up he was advertised to throw a 101 MPH fastball. I heard that said about him numerous times on Cubs broadcasts.

 

101? No way. He was supposed to throw in upper-90's as a RELIEVER, which he was in the minors, but when they decided to make him a starter, expectations were in line with what he throws now. Of course, with his movement he could throw 91-92 -- hell, the Dodgers could't TOUCH him and he throw 80-90% fastballs.....And then you had Felix Diaz pitching at the same time with that straight 91mph batting practice ball. :puke

 

Do you agree that it's ridiculous the way Sox hyped the aformentioned prospects, velocity-wise? I cannot believe anything else they say quite frankly. I am still waiting for Cotts's "bizarro world slider"....

[BobDylan]

The best pitch in the majors is an upper 90's fastball. With it, you can get away with missed breaking pitches, floating change ups, etc. more often. Without it, (Buehrle, Garland, all the Sox pitchers) you get hammered.

 

Schilling? Heat. Ryan? Heat. Wood? Heat. Prior? Heat. Granted, they all have pretty good secondary pitches. However, are they good because they can offset hitters with an exploding fastball?

 

Yes, yes, I realize the importance of those secondary pitches. Without them, the fastball is worthless. But it's not extremely hard to develop a decent curveball, or a cutter, and throw in a change up.

[Chisoxfn]

See, I think the Sox aren't the ones to blame for these velocity hypes. BA really seems to hype the radar gun and they do it with a lot of prospects.

 

Jessie Foppert of the Giants was hyped to have a 98 MPH fastball, maybe even as high as 99 and then I saw him at the major league level and he's 90-93 which is a big difference.

 

I can tell you one thing, I don't think these guys are coming to the majors and throwing less, I think BA is just full of crap at times with their gun readings and they sometimes say a guy throws a bit harder because they think they will eventually project or something.

 

For example, Honel is 88-91 when healthy and Wing is about 86-88 and don't let anyone tell you any different. As far as Adkins, I saw him down in Charlotte and he was throwing harder then he is now with the Sox, but he seems to have better life on his pitches now so who knows.

 

Garland can also still get it up there but he overthrows and the pitch straightens out when he throws that hard.

 

Also, I can't say I ever heard of Cotts bizzaro world slider. I don't even think Cotts throws a slider and if he does, he doesn't throw it often. Cotts was pretty much a fastball, change pitcher with a developing curve last year. His curve has definately gotten better as has his control. He also has the cutter now.

 

Wing is the lefty that has a sick slider and I can vouge for that.

[Jordan4life_2007]

To hell with velocity. I would just like to see our "hyped up" pitching prospects perform at the major league level for once.

[witesoxfan]

To hell with velocity.  I would just like to see our "hyped up" pitching prospects perform at the major league level for once.

It's a lot easier to perform at the major league level with a 94-96 MPH fastball(or faster) then it is with an 88-90 MPH fastball. Much easier to setup other pitches, especially if you have mediocre secondary pitches. With 94-96 heat, while occasionaly touching 97 or 98, a small breaking ball can get hitters to buckle. A weak changeup can look great. A mediocre slider can be devastating. Once that fastball drops a couple MPH, you can sit back on it just a little more, and the curveball is somehow hung more and hit more then before while not being thrown any differently. The changeup looks like BP to the hitter and you wonder why your neck hurts the next day, when you didn't do anything to your neck the day before. And the slider gets the s*** hit out of it.

 

Mike Mussina has been a great pitcher throughout his career because he can hit 92-94 on the gun and can even touch 95 now and then. That fastball sets up his change and his nasty knucklecurve. This year, his fastball's velocity has been down just a bit...around 86-88...and his numbers have been less then stellar.

 

What is Randy Johnson if, instead of throwing 95-98, he starts throwing 90-92? Quite simply, he's toast. The hitters can sit back on that slider and see it break down and away, and they take it instead of swing. What is Curt Schilling without his heat? What is Kerry Wood without his heat? What is Mark Prior without his heat? What is Josh Beckett without his heat? What is Bartolo Colon without his heat? Need I continue?

 

I am NOT saying you need to throw it hard to be effective...Jamie Moyer won 21 games last year as a 41 year old and he can't throw it any harder then 85 MPH. Greg Maddux has won 15 or more games each of the past 15 years, and his fastball is topping out at about 86 or 87 nowadays. Mark Buehrle gets up to 90 or 92 on a damn good day(or a damn bad day...sometimes, having that lack of velocity is all it takes to fool the hitters). I'm just saying that velocity helps a hell of a lot more then not having it does.

[BrandoFan]

What is Bartolo Colon without his heat? Need I continue?

 

What is he WITH heat?

 

He got tagged again BIG-time. Nice investment, Angels.

[BrandoFan]

For example, Honel is 88-91 when healthy and Wing is about 86-88 and don't let anyone tell you any different.

 

Honel was supposed to be 92-94 with a potential to throw 94-96 as he "filled up".

 

Big f***ing liars all of them. :headshake

 

And Wing better have more than just a slider. He needs a superb control with his heater and at least another out pitch. He also need to be healthy. Until then, I say forget about him.

[Rex Hudler]

Garland was touted as possessing a 94-96mph fastball in the minors back in 2000.

Lorenzo Barcelo - 95-99

Jason Stumm 94-97

Danny Wright - 95-98

Matt Ginter - 93-95

Joe Valentine - 95-99

Kyle Kane, Wyatt Allen were also said to be mid-high-90's

 

Yeah riiight......

 

Felix Diaz is another disappoitment in that respect. I expected "Baby Pedro" to live up to the hype and showcase a blazing fastball in 93-95 range with movement. "Electric stuff", "live arm"....the hell?

 

Its gotten to a point where I have to subtract 2 mph every time I hear a Sox prospect velocity.  Fool me once and all that.

 

Thre are exceptions:  Kip Wells was in 91-93 zone with the Sox, and went on to throw 93-97 with the Pirates in 2002 which was in synch with 94-96 hype.    Scott Dunn did throw 94-96 as well.  Bajenaru is another one who is supposed to throw pretty hard.

 

And I want say that EVERY team inflates velocity and Sox are no different, but it wouldn't be true all the time: Kerry Wood is 94-99 as advertised. Mark Prior - 93-97. Zambrano - 93-98. Farnsworth - 93-101.    Juan Cruz - 93-98. Beltran - 94-97  Wellmeyer - 93-96.

Brando, let me chime in on this one........ I basically agree with you, but as Jason said, I don't think it is the Sox hyping their prospects as much as it is publications like BA.

 

I spoke with a professional trainer not too long ago and he told me that it is common for players to see fairly large decreases in velocity after they start playing professionally, especially HS draftees. He said that those players are not used to the workload, both in the length of the season, but also often in higher pitch counts and in the conditioning programs. Most HS pitchers throw once a week. Colleges will sometimes push pitchers harder, especially when it comes to tournament time, but their workload is still nowhere near what it is in the professional ranks.

 

He said that some players work harder than others. Many assume they will alsways be able to do what they have always done and rely on talent. Some go through the motions when throwing on the side between starts. Others use that time wisely. Some do their lifting and running with a purpose. Others give it a cursory effort because they are required to.

 

Lastly, some of these guys just aren't that smart. All they know how to do is throw. When you start making mechanical changes to make them into a "pitcher", they never find a way to adapt.

 

All of these factors can affect a pitcher's velocity.

 

That said, I'll comment on the players you mentioned that I have seen.... I'll note that I have seen both scouts radar guns and stadium radar guns. When there are variances, I have adjusted to find a truer number.

Garland - I don't recall him ever being touted as that hard of a thrower. If I recall correctly, he was a 91-92 guy who could get it up to 94 on occasion.

Barcelo - threw 93-94 but could get it up to 96-97. He seemed to throw that hard effortlessly too. Injuries really cost him.

Stumm - Injuries have also cost him. I have been told that he was easily mid-90's when he was healthy, but 92 or 93 was as high as I saw him get to last year, in the few appearances he made at Birmingham.

Wright - Danny was legitimately in the mid-90's in Birmingham. I saw him get it up to 97-98 on occasion. I believe his big drop in velocity came when he abandoned a 4-seam fastball and adopted a 2-seamer to try to gain more movement and command.

Ginter - He was never 93-95 in Birmingham. 91-92, topping at 93 perhaps. He was a heavy sinker, hard slider type pitcher. I was just never sold that Ginter had the competitiveness between the ears necessary to make it big.

Valentine - Joe topped out at 96 and was consistently at 92-94. He also had a nasty slider to go with. Command was his problem. He got himself into too many jams (though he got out of most of them). I don't recall him being touted as throwing up to 99.

Kane- Kyle finally started throwing well the last year he was in Birmingham, which happens to be his last healthy season. He was throwing 92-94. Again, multiple injuries don't help.

Allen - I haven't seen him do much more than 91-92 so far, but I have only seen him pitch 2-3 times. I did see him hit 95-96 on the TV radar gun when pitching in the College WS.

Diaz - "Baby Pedro" was a bit far-fetched. Diaz does have good stuff and if I recall correctly he was 91-93, hitting 94 here and there. I never felt the urge to call his stuff "electric". I think somehow the Pedro comparisons came about because of his size and him being from the Dominican.

Kip Wells- Kip got it up to 94 or maybe 95, but was consistently in the 92-93 range.

Scott Dunn - I only saw him a few times and I remember him bringing it pretty well, but I don't recall radar readings.

 

I saw Prior once on Opening Day and he was 92-94. Juan Cruz was legit 93-97 and had the electric stuff. He just never could harness it. Zambrano was one of those heavy fastball guys. He dominated the Southern League and was there for only 9 starts. He was a starter and was dominating, so the Cubs promote him to AAA and make a reliever. I never could figure that out. He pitched a day game in Birmingham and no one hit the ball hard. He broke several bats and seemed to get a weak pop up or ground ball every at bat. In fact, that was his last game in AA. He walkeda few guys, and gave up a few hits, but no one stung the ball off of him. He was in the 93-94 range if I recall. I do know he wasn't burning up the gun with high 90's stuff.

 

The hardest thrower I have seen was Brewers prospect Nick Neugebauer. He was hitting 99 on the stadium gun in Birmingham, which was typically 1-2 mph slower than the scouts guns. I never saw the scouts guns, but he hit it several times over a couple appearances. He is another guy that injuries have just killed.

[Rex Hudler]

Honel was supposed to be 92-94 with a potential to throw 94-96 as he "filled up".

 

Big f***ing liars all of them. :headshake 

 

And Wing better have more than just a slider.  He needs a superb control with his heater and at least another out pitch. He also need to be healthy. Until then, I say forget about him.

A note on Honel....... He never hit 90 in his two starts last year for the Barons. A scout told me he saw him 4 times last year and rarely saw him hit 90. Honel told me earlier this year that he used to get up to 95 in HS.

 

That and 75 cents will buy you a coke in some places, but I thought I would share.

[Rex Hudler]

The guy I was really disappointed with and was crowing about last year in terms of "scouting reports" being far from reality was Royce Ring. HE was touted as a 90's guy, even mid-90's at times and he was throwing 86-88 consistently in Birmingham last year. Rarely did I ever see him even reach 90. I did see him get to 91 once, I think.

[BrandoFan]

Brando, let me chime in on this one........   I basically agree with you, but as Jason said, I don't think it is the Sox hyping their prospects as much as it is publications like BA.

 

I spoke with a professional trainer not too long ago and he told me that it is common for players to see fairly large decreases in velocity after they start playing professionally, especially HS draftees.  He said that those players are not used to the workload, both in the length of the season, but also often in higher pitch counts and in the conditioning programs.  Most HS pitchers throw once a week.  Colleges will sometimes push pitchers harder, especially when it comes to tournament time, but their workload is still nowhere near what it is in the professional ranks.

 

He said that some players work harder than others.  Many assume they will alsways be able to do what they have always done and rely on talent.  Some go through the motions when throwing on the side between starts.  Others use that time wisely.  Some do their lifting and running with a purpose.  Others give it a cursory effort because they are required to.

 

Lastly, some of these guys just aren't that smart.  All they know how to do is throw.  When you start making mechanical changes to make them into a "pitcher", they never find a way to adapt. 

 

All of these factors can affect a pitcher's velocity. 

 

That said, I'll comment on the players you mentioned that I have seen....  I'll note that I have seen both scouts radar guns and stadium radar guns.  When there are variances, I have adjusted to find a truer number.

Garland - I don't recall him ever being touted as that hard of a thrower.  If I recall correctly, he was a 91-92 guy who could get it up to 94 on occasion. 

Barcelo - threw 93-94 but could get it up to 96-97.  He seemed to throw that hard effortlessly too.  Injuries really cost him.

Stumm - Injuries have also cost him.  I have been told that he was easily mid-90's when he was healthy, but 92 or 93 was as high as I saw him get to last year, in the few appearances he made at Birmingham.

Wright - Danny was legitimately in the mid-90's in Birmingham.  I saw him get it up to 97-98 on occasion.  I believe his big drop in velocity came when he abandoned a 4-seam fastball and adopted a 2-seamer to try to gain more movement and command.

Ginter - He was never 93-95 in Birmingham.  91-92, topping at 93 perhaps.  He was a heavy sinker, hard slider type pitcher.  I was just never sold that Ginter had the competitiveness between the ears necessary to make it big.

Valentine - Joe topped out at 96 and was consistently at 92-94.  He also had a nasty slider to go with.  Command was his problem.  He got himself into too many jams (though he got out of most of them).  I don't recall him being touted as throwing up to 99.

Kane- Kyle finally started throwing well the last year he was in Birmingham, which happens to be his last healthy season.  He was throwing 92-94.  Again, multiple injuries don't help.

Allen - I haven't seen him do much more than 91-92 so far, but I have only seen him pitch 2-3 times.  I did see him hit 95-96 on the TV radar gun when pitching in the College WS.

Diaz - "Baby Pedro" was a bit far-fetched.  Diaz does have good stuff and if I recall correctly he was 91-93, hitting 94 here and there.  I never felt the urge to call his stuff "electric".  I think somehow the Pedro comparisons came about because of his size and him being from the Dominican.

Kip Wells- Kip got it up to 94 or maybe 95, but was consistently in the 92-93 range.

Scott Dunn - I only saw him a few times and I remember him bringing it pretty well, but I don't recall radar readings.

 

I saw Prior once on Opening Day and he was 92-94.  Juan Cruz was legit 93-97 and had the electric stuff.  He just never could harness it. Zambrano was one of those heavy fastball guys.  He dominated the Southern League and was there for only 9 starts.  He was a starter and was dominating, so the Cubs promote him to AAA and make a reliever.  I never could figure that out.  He pitched a day game in Birmingham and no one hit the ball hard.  He broke several bats and seemed to get a weak pop up or ground ball every at bat.  In fact, that was his last game in AA.  He walkeda few guys, and gave up a few hits, but no one stung the ball off of him.  He was in the 93-94 range if I recall.  I do know he wasn't burning up the gun with high 90's stuff.

 

The hardest thrower I have seen was Brewers prospect Nick Neugebauer.  He was hitting 99 on the stadium gun in Birmingham, which was typically 1-2 mph slower than the scouts guns.  I never saw the scouts guns, but he hit it several times over a couple appearances.  He is another guy that injuries have just killed.

Good stuff, Rex, good stuff.

 

Of course I realized those scouting reports and "rumors" were lies as soon as I saw those pitchers pitch in person or on TV. Some things, including mechanics and arm speed, can't be faked.

 

But believe me the numbers I listed, as unlikely as they may seem now, ARE exactly what was flying around circa 1999-2001. From BA Top 10 to Hawk Harrelson to Chicago newspaper articles to message board hype.

 

His doctors said Barcelo could top a 100 within a few years of his TJ. Joe Valentin was the "hardest thrower" in the organizaton that reached upper 90's. Ditto for Kyle Kane.....And on and on the BS rolled.

 

I didn't mention this, but the hype doesn't extend just to the fast-ball/four-seamer. Breaking ball, too. They always make it sound quicker and sharper-breaking that it really is. And it's just as annoying.

 

You bring excellent points re: professional workload, laziness and/or mechanical changes (sometimes injury-, sometimes control-related) negatively affecting velocity.

 

For example, when he used his four-seamer in 2000, Garland was routinely 93-94 when I saw him in the bigs, and since scout guns are usually faster and Jon would have been more rested pitching once a week, especially pre-surgery, I could see how they could come up with the "threw 94-96 in high-school" in the report.

 

But there is no question that Cubs prospects are less hyped in terms of velocity. There is supringly small deviation from the scouting reports from what I've seen.

 

Anyway, what's the gun reading on Bajenaru, B-Mac, Yofu, Pacheco and Munoz? Thanks.

[elrockinMT]

To hell with velocity.  I would just like to see our "hyped up" pitching prospects perform at the major league level for once.

Good point. Our touted minor league pitchers don't seem to produce much do they? Then we get Mark Buerhle who is a low draft choice and the guy comes out of no where to be one of the best. Makes no sense to me.

 

Look at our five starters and Buerhle is the only Sox farm product. I'm not sure any of our relief pitchers are Sox farm hands either.

[Chisoxfn]

Bmac is an 88-92 in velocity. Usually somewhere in between but I've heard his velocity has gone up a little bit this year and he's gotten closer to 93-94. It could explain the little bit of control problems he's had this year (kind of exagerating, but compared to last year it hasn't been as good).

 

Munoz is upper 80's, may hit 90 to 91 on ocassion. Baj is 94-96 if I recall, but I've never seen him pitch, but this isn't me going on BA assessments. I got to be honest, I think bA does a good job, but whenever I see anything about velocity and what not it just seems wrong.

 

I Think part of it is they may rely on the high school gun numbers or projection numbers, but I don't work for them so who knows.

 

I don't think Yofu's a hard thrower, but Rex could better answer that. Pacheco can get it up their, last year he was getting it up to 95 and seemed to sustain the velocity late in the game. Aboz mentioned this year, in his one start (remember, he left that start injured and was placed on the disabled list) but he wasn't hitting that. I'll comment when I see him pitch later in the season, assuming he's healthy. But I do recall Rex saying he had an explosive fastball.

[BrandoFan]

Kyle Kane, Wyatt Allen were also said to be mid-high-90's

 

I didn't post the numbers for those two, but here's an example of what I was talking about, circa early 2002:

 

"The White Sox have drafted heavily for pitching in recent years, resulting in an astonishing arsenal of power arms throughout the system. Nobody runs it up there as fast as Kane, though, who was regularly hitting 99 mph during a dominating Arizona Fall League stint. Kane took little longer to grow into his big frame and gain command on his fastball, but a strong spring could propel him toward destiny as the White Sox' closer of the future."

 

:puke

[Chisoxfn]

What is that from Brando?

[BrandoFan]

Some mag, Street & Smiths or some such. There a were a ton more of similar blurbs around that time, though.

 

Here's Rauch:

 

"Rauch has shown No. 1 stuff -- just ask the Cubans who faced him in the 200 Olympics.........Tools: Did I mention a lot of top prospects got hurt in 2001? Put Rauch in that category. A shoulder injury that required season-ending surgery sidelined him after just six starts at AAA Charlotte, where it was obvious he wasn;t right. If he regains his 2000 form, he'll have a 93-95 mph fastball and the stamina to hold it deep into games, plus a natural down-hill plane that makes lifting a flyball agains him difficult. He also threw a nice slider and a curve before the surgery; what kind of Rauch returns is anyone's guess"

 

Corwin Malone is another I forgot about. Back in 2000 he was supposed to be in 93-95 range, which is a lot for a lefty. Then there was Rocky Biddle who pitched like a Cy Young against the Cubs in 02...

[Rex Hudler]

Anyway, what's the gun reading on Bajenaru, B-Mac, Yofu, Pacheco and Munoz? Thanks.

 

I'll be honest with you in that I never seem to pay attention to the gun when Baj is throwing. It is usually late and my mind is on getting home. I know he can hit 92-93 for sure, but I will look and see what he is throwing the next few outings I see.

 

I have heard 88-91 on BMac, which is basically the same as what Jason said. Yofu can get it up there on occasion, but he doesn't throw hard a lot. Last year the Sox wanted him to use his fastball more. He is the type of pitcher that seems to throw 7 different pitches all at different speeds and arm angles. He never seems to throw the same speed twice. I think I have seen a high on him of 93, but that is rare.

 

Pacheco was a legit 93-95 in the second half of last year. He just really turned it up a notch once he gained confidence after starting the year in the depths of the bullpen. I never saw it any higher than 95, but he was consistent with the 93-95 range.

 

Munoz, like Jason said is in the 80's, consistenly 86-88. He is the kind that can lull a hitter to sleep with an 86 mph fastball, two types of curveball with serious bite and then pop 90 mph fastball right by a guy. I don't ever recall him reaching higher than 91 and similar to Yofu, he doens't throw as hard as he can all the time. He is definitely not a "max effort" guy.

[BrandoFan]

He is definitely not a "max effort" guy.

 

Good to hear. "Max effort" without flawless mechanics = control/health problems.

 

I do wish Munoz had another pitch, for some reason I feel uneasy about 2 pitch starters in the bigs -- unless of course they're like Zambrano, with unhittable fastball.

 

How far away is Yofu? Considering Shingo is making people look awful with just his change and 85mph heater, Yofu sounds like an all star

 

What about Meaux's arsenal? I know he is older and seems to have gotten off to a good start in April.

 

What's your take on Honel and Wing?

 

Thanks.

[Guest JimH]

Tetsu Yofu is 31, so it's tough to say what his long term future is. Sox brass doesn't seem to talk about him much.

 

Meaux spots the fastball well but I doubt he even hits 90, more like 86-88 tops.

He knows what he's doing on the mound but I was a bit surprised to see him converted to a starter. He looked like the prototypical situational lefthander to me.

[Chisoxfn]

Ya, Meaux doesn't get up to 80. He fits in with Wing as a 86-88 guy. I don't even think he can get higher then that and that was when he was in the bullpen. I don't know if his velocity has dropped at all since moving to the pen, but last year thats what Meaux was hitting at the all star game I saw.

[Rex Hudler]

Good to hear. "Max effort" without flawless mechanics = control/health problems.

 

I do wish Munoz had another pitch,  for some reason I feel uneasy about 2 pitch starters in the bigs -- unless of course they're like Zambrano, with unhittable fastball.

 

How far away is Yofu?  Considering Shingo is making people look awful with just his change and 85mph heater, Yofu sounds like an all star 

 

What about Meaux's arsenal?  I know he is older and seems to have gotten off to a good start in April.

 

What's your take on Honel and Wing?

 

Thanks.

Munoz has a nice changeup as well. He is not a two-pitch guy. He throws his change fairly often, actually.

 

As JimH said, the Sox don't seem to be too high on Yofu for some reason, yet he keeps producing results. I'd like to see him get a chance to see if he can do it at a higher level. I believe he belongs in AAA at the minimum right now.

 

Meaux is a pitcher with outstanding command. He mixes a 12-6 curve and a nice change with his fastball and spots all of those pitches very well. He is small and doesn't throw hard, so he is not sexy as a prospect, but the guy can pitch. Can he make it in the bigs? Not sure. Time will tell.

 

I really haven't seen Honel or Wing at all so I can't give you much there. Wing is not even in Birmingham and Honel threw 4 innnings in the season opener and hasn't thrown since. I would not be shocked at all if Honel doesn't pitch the rest of the season. His last simulated game he was only throwing 80-83, topping out at 86 once. I talked to him a few days later and he isn't hurting and they can't find anything wrong, so he is really frustrated.