Church thoughts

[sox4lifeinPA]

Anyone can comment, but I'm looking for positive, constructive comments. I'm not looking for a fight, I'm looking for some thoughts. I have a real issue with the way churches are run, and desire to see an early church format and renewal of new testament living. here goes: (caveat emptor: these aren't my words, but I agree to most of thoughts written)

 

REASONS TO (perhaps) RETHINK YOUR church SITUATION:

 

If you judge your community of faith primarily by the preaching and the music on Sunday morning, you might want to rethink the way you're doing church.(1 Corinthians 1-3, esp. 1:17, 2:3-5, 3:4-15, and 4:6-7)

 

If the whole of your involvement is from 10 to 12 on Sundays, you might want to rethink the way you're doing church. (Acts 2:42-47 and4:33-35)

 

If you are a member (or whatever you call it at your particular faith community) of your church and you've never actually had a real conversation with the primary ("senior") pastor, you might want to rethink the way you're doing church.(see above)

 

If the teaching pastor of your church has become an across-the-nation celebrity, be careful. That's all I'm going to say about that one. Be careful. Oh, and pray for him. His job (and his responsibility) will get tougher as he gets more famous and in-demand. (James 3:1, Matthew 23)

 

If any of your pastors drive $60,000 cars (an admittedly ambiguous, but certainly not unfair figure), you might want to rethink the way you're doing church. (1 Timothy 6:3-21, 1 John 3:16-18, 1 Thessalonians 2:6-9, Luke 6:20-24)

 

If you’ve known your pastor for a significant period of time (an intentionally ambiguous phrasing) and you’ve never heard him admit that he is wrong or was ever wrong, you might want to rethink the way you’re doing church.

 

If you find that you're consistently criticizing your church and/or its leadership, but you never lovingly share those frustrations with your pastors, you might want to rethink the way you're doing church. (Acts 2:42, 1 Timothy 4:1-6, 2 Timothy 2:23-26 and 4:2-5, Titus 2 and 3, Ephesians 4:25-32 and 5:21, Matthew 5:23-25)

 

If you find that you're consistently criticizing your church and/or its leadership, and you have lovingly shared those frustrations with your pastors, but nothing has changed and you're still frustrated, what are you doing there in the first place? And don't give me that "God has called me to this church to help get it straight" business. That's a crock, and you are part of the problem, not part of the solution. You're probably driving your pastor crazy. You're probably in sin. If you want to change a church, pastor it. Or at least, pray for it. Serve it. Love it. But don't pester it. (same passages as above, plus Psalm 133, Colossians 2:1-5, 1 Corinthians 1:10-13, 1 Corinthians 12, Ephesians 4)

 

If none of your closest friends are part of your church, you might want to rethink the way you're doing church.(same passages as above)

 

If you don't trust your pastor(s), or if you are always suspicious of their actions and/or words, please rethink the way you are doing church.(same passages as the last three, not to mention Romans 13)

 

If your pastor consistently gives cheap tips (or, God forbid, plan-of-salvation tracts instead of tips) to waiters and waitresses, you might want to rethink the way you’re doing church. By the same token, if your pastor is always trying to get a cheap deal, you might want to rethink. There’s a difference between stewardship and stingy-ness. (1 Timothy 6, Jeremiah 22:13-14, Isaiah 58:1-7)

 

If you don't consistently, sacrificially give money to your church, you might want to rethink the way you're doing church. (Matthew 6, 2 Corinthians 8)

 

If your church has a congregation-wide vote to make all of its major decisions, you might want to rethink the way you're doing church.

 

If your pastor’s teaching/living never confuses or frustrates you, you might want to rethink the way you’re doing church.(John 6, Luke 6:22-26)

 

If your church is so big that you begin to see the Acts 2 model as impossible, impractical, or irrelevant, you might want to rethink the way you’re doing church.

[kapkomet]

Where did you get this?

 

Pretty amazing, this is exactly what our preacher has been preaching on for about 3 or 4 weeks now. This at a Church of Christ. Alex (PA), think about that one... a TEXAS Church of Christ addressing these very things... WHOA...

Edited October 23, 2004 by kapkomet

[sox4lifeinPA]

Where did you get this?

 

Pretty amazing, this is exactly what our preacher has been preaching on for about 3 or 4 weeks now.  This at a Church of Christ.  Alex (PA), think about that one... a TEXAS Church of Christ addressing these very things... WHOA...

it's from one of my very good friends...a pastor in a baptist associated (mildly) independent church in College Station, Texas... yeah...Jesusland, Texas.

 

I have a distinct feeling that a growing number of people in my generation will make a switch from 20th Century Churches...which have at most 25% biblical basis...to 21st Century new testament churches. I have talked to many people who desire so much more out of this thing we call "church".

 

you can go to AA meetings and get better fellowship...and that's a compliment to AA and a knock on church. "Christians" buy into world culture so much more than I understand.

 

 

edit: by the way, rock on for your church digging into this stuff. it's a reality and praise God he's showing us our errors.

[kapkomet]

Our pastor stands up there and says "I'm a screwup" a lot.

 

And he means it.

 

He wants us to learn from his lessons and how God blesses us, even though we screw up every single day of our lives.

 

Christianity - not church - not the religion - the FAITH - the new testament - is what is most important.

 

At the heart of it all, church, or at least the man made portion of it, sucks.

[sox4lifeinPA]

Our pastor stands up there and says "I'm a screwup" a lot. 

 

And he means it.

 

He wants us to learn from his lessons and how God blesses us, even though we screw up every single day of our lives.

 

Christianity - not church - not the religion - the FAITH - the new testament - is what is most important.

 

At the heart of it all, church, or at least the man made portion of it, sucks.

hell yeah....

 

 

it's not about the music, the pastor and his sermon, or the building...lord knows it's not about the building... (if you think church is has anything to do with where you worship and how nice the place looks... lord help you)

 

Church is about our complete worshipping of God. end of story.

[soxchick]

I have been going to church all my life. I even went to a Private Christian School K-12. I enjoy going to my church it is a Protestant Reformed Church. But you can't rely on church to save you. Our church is going through a major growth spurt and many members are concerned with the mega church stigma. Our minister is pretty grounded, He is a recovering alcoholic but that is what makes him so caring. It has been his mission to not just get people to go to church but to have them be active faithful members.

 

We soon find it all but impossibe to live the Christian life with our own strength and goodness. It is through God's strength that we know courage, and through his power that we know courage, and through his power that we know goodness, When we realize this, surrender becomes our priority, In seeking to unite our will with God's more fully, we don't want a fixed blissful union with him, one that is filled with passivity. Surrendering to him means growth and progress. It is the freedom of moving forward with and through him, so that each of our relationships and all of our work, worship, suffering, and play reflect what he wants of us.

-Judith C. Lechman

[sox4lifeinPA]

. But you can't rely on church to save you.

"Religion cannot save, service cannot save, no even scripture cannot save our soul from death... so I will boast in only Jesus Christ, to this world I have been crucified...so I will boast in only Jesus Christ." -Ross King

 

 

I agree with you in the sense that one cannot lean solely on the structure of the church to save you from eternal death or eternal fertilization of the earth if you're FlasoxxJim. What I do believe is that if we effectively minister to each other and take care of one another's needs, the depth of which people struggle with sin will be deminished. Paul talks of a life without sin, but I dont know about you I struggle constantly with things that I shouldn't have to. Church is about coming together and worshipping God corporately. Church is about living out that worship through sacrifice and taking care of your brother.

1 John 3

17If anyone has material possessions and sees his brother in need but has no pity on him, how can the love of God be in him?

I think there are going to be alot of rich people surprised about their fate when they die.

 

Jesus is the only thing we need...He just gave us the gift of the Spirit and then gave us community to live out that spirit.

 

Galatians 6:14

May I never boast except in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through which[ 6:14 Or whom] the world has been crucified to me, and I to the world.

[Rex Kickass]

I turned my back on the Catholic Church because I felt it turned its back on me. I have visited several churches since but haven't found one to settle with. I recall one very powerful sermon at a Lutheran service in Michigan back in 2001. He talked about why its so important to pray for everyone, not just the ones you support. Something that stuck with me. And its something I've done nearly every day since.

[FlaSoxxJim]

I agree with you in the sense that one cannot lean solely on the structure of the church to save you from eternal death or eternal fertilization of the earth if you're FlasoxxJim...

It's far from eternal, from an trophic/energetic perspective. If you can convince somebody to bury you fresh without embalming, you certainly would provide caloric nutrition to an array of organisms for many months. The most refractory biomass would be slowly broken down for several years, and maybe a microflora could subsist on the marrow in your long bones for some time after that. (Now something massive like a whale carcass.... there are unique chemosynthetic communities being supported by them 50 years after they die and fall to the abyssal plain. Pretty dang cool.

 

Now, from an atomic perspective, yeah it is about as eternal as the physical universe can muster (14 billion years give or take according to the latest research - eternal enough by human standards). Some stars sneezed, and here we are (and there we go, and so on and so forth) - that's the cliffnotes version of it.

[Texsox]

hell yeah....

 

 

it's not about the music, the pastor and his sermon, or the building...lord knows it's not about the building... (if you think church is has anything to do with where you worship and how nice the place looks... lord help you)

 

Church is about our complete worshipping of God. end of story.

Not to pick a fight, but to offer another point of view regarding buildings and other outward appearances.

 

Father Michael Sparrow and I, when he was at Bellermine Jesuit Retreat House in Barrington (awesome silent retreats for Catholics) and I discussed body position in prayer. Out of that conversation came a big change in how I view the physical in my spiritual life.

 

I believe one needs to be in a comfortable position when praying. Clearing to me is that distractions, quieting the mind, body, and soul is important. Some people are able to enter a prayfull state anywhere and I envy them. I have a couple quiet corners of the house that work for me. I enjoy the moments on campouts with my Scouts, before anyone else wakes up, to sit and quietly contemplate that morning's service. At those times I feel closer to God.

 

I also know I love old Churches and stained glass. Perhaps it is rooted in my childhood, perhaps it was rooted in a "modern" Church where I didn't feel a part of the congregation. I love the traditions and Traditions of the Catholic Church ( hard core Catholics will understand the t and T). I love when traveling to seek out the 150 year old country Church that was hand built by early settlers.

 

If you agree that there is a meditative state of mind that is important to your spiritual life, you should also agree that certain sights, sounds, smells, and sites, will trigger that meditative response. Search those out.

 

The point I am rambling to is the building may make a difference. The music may make a difference. The greeter at the door may make a difference.

 

I believe God uses all these things and more to shepard his flock. Find a place you feel comfortable and grow in his blessings.

 

[/off pulpit]

[Texsox]

I turned my back on the Catholic Church because I felt it turned its back on me. I have visited several churches since but haven't found one to settle with. I recall one very powerful sermon at a Lutheran service in Michigan back in 2001. He talked about why its so important to pray for everyone, not just the ones you support. Something that stuck with me. And its something I've done nearly every day since.

Sadly, the Catholic Church probably did more than turn it's back on you. Have you tried Catholic Lite, the Episcopal Church. I've enjoyed a couple contacts I've had with the local congregation here. Many of the same traditions. I also have become very comfortable with the United Methodist.

[sox4lifeinPA]

Not to pick a fight, but to offer another point of view regarding buildings and other outward appearances.

 

Father Michael Sparrow and I, when he was at Bellermine Jesuit Retreat House in Barrington (awesome silent retreats for Catholics) and I discussed body position in prayer. Out of that conversation came a big change in how I view the physical in my spiritual life.

 

I believe one needs to be in a comfortable position when praying. Clearing to me is that distractions, quieting the mind, body, and soul is important. Some people are able to enter a prayfull state anywhere and I envy them. I have a couple quiet corners of the house that work for me. I enjoy the moments on campouts with my Scouts, before anyone else wakes up, to sit and quietly contemplate that morning's service. At those times I feel closer to God.

 

I also know I love old Churches and stained glass. Perhaps it is rooted in my childhood, perhaps it was rooted in a "modern" Church where I didn't feel a part of the congregation. I love the traditions and Traditions of the Catholic Church ( hard core Catholics will understand the t and T). I love when traveling to seek out the 150 year old country Church that was hand built by early settlers.

 

If you agree that there is a meditative state of mind that is important to your spiritual life, you should also agree that certain sights, sounds, smells, and sites, will trigger that meditative response. Search those out.

 

The point I am rambling to is the building may make a difference. The music may make a difference. The greeter at the door may make a difference.

 

I believe God uses all these things and more to shepard his flock. Find a place you feel comfortable and grow in his blessings.

 

[/off pulpit]

I agree with you to a point...

 

I'm just wary of any church that says, we need such and such for our church in order to be successful. I got to places where literally you could play a t-ball game inside the sanctuary, and stop at the coffee shop and book store on your way to the oversized gym. what I'm saying is that some churches make the building the primary focus, and I just don't believe that there's alot of bibilical precedent (new testament) for God requiring that focus.

 

Then again, I can relate to you that church can be about comfort and familiarity. I guess I just see that as a 20th century invention. I'm primarily speaking to the First Baptist Churches of Houston. 3 campuses live via satelite. that just doesn't seem to leave room for community or the Spirit of God.

 

 

I know you weren't picking a fight. I see your side, my friend.

[DBAHO]

When I was younger my family would go to church every Sunday. At the time I hated it, couldn't stand for sitting for an hour and hearing and old man blab on about stuff I didn't know too much about. At least there was Sunday School I guess.

 

Now we don't go to church much at all. At my old high school, we had weekly services and chapels which sort of filled the void of not going. But now that I'm at Uni, I'm starting to think about going back to Church a bit more now, although it's pretty hard since I work a lot on Sundays and don't get up very early when I don't. I will be definitely going to the Christmas service this year though.

[Texsox]

I agree with you to a point...

 

I'm just wary of any church that says, we need such and such for our church in order to be successful. I got to places where literally you could play a t-ball game inside the sanctuary, and stop at the coffee shop and book store on your way to the oversized gym. what I'm saying is that some churches make the building the primary focus, and I just don't believe that there's alot of bibilical precedent (new testament) for God requiring that focus.

 

Then again, I can relate to you that church can be about comfort and familiarity. I guess I just see that as a 20th century invention. I'm primarily speaking to the First Baptist Churches of Houston. 3 campuses live via satelite. that just doesn't seem to leave room for community or the Spirit of God.

 

 

I know you weren't picking a fight. I see your side, my friend.

I think we are both saying the same thing, but from a different angle. I would feel lost in that Church, while others may thrive on some anonimity. I know one lady who leaves a Church as soon as "the Pastor and three members know my name and invite me to be on a committee".

 

Some people love the Mega-Church environment, I find it hard to understand. I personally believe they may be trying to find salvation in the Thursday night building committee meeting. But their path is different than mine. One of my favorite Churches was Saint Mary of Freemont. I loved it from the first mass. I drove past 6 other Catholic Churches to attend but the then country Church without an AV department, without air conditioning, and a hand dug basement felt like home.

 

There is a powerful pull in my life with the United Methodist Church that sponsors my Scout Troop. I have many close friends in the congregation and they consider me a part of their Church Family, yet I rarely attend services there. When they honored me with the God and Service Award for my work with the youth of their Church, I was deeply moved.

[kapkomet]

Dallas is FULL of mega-churches. I can't complain about that, per se, because it got me back to going to church.

 

But, I remember many a time the preacher there talking about we have nothing but the best lights, sound, auditorium, church, etc, and wouldn't God want the best for His house?

 

I think the answer lies for what you use it for. It's called a seeker's church for a reason.

 

I always wanted more out of the sermons then the *snip* insert bible verse here and make it fit my sermon *snip* sort of view. In fact, I think that's borderline sacreligious because a verse taken out of context is very very dangerous. I found that one of the mega-churches did that all the time, and it made me mad because it meant that the clearer picture of what the verse was talking about got NO attention because it might have offended someone *Gasp*.

 

That addresses the mega-church question.

 

As far as Catholicism, I can never get a Catholic (HELP me here, please) explain to me why you have to have a man to confess your sins to when clearly in the New Testament you are supposed to confess to God himself through Jesus Christ. The whole principle of the Catholic religion never made sense to me. Thoughts?

[sox4lifeinPA]

As far as Catholicism, I can never get a Catholic (HELP me here, please) explain to me why you have to have a man to confess your sins to when clearly in the New Testament you are supposed to confess to God himself through Jesus Christ. The whole principle of the Catholic religion never made sense to me. Thoughts?

 

I don't necessarily know the biblical context or precedence for it, but to an extent I understand the confession of sin to another person. I think it's one step of faith to admit you're a sinner, but a bigger difference to admit it to a group. Think about AA, everyone that attends admits that they have a problem that is bigger than they are, and that they are powerless against it. The chose a group setting to help each other cope with the inability to handle sin....er, alcoholism.

 

In reality, AA meetings are more like new testament churches, than Fill in the blank mega church.

[Texsox]

This sacrament is rooted in the mission God gave to Christ in his capacity as the Son of man on earth to go and forgive sins (cf. Matt. 9:6). Thus, the crowds who witnessed this new power "glorified God, who had given such authority to men" (Matt. 9:8; note the plural "men"). After his resurrection, Jesus passed on his mission to forgive sins to his ministers, telling them, "As the Father has sent me, even so I send you. . . . Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained" (John 20:21–23).

Edited October 23, 2004 by Texsox

[sox4lifeinPA]

Perhaps there is an Old Testament teaching. I know that during Yom Kippur you pray for forgiveness between yourself and G-D, but you first must atone and seek forgiveness from any other person you may have sinned against.

The year of Jubilee is also a celebration where people forgave greivences and debts and set prisoners free, etc. I think Jesus' purpose, however, is to remove the barrier that judaism had put between God and the lay person.

[sox4lifeinPA]

Seperate thought, but I'll refrain from starting another thread....

 

 

 

My brother says to him it's vague when "

6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

 

what does that mean to you? ( I know what it means to me...)

 

by the way, here's the context:

 

John 14

 

 

Jesus Comforts His Disciples

 

1"Do not let your hearts be troubled. Trust in God[1] ; trust also in me. 2In my Father's house are many rooms; if it were not so, I would have told you. I am going there to prepare a place for you. 3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come back and take you to be with me that you also may be where I am. 4You know the way to the place where I am going."

 

Jesus the Way to the Father

 

5Thomas said to him, "Lord, we don't know where you are going, so how can we know the way?"

6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. 7If you really knew me, you would know[2] my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him."

8Philip said, "Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us."

9Jesus answered: "Don't you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, 'Show us the Father'? 10Don't you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you are not just my own. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work. 11Believe me when I say that I am in the Father and the Father is in me; or at least believe on the evidence of the miracles themselves. 12I tell you the truth, anyone who has faith in me will do what I have been doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father. 13And I will do whatever you ask in my name, so that the Son may bring glory to the Father. 14You may ask me for anything in my name, and I will do it.

[kapkomet]

QUOTE (Texsox @ Oct 23 2004, 02:03 PM)

Perhaps there is an Old Testament teaching. I know that during Yom Kippur you pray for forgiveness between yourself and G-D, but you first must atone and seek forgiveness from any other person you may have sinned against. 

 

 

The year of Jubilee is also a celebration where people forgave greivences and debts and set prisoners free, etc. I think Jesus' purpose, however, is to remove the barrier that judaism had put between God and the lay person.

 

Perhaps one should read the book of Hebrews, to whom these sorts of questions are addressed.

Edited October 23, 2004 by kapkomet

[Rex Kickass]

I remember in Theology class being told that the historical perspective for confession was mostly a social one. Much like having Jews keep kosher was more about public health than the actual ability to be closer to God.

 

On the other thing, Tex - I don't subscribe to any particular Christian religion anymore. I'm just looking for the place that feels right. Any church I attend HAS to be open and affirming. I don't want a church to condone my actions, but instead to accept who I am as valid. Something that not enough churches do.

[kapkomet]

On the other thing, Tex - I don't subscribe to any particular Christian religion anymore. I'm just looking for the place that feels right. Any church I attend HAS to be open and affirming. I don't want a church to condone my actions, but instead to accept who I am as valid. Something that not enough churches do.

[sox4lifeinPA]

I remember in Theology class being told that the historical perspective for confession was mostly a social one. Much like having Jews keep kosher was more about public health than the actual ability to be closer to God.

 

On the other thing, Tex - I don't subscribe to any particular Christian religion anymore. I'm just looking for the place that feels right. Any church I attend HAS to be open and affirming. I don't want a church to condone my actions, but instead to accept who I am as valid. Something that not enough churches do.

I'm not going to touch the Church and homosexual debate, the bible's clear enough.

 

 

From a psychological and physiological stand point, where does homosexuality come from? because I can accept that it's not a choice, but it has to come from somewhere... like being tall or being near sighted or having cerebral palsay.

 

but also isn't there a possibility for nurture to have affected the development of a child? like a child being timid because of an over-bearing mother or being anorexic because of the pressures society puts on us or being sexual molested.

 

I'm not looking for an arguement, but what I'm looking for is honest answers. I'm going to attempt to remove all forms of condescention from my thoughts, because I'm truly ignorant on this subject. if anyone has studies or research that I can look at, I'm very interested.

 

some things that I have heard are:

 

-some homosexuals have different sized brains and other physiological differences than heterosexuals.

 

-70-80% of lesbians were sexual abused as children

 

 

my thoughts on those things are:

 

1) the development of a fetus is extremely effected by what a woman does to her body. With the lack of personal responsibility so rampant in our culture, its no wonder children are born with more and more abnormalities, such as ADD, Autism, and (dare I say it) homosexuality.

 

2) with so many lesbians having negative sexual experiences at young ages, primarily with male friends and family members, it makes sense that some women take the path of highly sexualized relationships with men and others seem to take the path of experimentation and companionship with women

 

3) I guess I just don't know why homosexuality isn't categorized as any other learned or born-in deficiency. There's a clear design of animals that involves reproduction. Obviously pleasure from sex needs to be taken in account, but I can derive pleasure from a relationship with a chicken, if so desired.

 

4) If we offer civil unions to homosexuals, why do we shun relatives from relationships? If it's not about reproduction, and homosexuals conviently don't have teen pregnancy risks, why couldn't a brother have a vasectomy and then marry his sister?

 

 

I just thought I'd bring this up, since you're obviously talking about it in your post. please, enlighten me.

[Rex Kickass]

I'm not going to touch the Church and homosexual debate, the bible's clear enough.

 

but also isn't there a possibility for nurture to have affected the development of a child? like a child being timid because of an over-bearing mother or being anorexic because of the pressures society puts on us or being sexual molested.

 

I'm not looking for an arguement, but what I'm looking for is honest answers. I'm going to attempt to remove all forms of condescention from my thoughts, because I'm truly ignorant on this subject. if anyone has studies or research that I can look at, I'm very interested.

 

some things that I have heard are:

 

-some homosexuals have different sized brains and other physiological differences than heterosexuals.

 

-70-80% of lesbians were sexual abused as children

 

 

my thoughts on those things are:

 

1) the development of a fetus is extremely effected by what a woman does to her body. With the lack of personal responsibility so rampant in our culture, its no wonder children are born with more and more abnormalities, such as ADD, Autism, and (dare I say it) homosexuality.

 

2) with so many lesbians having negative sexual experiences at young ages, primarily with male friends and family members, it makes sense that some women take the path of highly sexualized relationships with men and others seem to take the path of experimentation and companionship with women

 

3) I guess I just don't know why homosexuality isn't categorized as any other learned or born-in deficiency. There's a clear design of animals that involves reproduction. Obviously pleasure from sex needs to be taken in account, but I can derive pleasure from a relationship with a chicken, if so desired.

 

4) If we offer civil unions to homosexuals, why do we shun relatives from relationships? If it's not about reproduction, and homosexuals conviently don't have teen pregnancy risks, why couldn't a brother have a vasectomy and then marry his sister?

 

 

I just thought I'd bring this up, since you're obviously talking about it in your post. please, enlighten me.

I would argue that the Bible isn't so clear on it. What I've read has said that Paul may be referring to the sex slave trade and that the meaning of what he said isn't as clear as people might say. I also know that the Bible is divine writing through the hands of humankind. Therefore, I am willing to accept that every word may not be true. For example, the notion of a trinity was not included in the Bible until the late Fifth Century. But I'm not getting into a biblical argument. I'm not qualified.

 

As to your points about homosexuality:

 

1. I don't know what causes homosexuality. I just know that it exists. I know that my bisexuality was not something I chose. It's just something that is. As to what caused it is immaterial to me.

 

2. I'm not a lesbian, I couldn't hope to answer that.

 

3. I don't quite follow here. If it is a deficiency of some sort, whats the big deal? It is not a (dys)functional deficiency. There is something different about gay people and straight people, yes. They are attracted to different things. They are "wired" differently. So what?

 

4. On gay marriage: It seems that some people view rights as a zero sum game. It isn't. Not to get on a rant here but if I want to spend the rest of my life with my boyfriend, why shouldn't I be granted the same rights and responsibilities as my friend who got married but to someone of the opposite sex? I'm not getting extra rights, you aren't losing your rights. Most of the rights that gay couples fight for are about survivor rights and visitation rights, rights that brothers or sisters, or immediate family already have. Call it what you will, but I believe any long term committed relationship, sexual or not, between consenting adults should be afforded the same rights as marriage. If that means calling it something different, whatever. With me, its about the rights not the name. The fight was a preemptive one politically by the way. Conservative politicians jumped the gun and fought this in 1996 with DOMA, not because it was seriously on the horizon, but because it distracts from the "gay agenda." That agenda was to guarantee the right of gay people to not be fired for being gay.

[FlaSoxxJim]