sox-r-us Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Olivo is not f***ing Pudge....he can be replaced Reed is a prospect....no one knows how much he will hit when he gets to the majors I am tired of next year....I WANT SOME POST SEASON EXCITEMENT Do you guys realize we gave up Chad Bradford for freaking Randy Johnson (since RJ was dealt mainly for Freddy G) Come on guys....quit your heart felt crying about Olivo because he did not speak to the media on his way out Big deal...this is a freaking business, and when you have not won for 90 years, YOU NEED TO TAKE SOME RISKS We had no #1 (Buerhle sucks as a #1), and now we have one.....now go out and support this team by selling out the place...that way, we will re-sign Freddy By getting Freddy we stopped the Yanks from getting him...if the Yanks had gotten him, we had ZERO NIL NADA chance at beating this this year I swear I would be a millionaire today if I had collected a penny for every freaking time someone here said how Olivio sucks against right handed pitching Guess who we will meet in the playoffs? Schiling, Pedro, Vasquez, Brown, Hudson, Lowe, maybe Colon, Escobar etc etc (except for Zito and Mulder all RHs) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 w0000t Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Do you guys realize we gave up Chad Bradford for freaking Randy Johnson (since RJ was dealt mainly for Freddy G) No offense, but the Bradford-for-Johnson connection is an odd logical leap. I agree with the premise of your rant, and I'm not against the trade at all. It's just too bad that Olivo had to be in that deal. If we had any prospects who could step in, people might not be AS disappointed about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted June 29, 2004 Author Share Posted June 29, 2004 No offense, but the Bradford-for-Johnson connection is an odd logical leap. I agree with the premise of your rant, and I'm not against the trade at all. It's just too bad that Olivo had to be in that deal. If we had any prospects who could step in, people might not be AS disappointed about it. Screw the prospect s***....Sandy is fine for the off season....for next year, we will worry about it in the off season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 No offense, but the Bradford-for-Johnson connection is an odd logical leap. I agree with the premise of your rant, and I'm not against the trade at all. It's just too bad that Olivo had to be in that deal. If we had any prospects who could step in, people might not be AS disappointed about it. Didn't we just draft a catcher in the 2nd or third round and receive a 27 year old Ben Davis back in this deal? There are your prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Didn't we just draft a catcher in the 2nd or third round and receive a 27 year old Ben Davis back in this deal? There are your prospects. "prospects who could step in" A recent draft pick cannot step in anytime soon. I'm hoping that 27-year-old Ben Davis can do the job, but he doesn't really get my energy up right now. He had the starting job in Seattle all but handed to him this spring and ended up back in the minors. I am very hopeful that a new team and new situation will get him straightened out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 "prospects who could step in" A recent draft pick cannot step in anytime soon. I'm hoping that 27-year-old Ben Davis can do the job, but he doesn't really get my energy up right now. He had the starting job in Seattle all but handed to him this spring and ended up back in the minors. I am very hopeful that a new team and new situation will get him straightened out. Johnny Estrada is 28. He never had a starting gig until this year. Maybe when Davis turns 28 he will become more comfortable and learn how to hit as well. Ben Davis' Defense and arm excites me. His hitting and speed does not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Olivo is not f***ing Pudge....he can be replaced Olivo is young talent that is MLB ready. He was doing very well for us. Notrhing says he couldn't continue to mature and become one of the better young catchers in the league. I would bet that 5-7 years down the road, Olivo turns into a stud catcher that you can build a team around(ala Ivan Rodriguez). I think he could potentially be a 20-20 threat in the long run. Do you guys realize we gave up Chad Bradford for freaking Randy Johnson (since RJ was dealt mainly for Freddy G) Chad Bradford was dealt for Miguel Olivo. This is true. However, we also gave Seattle Jeremy Reed(our #1 prospect) and Michael Morse, a solid player. Seattle also got John Halama and Carlos Guillen for RJ. Guillen is only one of the best SS's in the league right now(albeit with the Tigers). It is not Bradford for RJ. It is nothing close to Bradford for RJ. Looking at the main cogs of deals is fine and dandy...when you realize what the main cog of the deal was. It was NOT Olivo for Garcia...Seattle would laugh in our face if that was the deal. It was Olivo and Reed, with a fringe prospect in Morse, for Garcia and Davis. Come on guys....quit your heart felt crying about Olivo because he did not speak to the media on his way out I know I was not sad because Olivo did not talk to the media. I was sad because Olivo is a hell of a player, and he takes nothing for granted. He busts his ass 100% of the time, and if he can help it, he busts ass some more after that. He is a fun-loving guy, and as a fan, you can see that in him. It is hard as f*** to lose Olivo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Olivo is young talent that is MLB ready. He was doing very well for us. Notrhing says he couldn't continue to mature and become one of the better young catchers in the league. I would bet that 5-7 years down the road, Olivo turns into a stud catcher that you can build a team around(ala Ivan Rodriguez). I think he could potentially be a 20-20 threat in the long run. Chad Bradford was dealt for Miguel Olivo. This is true. However, we also gave Seattle Jeremy Reed(our #1 prospect) and Michael Morse, a solid player. Seattle also got John Halama and Carlos Guillen for RJ. Guillen is only one of the best SS's in the league right now(albeit with the Tigers). It is not Bradford for RJ. It is nothing close to Bradford for RJ. Looking at the main cogs of deals is fine and dandy...when you realize what the main cog of the deal was. It was NOT Olivo for Garcia...Seattle would laugh in our face if that was the deal. It was Olivo and Reed, with a fringe prospect in Morse, for Garcia and Davis. I know I was not sad because Olivo did not talk to the media. I was sad because Olivo is a hell of a player, and he takes nothing for granted. He busts his ass 100% of the time, and if he can help it, he busts ass some more after that. He is a fun-loving guy, and as a fan, you can see that in him. It is hard as f*** to lose Olivo. I don't think Olivo becomes this type of catcher at 30-32 years of age. I also highly doubt he becomes a 20 20 guy. Ivan Rodriguez was this type of catcher at age 19. That isn't really comparable. By the time a catcher is 30-32 he is pretty much done from all the damage to the knees. Ivan Rodrigues is an exception to that rule. I would definately not compare Miguel Olivo to him. I don't think Olivo would want you comparing him to Ivan Rodriguez. It is not a fair comparison. That said I love Olivo and wish we didn't have to give him up. If thats what it takes then that is what it takes. We can get another part time catcher. I am not worried about that at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 It's not whining to say we overpaid. It's up to Freddie to shut up those concerned about the trade. If he pulls a Clemens everybody's gonna love him and KW. Catcher is an important position. It's OK for fans to be concerned about giving away a guy who has a gun for an arm and has done a pretty good job at the plate in his ABs this year. I'm sure Seattle is pretty happy they have a catcher for the next 10 years. If we can get a good year out of FG and re-sign him, then it'll look good. Nobody's whining, they are pointing out a problem. We didn't just give away minor leaguers, we gave away a catcher with a gun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sox-r-us Posted June 29, 2004 Author Share Posted June 29, 2004 Olivo is young talent that is MLB ready. He was doing very well for us. Notrhing says he couldn't continue to mature and become one of the better young catchers in the league. I would bet that 5-7 years down the road, Olivo turns into a stud catcher that you can build a team around(ala Ivan Rodriguez). I think he could potentially be a 20-20 threat in the long run. Chad Bradford was dealt for Miguel Olivo. This is true. However, we also gave Seattle Jeremy Reed(our #1 prospect) and Michael Morse, a solid player. Seattle also got John Halama and Carlos Guillen for RJ. Guillen is only one of the best SS's in the league right now(albeit with the Tigers). It is not Bradford for RJ. It is nothing close to Bradford for RJ. Looking at the main cogs of deals is fine and dandy...when you realize what the main cog of the deal was. It was NOT Olivo for Garcia...Seattle would laugh in our face if that was the deal. It was Olivo and Reed, with a fringe prospect in Morse, for Garcia and Davis. I know I was not sad because Olivo did not talk to the media. I was sad because Olivo is a hell of a player, and he takes nothing for granted. He busts his ass 100% of the time, and if he can help it, he busts ass some more after that. He is a fun-loving guy, and as a fan, you can see that in him. It is hard as f*** to lose Olivo. witesoxfan I will take this challenge....no way Olivo becomes someone you build a team around...no way.....if anything, now playing in Seattle his batting #s are going to get worse Let's see who gets the "I told you so".....for my part, I will stick around this board to see how this plays out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 witesoxfan I will take this challenge....no way Olivo becomes someone you build a team around...no way.....if anything, now playing in Seattle his batting #s are going to get worse Let's see who gets the "I told you so".....for my part, I will stick around this board to see how this plays out OK, I was kind of talking out of aggression right there...maybe build a team around is too much. But I think he will be a damn fine player. And I do think he could be a 20-20 type player when it's all said and done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 There is no justification for dealing Olivo, so no, I won't quit complaining about the trade. We had Colon last season, what's the difference between having him last year and now Garcia this year? Someone please explain. And we didn't have to give up two young studs for Colon either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 And we didn't have to give up two young studs for Colon either. You're right...we gave up 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 You're right...we gave up 3 We fleeced NY and Expos on the Bart deal...Osuna, Liefer and Biddle... Now we've dealt Big MO, Reed and Morse...Hmmm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 We fleeced NY and Expos on the Bart deal...Osuna, Liefer and Biddle... Now we've dealt Big MO, Reed and Morse...Hmmm. Lol, yeah I know I think we paid too much. And I think I have made it clear, I do not care about Reed right now, I do not care about Morse...it is losing Olivo that bugs the s*** out of me. It is for a stud though. Garcia is the best available pitcher, and if he can win us a good amount of ball games and be a stud for us, we are all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aboz56 Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 Lol, yeah I know I think we paid too much. And I think I have made it clear, I do not care about Reed right now, I do not care about Morse...it is losing Olivo that bugs the s*** out of me. It is for a stud though. Garcia is the best available pitcher, and if he can win us a good amount of ball games and be a stud for us, we are all good. So explain to me, if you can, how this is any different than having Bart last year? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 29, 2004 Share Posted June 29, 2004 So explain to me, if you can, how this is any different than having Bart last year? It's not any different from our standpoint. In fact, IIRC, Bartolo and Freddy are similar pitchers. The difference in price is this...Seattle does NOT have to get rid of Freddy. They can keep him, offer him arb, let him go, and get two draft picks for him. Or they can send him to NY(who wants him badly), or they can send him to LA(who wants him badly), and get just what they need. Montreal, on the other hand, NEEDED to get rid of Bartolo Colon. They had to cut roughly $8-10 mill off their payroll, and coincidentally, Bartolo Colon made $8.5 mill. When you have that kind of situation put in front of you, it will be hard as hell to get much of anything for a guy, knowing you HAVE to get rid of him(unless it is like Pedro or Vlad or Pujols...then teams will be lining up to get him). Also, there was not mutual interest from several teams. Boston wanted him, Atlanta wanted him(but then got Ortiz instead who only went on to win 21 games for them), and very few others did. Essentially, it was us against Boston, and NY helped us get Bartolo over here to keep Boston from getting him. When you have a team helping you like New York was helping us, it is a lot easier and costs a lot less. We overpaid for Freddy...but at full price, it would not cost much less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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