Jose had two errors today

[GoodAsGould]

that post was beautiful

[BrandoFan]

I could care less how many runs he cost us with today's errors, his defense is piss poor and regardless of the stats you provide or "range" you claim that he has, I won't be convinced otherwise

 

Mebelieves in ze old countreee vee call'd it "gleefully reveling in one's ignorance"

 

[witesoxfan]

Quit being fooled by your love for pornstache and open your eyes and realize that the guy SUCKS. 

I will so long as you open your eyes and realize that Jose is not nearly as bad you make him out to be. I'll let you have Royce Clayton's defense at SS while I take Jose Valentin's defense at SS.

 

That DP ball he booted today was right at him and ROUTINE and he backhands it and boots it...Why is he backhanding a ball that is right in front of him? 

 

Because he wanted to?

 

Because he thought he could make the play like that?

 

Because he wanted to try to be on SportsCenter twice on the highlight reel, one for the homer and one for a good DP?

 

Because he is a dumbass sometimes?

 

Because he is a psychic and knew we were going to win 11-0 and he knew that if he made an error at that point it wouldn't come back to bite him in the ass?

 

Does anyone know?

 

And let's also not forget that Juanny boy has a better arm than stache.

 

Jose's got a pretty damn good arm. If those two got in a throwing competition to see who could throw it harder, I think Jose could probably come out on top.

 

Now as far as accuracy is concerned, I think the fans along the first-base side can tell you who throws it accurately more often.

 

 

Jose's our only LH power. Until we get another LH power hitter, he should be a fix in the everyday lineup(and even if we get another LH power hitter, he can stay in the everyday lineup).

[aboz56]

Jose's got a pretty damn good arm.  If those two got in a throwing competition to see who could throw it harder, I think Jose could probably come out on top. 

 

Now as far as accuracy is concerned, I think the fans along the first-base side can tell you who throws it accurately more often. 

Considering I was at every game this weekend and sat along the first base side, I'll answer that for ya...Uribe has a stronger arm than Valentin...I watched carefully, Uribe has a cannon. Jose has a good arm, but not as good as Uribe's. He is our only lefty power, but once we get Reed up (which will be as soon as his wrists are 100%), you'll see a 3 man rotation at 2B/SS with Uribe, Valentin and Harris. We don't need a power hitter and that is the damn problem with this team. We need a guy who uses the whole field and gets on base, not a .250 avg with 25 HR. I think the past few years have shown that swinging for the fences isn't going to win the division. Reed will fit in nicely with his style of spraying the ball all over the field for singles and doubles. In fact he reminds me a lot of the Twins players who swing for base hits instead of swinging for the fences.

[Spiff]

What the f***, we agree on most topics.  Why don't you go on telling people "I told you so" about Milton Bradley and Antoine Walker and such.

I don't know if that was supposed to be a burn or not, cause I'm pretty sure I was gonna go on doing that anyway.

 

Maybe you could do it too, if you learned how to form an opinion of your own.

[witesoxfan]

I don't know if that was supposed to be a burn or not, cause I'm pretty sure I was gonna go on doing that anyway.

 

Maybe you could do it too, if you learned how to form an opinion of your own.

I've wanted Lee out of here for quite some time now. And I've been a Jose backer since about 2001 or 2002.

 

I could give a s*** about politics and government. And I don't think I like the Bills or bowling because of Brando either.

 

But if you want to think I do, go ahead.

[aboz56]

I've wanted Lee out of here for quite some time now.  And I've been a Jose backer since about 2001 or 2002. 

 

I could give a s*** about politics and government.  And I don't think I like the Bills or bowling because of Brando either.

 

But if you want to think I do, go ahead.

Just out of curiousity, do you have a pornstache like Jose's?

[BrandoFan]

Considering I was at every game this weekend and sat along the first base side, I'll answer that for ya...Uribe has a stronger arm than Valentin...I watched carefully, Uribe has a cannon. Jose has a good arm, but not as good as Uribe's.

 

First of all, Jose is 34 and no longer in prime velocity-wise. Duh.

 

Secondly.....part of the reason why Jose finished 2003 on a really good note defensively was because he took a lot off his throws as per to Santana's advice. He short-arms it more now, almost leisurely.

 

Watch the velocity on Jose's relay throw against the Cubs last year or some of the the DP pivot throws on bang-bang plays at 1st. You'll seriously reconsider your statement. Uribe throws very hard but Valentin can still get it up there on occasion.

 

Uribe is going to win a GG some day, maybe as early as next year. But before that happens, he needs to take better reads/routes to the ball. Maybe then he'll avoid 5-run-causing f***ups against the likes of Cleveland.

[witesoxfan]

Just out of curiousity, do you have a pornstache like Jose's? 

I only wish. Man, if I had a stache like that, I'd be banging all the babes.

 

I wonder if he and Big Pimpin' Willie go out for chicks every night. Cuz I'm sure they could bag a dozen per night each.

[YASNY]

I get so tired of having to defend Jose. He's such an all around solid baseball player.

[JoshPR]

ZERO.

 

Just goes to show how overrated errors really are

Damn!!! No trade Jose Thread!! Gotta be some kind of a record.

[southsider2k5]

Guess what?  He is always sloppy, overwhelming majority of his errors are of routine variety -- just like our hitters try to hit a 2-run HR with noone on base, Jose tries to get 2 outs before the ball is even in the glove. Sometimes it misfires. 

And this is the essence of Jose in the field. Jose is one of the few guys on the team who is thinking baseball the whole time he is in the field. As he is going to make a play, he is already making the play in his head. He is already thinking- so and so is at first base, if I backhand this, I can still make a quick turn to 2nd to get him... etc. You can tell because you never see him make a wrong play. His mistakes are almost always trying to do things too quickly. Pulling his glove up before the ball is there, trying to take the ball out of his mitt, before it is in the pocket, etc. Because of his mental approach to the game, these are the kind of mistakes he is going make, it is the nature of the beast. But I would rather have a field full of guys with this mental approach, than the Carlos Lee, wave to the crowd, take off your mitt and look around in between pitches approach.

 

The reasons Jose's errors don't cost us the way that other players do, is because Jose always knows what to do with the ball, before anything ever happens. Not many other players on our team can say that.

[Dick Allen]

I don't agree with the theory that Valentin's errors don't hurt the team. Even if it doesn't appear to initially, his miscues put stress on the pitchers, and force them to face extra hitters, and make more pitches. This comes back to haunt the Sox more often than not later in the game. Last year he did have a pretty good year defensively, but this year he has been horrible.

[aboz56]

I don't agree with the theory that Valentin's errors don't hurt the team. Even if it doesn't appear to initially, his miscues put stress on the pitchers, and force them to face extra hitters, and make more pitches. This comes back to haunt the Sox more often than not later in the game. Last year he did have a pretty good year defensively, but this year he has been horrible.

Exactly, he probably cost Buehrle a few more batters yeserday... :headshake

[BrandoFan]

I don't agree with the theory that Valentin's errors don't hurt the team. Even if it doesn't appear to initially, his miscues put stress on the pitchers, and force them to face extra hitters, and make more pitches. This comes back to haunt the Sox more often than not later in the game. Last year he did have a pretty good year defensively, but this year he has been horrible.

BS.

 

Just as his errors put "stress" on a pitcher....the leaping catches, deep in the hole gunning, relay throws, tough DP pivots and other similar plays "relieve" such stress.

 

Or did you think 3 above-average plays don't uplift a pitcher as long as the error is made? How disingenuous.

[Dick Allen]

BS.

 

Just as his errors put "stress" on a pitcher....the leaping catches, deep in the hole gunning, relay throws, tough DP pivots and other similar plays "relieve" such stress.

 

Or did you think 3 above-average plays don't uplift a pitcher as long as the error is made? How disingenuous.

The guy missed what, 15- 17 games, and only has 1 less error than the other 1b,2b,ss, and 3rd basemen combined. If he continues his current pace and plays the remainder of the season, he will set a record for errors. Uribe is a stud defensively, and thus far has been stellar at the plate. If the are going to continue with Harris in CF, SS is the more important defensive position, so Uribe should be at short, and let Valentin play 2b.

[BrandoFan]

The guy missed what, 15- 17 games, and only has 1 less error than the other 1b,2b,ss, and 3rd basemen combined. If he continues his current pace and plays the remainder of the season, he will set a record for errors. Uribe is a stud defensively, and thus far has been stellar at the plate. If the are going to continue with Harris in CF, SS is the more important defensive position, so Uribe should be at short, and let Valentin play 2b.

He'll still finish around 20 for the season, trust me. Last year he was on pace to 50 errors this time around, and then all of the sudden just started paying attention on routine plays and stopped making errors.

 

Uribe played less at SS this year and already led to MORE runs defensively. He misplayed a routine chopper (I think by Vizquel or Belliard) and gave the 4th out to the Indians and they tagged the Sox for 5 runs. 5 runs is more than Jose's 8 errors caused COMBINED. And Uribe is an excellent fielder.

 

With a horrible 8-error start, Jose's ZoneRating has definately dropped but it's still 5th best in the league, it dropped to just under 900 after yesterday's game. That mean he made outs on close to 90% of groundballs and line-drives hit in his direction. By comparison, the brilliant Omar Vizquel is at 82%, Renteria at 81% and Christian Guzman is at 76%. Think about it for a second.

 

And mind you, Valentin has nowhere to go fielding-wise but UP at this point, so the 90% number will reflect that.

[Dick Allen]

He'll still finish around 20 for the season, trust me. Last year he was on pace to 50 errors this time around, and then all of the sudden just started paying attention on routine plays and stopped making errors.

 

Uribe played less at SS this year and already led to MORE runs defensively.    He misplayed a routine chopper (I think by Vizquel or Belliard) and gave the 4th out to the Indians and they tagged the Sox for 5 runs. 5 runs is more than Jose's 8 errors caused COMBINED. And Uribe is an excellent fielder.

 

With a horrible 8-error start, Jose's ZoneRating has definately dropped but it's still 5th best in the league, it dropped to just under 900 after yesterday's game. That mean he made outs on close to 90% of groundballs and line-drives hit in his direction.    By comparison, the brilliant Omar Vizquel is at 82%, Renteria at 81% and Christian Guzman is at 76%.    Think about it for a second. 

 

And mind you, Valentin has nowhere to go fielding-wise but UP at this point, so the 90% number will reflect that.

So you're saying Valentin's errors haven't cost any runs? I was sitting in Yankee

Stadium when he threw 2 into the stands. Runs scored then.

[BrandoFan]

The reasons Jose's errors don't cost us the way that other players do, is because Jose always knows what to do with the ball, before anything ever happens.  Not many other players on our team can say that.

Uribe had a couple of very costly plays, Willie blew a few DP's, Crede can be too passive....but overall, I think Sox have one of the best infield 4 in the majors - even with errors, Uribe-Valentin-Harris-Crede have a ton of range and very good arms.

 

This is for 2003

 

Val needs to cut the routine error crap no question, but other than that, infield defense is the least of Sox worries.

[BrandoFan]

So you're saying Valentin's errors haven't cost any runs? I was sitting in Yankee

Stadium when he threw 2 into the stands. Runs scored then.

Reading is a skill, Dick.

 

Of course his error can cost runs - just less than they should (as in 2000 and 2003), and so far they TOTAL less than Uribe's misplay against the Indians ALONE.

[Spiff]

Reading is a skill, Dick.

 

Of course his error can cost runs - just less than they should (as in 2000 and 2003), and so far they TOTAL less than Uribe's misplay against the Indians ALONE.

That is a product of chance, not anything he did directly.

[BrandoFan]

That is a product of chance, not anything he did directly.

Over 1 week perhaps.

 

Over 4 years (2000-2003), it stops being "luck". It's silly to suggest otherwise.

[WSox30]

ZERO.

 

Just goes to show how overrated errors really are

Errors cost games. Dransfeldt error cost us a game. For you to say that is to take away all your credability. But I'll believe you were just in the moment. Errors can cost world series if you have ever heard of the Boston Red Sox. ANd MB saved his ass with that double play ball.

[Mathew]

Errors cost games.  Dransfeldt error cost us a game.  For you to say that is to take away all your credability.  But I'll believe you were just in the moment.  Errors can cost world series if you have ever heard of the Boston Red Sox.  ANd MB saved his ass with that double play ball.

Alex Gonzalez much?

[BrandoFan]

Errors cost games.  Dransfeldt error cost us a game.  For you to say that is to take away all your credability.  But I'll believe you were just in the moment.  Errors can cost world series if you have ever heard of the Boston Red Sox.  ANd MB saved his ass with that double play ball.

Oh and another baseball philistine weighs in.

 

Where's the 'yawn' smilie when you need it?

 

You want to discuss Dranfelt's 4-run error? Since it has nothing whatsoever to do with Jose, might I suggest opening another thread?