I want to win it with this team

[Controlled Chaos]

I wanted the Garcia trade, I have wanted it all year and we signed him. I like the Everett trade too...he was here before and is kind of part of the team already.

 

What I don't want is all these new players everyone is talking about...

 

Randy Johnson pitching, Hillenbrand at third, Finley in Center, Alomar at second, NoMah at short, Guardado in BP, Kendall behind the dish, Beltran in the outfield, Russ Ortiz etc etc etc...I mean I don't want to replace the whole team....I have rooted for this team up and down all year....and this is the team I want to win it. If we don't then we don't, but at least we have our identity. Not to mention throwing a bunch of new players together rarely works in such short time. Our guys will come around.

 

I would like to address catcher cause we lost our starter, but not with a rent a player. I want a guy signed or one we can sign for a while so he will feel some team unity and the team will bond with him knowing he'll be here.

 

I just think it's getting kinda ridiculous with people wanting to dump our players for the hottest guys out there. World Series teams have players on them that aren't batting .300. They pull together as a team...

[traydragen]

Chaos I agree with everything you said about identity, kinda an example of that is the Olivo trade, I think a lot of people here were kinda hurt by that b/c it was like he was one of our kids or something. Granted he did start in the A's system, he was with the White Sox for the greater part of his career and he was one of the best clubhouse guys we have. As far as being able to win it this year, I think you hit on some keys that we need for this team to win this year, I think #1 being this team turning it around in the second half and playing like we know they can #2 being the cather position b/c although sandy is a good catcher, he can not go out there the rest of the half and do an adequate job, #3 it is a "MUST" that we get some help in the pen, Shingo and Marte are the only decent guys we have going now. so maybe that should be at number 2, but I think the big key is for this team to start playing like we are a playoff team, wait a world series team..

[The Beast]

Guys-

 

We all want to win with this team. Problem is, I don't see Reinsdorf wanting to add any more onto the payroll with long term deals. I can see short term deals like Colon and Garcia. Yeah, you could deal Ordonez, but what does that leave you with? Gload in right. :puke Everett can't match his defense or (when healthy) his hitting stats.

 

So I forsee this. Pirates always are up for dealing at the trade deadline, then they will offer up Kendall and see if they have any biters. Sox try to ship Ordonez or Loaiza out and get a combonation of SP's and C's for Loaiza and Ordonez. They shall reel in the White Sox, as this will solidify our catching position for a long time, and also try to give us a leadoff hitter. (Hey, he gets on base.)

[ZoomSlowik]

Guys-

 

We all want to win with this team. Problem is, I don't see Reinsdorf wanting to add any more onto the payroll with long term deals. I can see short term deals like Colon and Garcia. Yeah, you could deal Ordonez, but what does that leave you with? Gload in right.  :puke Everett can't match his defense or (when healthy) his hitting stats.

 

So I forsee this. Pirates always are up for dealing at the trade deadline, then they will offer up Kendall and see if they have any biters. Sox try to ship Ordonez or Loaiza out and get a combonation of SP's and C's for Loaiza and Ordonez. They shall reel in the White Sox, as this will solidify our catching position for a long time, and also try to give us a leadoff hitter. (Hey, he gets on base.)

I highly doubt Ordonez will go anywhere. The trade you propose is pretty ludicrous. I would assume by starting pitcher you mean Benson? Why would they deal those two guys for two free agents at the end of the year when they aren't going anywhere? They can actually get decent prospects for Benson, and while they are desperate to lose Kendall's salary, the want to get something for him. Plus I HIGHLY doubt Ordonez is going anywhere. He's still due a bunch of money for the rest of the year, he's had a knee surgery this year and apparently tweaked it yesterday, it doesn't seem like he is ready to play the field yet, and he isn't hitting that well since he came back. All of those thing drop his potential trade value. And why would we deal our #3 hitter when our O has been struggling recently?

[The Beast]

I highly doubt Ordonez will go anywhere. The trade you propose is pretty ludicrous. I would assume by starting pitcher you mean Benson? Why would they deal those two guys for two free agents at the end of the year when they aren't going anywhere? They can actually get decent prospects for Benson, and while they are desperate to lose Kendall's salary, the want to get something for him. Plus I HIGHLY doubt Ordonez is going anywhere. He's still due a bunch of money for the rest of the year, he's had a knee surgery this year and apparently tweaked it yesterday, it doesn't seem like he is ready to play the field yet, and he isn't hitting that well since he came back. All of those thing drop his potential trade value. And why would we deal our #3 hitter when our O has been struggling recently?

Look buddy, I know what you mean, but I also am just saying that this could be a possibility within the organization. I didn't mean Kris Benson, I think with his arm problems, I would never want him. Our offense isn't struggling that bad, man, we got 4 runs last night, it was the pitching that lost us last time. I was really just throwing some names out there. The Pirates would sign Ordonez long term because they would know he means big bucks for advertising in THEIR city.

[DaSoxDaSoxDaaaaaaaBears]

KW has to sit down with Maggs and crunch some numbers, and if he finds out hes not gonna resign you gotta trade him. We cant let him walk at the end of the year for nothing. Also, if you threw loiaza in the mix with him you can get qa good package of players. As far as the Pirates go we could probably get both players, especially Kendall for a few prospects or young players. Look at last year what they did with Aramis Ramirez and I wanna say Lofton with the Cubs. Look how good that turned out and Im pretty sure the Cubs didnt give up much.

[ZoomSlowik]

Look buddy, I know what you mean, but I also am just saying that this could  be a possibility within the organization. I didn't mean Kris Benson, I think with his arm problems, I would never want him. Our offense isn't struggling that bad, man, we got 4 runs last night, it was the pitching that lost us last time. I was really just throwing some names out there. The Pirates would sign Ordonez long term because they would know he means big bucks for advertising in THEIR city.

We played in a great hitters park the last two games against two terrible pitchers. 4 runs last night isn't all that impressive. Besides, those are two games in a month long crapathon. The Pirates won't sign ANYBODY long term. They traded Aramis because he was due to make 6 mil. They let Giles go while he was still cheap. There is no way they will sign anyone for what Maggs is making. Besides that, Maggs doesn't have any name appeal. Outside of Chicago very few fans consider him to be a star. As for Loaiza, he has virtually no value right now. Why would anyone want a guy whose contract expires at the end of the season and has an ERA approaching 5? At a time when we are trying to make a run for the playoffs, I find it doubtful that we would deal our best player. The only way I would do that is if it would bring us RJ(not likely that they would really want him), or the Dodgers for Perez and/or Mota with prospects. Otherwise I would rather keep him for the rest of the year, and if he walks he walks. Then we get the picks and suddenly have a ton of money to spend in the offseason. Then we would have the chance to sign guys like Pavano, Clement, or Glaus. If Maggs stays, then we have our #3 hitter and RF. Either way works, but if we deal Maggs we don't get the picks and then get stuck with someone's salary, which would seriously hurt our chances for offseason impact moves.

[DaSoxDaSoxDaaaaaaaBears]

Well if the pirates are gonna dump salary if we wanna win this year we should go after kendall because they might want to dump his.

[EvilJester99]

Hell I was just reading on prosportsdaily.com that Arizona is asking for Posada in exchange for Randy Johnson. That's a pretty steep price me thinks. I would seriously doubt the Sox will end up with Randy. The Sox maybe should be looking at Glavine like it was stated a while back. I also wonder what it would take to get Roy Halliday... I know he is hurt right now but he will get better and is one hella pitcher. Just a thought.

[Texsox]

IMHO this is the best Sox team since the strike. I wish Frank was healthy, but he may be back for the stretch run. I like the young guys in their spots, veterans in others, and some nice role players in others.

 

I like Oz managing not his early over managing.

 

If we do not pull any more trades, I will still be happy. I am expecting one more, small tremmer, not an earthquake trade.

[ZoomSlowik]

Hell I was just reading on prosportsdaily.com that Arizona is asking for Posada in exchange for Randy Johnson. That's a pretty steep price me thinks. I would seriously doubt the Sox will end up with Randy. The Sox maybe should be looking at Glavine like it was stated a while back. I also wonder what it would take to get Roy Halliday... I know he is hurt right now but he will get better and is one hella pitcher. Just a thought.

Halladay is resting his shoulder for 4-6 weeks because of soreness, so that doesn't seem likely. Also not so sure about Glavine, that division is as mediocre as ours so the Mets will probably still be in it around the deadline. I still like the Pavano idea, but I don't know what we'd have to give up or if he will even be available.

[JUGGERNAUT]

What is it you want to win? The division? Ok, that's doable.

The AL Championship? I doubt it. I think in the end the NYY will pay whatever price

AZ asks to get Randy Johnson. A rotation of Johnson, Brown, Vasquez, & Mussina

will make the NY All-Stars practically unbeatable.

 

The World Series? Be honest now. Do you really think the White Sox can beat

the Cards in the World Series? Keep in mind they would have to play 3 games in STL

& they are a team very dependant on the DH in the lineup.

 

If RJ joins the NYY$'s me thinks all bets are off.

[Controlled Chaos]

What is it you want to win?  The division?  Ok, that's doable.

The AL Championship?  I doubt it.  I think in the end the NYY will pay whatever price

AZ asks to get Randy Johnson. A rotation of Johnson, Brown, Vasquez, & Mussina

will make the NY All-Stars practically unbeatable.

 

The World Series?  Be honest now.  Do you really think the White Sox can beat

the Cards in the World Series?  Keep in mind they would have to play 3 games in STL

& they are a team very dependant on the DH in the lineup.

 

If RJ joins the NYY$'s me thinks all bets are off.

I want to win it all. When our bats are on....there isn't a team in the league I wouldn't battle with. We have three starters that can be very dominant. The yankees pitching isn't as solid as it once was. I'm not afraid of Brown Vasquez or Mussina....and last time I loooked Randy isn't as dominating as he used to be.

 

The cardinals??? They'll come down to earth...and yeah it will be a struggle without the DH, but we can do it if our guys are hitting on all cylinders. Once in anything can happen.

 

Hey if the sox get there, it should be a battle. It just depends on what team shows up.

[greasywheels121]

I'm glad that other people feel this way; I mentioned that in another thread, and I got bashed a little bit for saying so.

[witesoxfan]

We have three starters that can be very dominant.

I have to totally disagree with this comment. Garcia and Buehrle can be shutdown type pitchers when they are pitching very, very well. But Loaiza can't be dominant...not without his low-to-mid 90s fastball. This 86-88 s*** he is throwing up there is BP.

 

 

Unless of course you were talking about Garland...and when he has his best stuff and best control and isn't sticking his thumb up his ass out there, he is a solid pitcher too.

[Controlled Chaos]

I have to totally disagree with this comment.  Garcia and Buehrle can be shutdown type pitchers when they are pitching very, very well.  But Loaiza can't be dominant...not without his low-to-mid 90s fastball.  This 86-88 s*** he is throwing up there is BP. 

 

 

Unless of course you were talking about Garland...and when he has his best stuff and best control and isn't sticking his thumb up his ass out there, he is a solid pitcher too.

Apr18 - 9IP - 2 hits - 0 runs

Apr23 - 7IP - 8 hits - 2 runs

May15 - 8IP - 6 hits - 3 runs

May26th - 8IP - 2hits - 0 runs

Jun17th - 8ip - 5hits - 1 run

He CAN be dominate when his confidence his there. I'm not saying he always is...but he can do it.

 

In 16 starts this year Loaiza has given up more than 5 runs only 3 times. Sox should score 5 runs a game.

[qwerty]

I want to win it all.  When our bats are on....there isn't a team in the league I wouldn't battle with.  We have three starters that can be very dominant.  The yankees pitching isn't as solid as it once was.  I'm not afraid of Brown Vasquez or Mussina....and last time I loooked Randy isn't as dominating as he used to be.

Brown shut us down once, Vaquez dominated us twice, and randy johnson's current era is better than his career. But there is no need to worry about that whatsoever right?

[SuperSteve]

Guys-

 

We all want to win with this team. Problem is, I don't see Reinsdorf wanting to add any more onto the payroll with long term deals. I can see short term deals like Colon and Garcia. Yeah, you could deal Ordonez, but what does that leave you with? Gload in right.  :puke Everett can't match his defense or (when healthy) his hitting stats.

 

So I forsee this. Pirates always are up for dealing at the trade deadline, then they will offer up Kendall and see if they have any biters. Sox try to ship Ordonez or Loaiza out and get a combonation of SP's and C's for Loaiza and Ordonez. They shall reel in the White Sox, as this will solidify our catching position for a long time, and also try to give us a leadoff hitter. (Hey, he gets on base.)

Deal Maggs, and be left with Gload in RF? Are you kidding. We would get some studs back for Maggs, not a bag of balls.

[IlliniKrush]

Apr18 - 9IP - 2 hits - 0 runs

Apr23 - 7IP - 8 hits - 2 runs

May15 - 8IP - 6 hits - 3 runs

May26th - 8IP - 2hits - 0 runs

Jun17th - 8ip - 5hits - 1 run

He CAN be dominate when his confidence his there.  I'm not saying he always is...but he can do it.

 

In 16 starts this year Loaiza has given up more than 5 runs only 3 times.  Sox should score 5 runs a game.

5 runs in the playoffs against good pitchers? That's very, very questionable.

[witesoxfan]

Apr18 - 9IP - 2 hits - 0 runs

Apr23 - 7IP - 8 hits - 2 runs

May15 - 8IP - 6 hits - 3 runs

May26th - 8IP - 2hits - 0 runs

Jun17th - 8ip - 5hits - 1 run

He CAN be dominate when his confidence his there.  I'm not saying he always is...but he can do it.

 

In 16 starts this year Loaiza has given up more than 5 runs only 3 times.  Sox should score 5 runs a game.

They'll be lucky to score 3 runs in the postseason.

 

He has had some good outing...I'm not at all saying he hasn't. I'm saying that without his 92-94 MPH fastball, he can't be dominant. He is pre-2003 Esteban right now.

 

With Freddy's fastball, slider, and change, he can be a very dominant pitcher, especially when he is rolling.

When Mark is locating well, working quickly, and has his cutter and change working, he can keep hitters so far off balance that he is dominant.

 

Right now, Esteban does not have that ability. His offspeed pitch is not good enough to where he can keep hitters off-balance with just his fastball and change.

 

If we started the postseason now, I would have very little confidence with Esteban going in game 3, which, IMO, is the biggest game of the ALDS.

 

 

That being said...I don't have an answer as to who we can get. just suggestions. We will not get RJ...his pricetag is apparently too expensive, and he would bring in too much baggage(both should be a non-issue at this point...giving up what we did for Garcia should mean that we will go for it and will get what we need to at all costs). Pavano could be if the Marlins were to fall out of it. Those two are about the only pitchers that could be available that would be a definite upgrade over Esteban. After that, you have to consider guys that could be...Tony Armas, Kris Benson, guys like that.

[Rowand44]

They'll be lucky to score 3 runs in the postseason.

 

He has had some good outing...I'm not at all saying he hasn't.  I'm saying that without his 92-94 MPH fastball, he can't be dominant.  He is pre-2003 Esteban right now. 

 

With Freddy's fastball, slider, and change, he can be a very dominant pitcher, especially when he is rolling.

When Mark is locating well, working quickly, and has his cutter and change working, he can keep hitters so far off balance that he is dominant.

 

Right now, Esteban does not have that ability.  His offspeed pitch is not good enough to where he can keep hitters off-balance with just his fastball and change.

 

If we started the postseason now, I would have very little confidence with Esteban going in game 3, which, IMO, is the biggest game of the ALDS.

 

 

That being said...I don't have an answer as to who we can get. just suggestions.  We will not get RJ...his pricetag is apparently too expensive, and he would bring in too much baggage(both should be a non-issue at this point...giving up what we did for Garcia should mean that we will go for it and will get what we need to at all costs).  Pavano could be if the Marlins were to fall out of it.  Those two are about the only pitchers that could be available that would be a definite upgrade over Esteban.  After that, you have to consider guys that could be...Tony Armas, Kris Benson, guys like that.

I agree with you, I'm perfectly fine throwing Garcia and Buehrle out there in games 1 and 2 if we get to the playoffs, however I have no confidence in either Garland or Loaiza to do a good job in a game 3 type of situation. I hope kenny is looking at Benson, it's been said that they found a flaw in his mechanics and since then his era is around 2.5 he'd be a nice arm to have, imo. Also in the playoffs unless we're facing the rangers it is very, very doubtful the sox put up 5 runs.

[NUKE_CLEVELAND]

I wanted the Garcia trade, I have wanted it all year and we signed him.  I like the Everett trade too...he was here before and is kind of part of the team already.

 

What I don't want is all these new players everyone is talking about...

 

Randy Johnson pitching, Hillenbrand at third, Finley in Center, Alomar at second, NoMah at short, Guardado in BP, Kendall behind the dish, Beltran in the outfield, Russ Ortiz etc etc etc...I mean I don't want to replace the whole team....I have rooted for this team up and down all year....and this is the team I want to win it.  If we don't then we don't, but at least we have our identity.  Not to mention throwing a bunch of new players together rarely works in such short time.  Our guys will come around. 

 

I would like to address catcher cause we lost our starter, but not with a rent a player.  I want a guy signed or one we can sign for a while so he will feel some team unity and the team will bond with him knowing he'll be here.

 

I just think it's getting kinda ridiculous with people wanting to dump our players for the hottest guys out there.  World Series teams have players on them that aren't batting .300.  They pull together as a team...

This team is capable of winning it all but we need to pull it all together. We cant have a couple of guys getting hot and a couple more ice cold. We need everybody to consistently play up to their potential and we'll go far.

[Wedge]

Everybody says all the other team's pitchers jump to a new level in the playoffs.

 

Maybe ours will?

[DABearSoX]

I wanted the Garcia trade, I have wanted it all year and we signed him.  I like the Everett trade too...he was here before and is kind of part of the team already.

 

What I don't want is all these new players everyone is talking about...

 

Randy Johnson pitching, Hillenbrand at third, Finley in Center, Alomar at second, NoMah at short, Guardado in BP, Kendall behind the dish, Beltran in the outfield, Russ Ortiz etc etc etc...I mean I don't want to replace the whole team....I have rooted for this team up and down all year....and this is the team I want to win it.  If we don't then we don't, but at least we have our identity.  Not to mention throwing a bunch of new players together rarely works in such short time.  Our guys will come around. 

 

I would like to address catcher cause we lost our starter, but not with a rent a player.  I want a guy signed or one we can sign for a while so he will feel some team unity and the team will bond with him knowing he'll be here.

 

I just think it's getting kinda ridiculous with people wanting to dump our players for the hottest guys out there.  World Series teams have players on them that aren't batting .300.  They pull together as a team...

AMEN BROTHA.......you cant just reconstruct a team..... personalities have to gel and you have to feel comfortable with one another.....you go out replacing everyone then the team unity begins to lack

[ZoomSlowik]

Brown shut us down once, Vaquez dominated us twice, and randy johnson's current era is better than his career. But there is no need to worry about that whatsoever right?

Actually, we didn't face Brown this year(at least according to ESPN, who I normally trust on statistical matters). He had an ERA of 4.13(good but not stellar) before getting hurt in early June and hasn't pitched since, and Mussina has an ERA of 5.20 on the year. That makes me think there are guys we should be much more worried about. Even Vasquez's ERA is now over 4. They desperately need another starter.