southsideirish71 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Just looking into last years numbers between the odds on favorites for 5th starter seem to be between Grilli and Diaz. I think that if we dont sign Perez or trade for something we need to consider every possible option before giving these guys a shot. Their numbers are staggering how bad they are. The Teeball analogy that people talk about is pretty correct. I think that as long as the person has had some major league experience we could take it. Even if they give us a 5.50 ERA it is still better. Preferably someone who has some sink to their pitches. Here are the stats for Diaz and Grilli for 2004 TeeBall Stand Tracker Grilli ERA 7.40 2-3 8 games started 1 complete game In 45 Innings of work he gave up 52 hits and 38 runs He gave up 11 homers and walked 20 while striking out 26 Opponents batted .294 against him Diaz ERA 6.75 2-5 in 7 GS 0 complete games in 49 Innings of work he gave up 62 hits and 38 runs He gave up 13 homers and walked 16 while striking out 33 Opponents batted .310 against him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 You forgot to add Shoenies Numbers.. make sure to break them up from April-May, then the real numbers from May on.. KW Motto, If its broke why fix it? IMO, IF we are going into the season with the 3 headed monster, (Grilli, Diaz,Shoney), I would want Diaz to get it, and lets see what he has in say 5-7 starts, if he makes progress then keep him in there. No more of this, send the next guy to the wolves for a game. The kid is never going to learn anything from it, to pitch one day in the Bigs than go back to triple-a. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaseballNick Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I like Schoeney, or maybe Big Dustin Hermanson. I agree that we need to stick with someone for a good 5-7 starts, otherwise we may need to hire a team psychiatrist because we're screwing up these kids' heads. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Hey, I've got a better idea ... go out and sign or trade for an established guy. Let guys like Grilli and Diaz be fill-in, depth types. Neither has earned a thing based on their performances last year. Positive flashes here and there, that's it. I believe the White Sox will have five established starting pitchers before spring training. It'd be nice to have it done by Xmas but there is plenty of time. More importantly, there will be lots of player movement in January. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Hey, I've got a better idea ... go out and sign or trade for an established guy. Let guys like Grilli and Diaz be fill-in, depth types. Neither has earned a thing based on their performances last year. Positive flashes here and there, that's it. I believe the White Sox will have five established starting pitchers before spring training. It'd be nice to have it done by Xmas but there is plenty of time. More importantly, there will be lots of player movement in January. Yes i agree.Diaz sucks and so does Grilli, if we settle for any of these guys we will not win anything. We will pick up another starter. grilli and Diaz should only pitch if we have an injury. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Gaining Odalis Perez, or an established starter, changes the whole complexion of this team. If we're able to sign Perez, or trade for Vazquez, we'll have a staff that will eat up close to 1000 innings (Buehrle -- 220, Garcia -- 210, Garland 210 --, Contreras -- 160, Perez -- 190). All of these are rough estimates, and I even rounded down. You figure you'll have right around 1500 to pitch over the course of a year, so it'd be nice to have a staff that would be able to take out 2/3rds of those innings. Five capable starters is something we Sox fans deserve, considering the s*** we've seen from that black hole the past couple years... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngelasDaddy0427 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 While Grilli is perhaps the worst pitcher ever... :puke There is no way you can say Diaz flat out sucks... For god sakes his really horrible starters were all from games where he was just going from AAA to the majors. Hell they threw the kid out there in his first starts on 8 days rest and then f***ing 3 days rest. Thats how you f***ing treat a kid making his major league debut. The kid has talent. He has exellent control. The guy dominated AAA last year. Compare that to what Grilli did down their and your choice should be obvious about who should start. And not only that Diaz had some damn good starts to show from his efforts in the majors and great bullpen run. All Grilli has is the f***ing offense bailing him out. That being said I think we need a 5th starter badly and I want someone more proven. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 20, 2004 Author Share Posted December 20, 2004 Here is the factor that concerns me. Its not just the failure of the number 5 position. We have two possible inconsistant starters in the rotation outside of that. Contreras and Garland. Both have electric stuff when on. Both have had numerous brain farts. If these guys are solid, then we have no problem. But if they do the jeckle and hyde routine we could have the possiblities of 3 game losing streaks more often than usual. If we sign someone a perez or get someone at the top of the rotation, then it pushes Contreras and Garland down and lessens the impact. If we have a teeball stand at number 5 then Garland and Contreras must step up. They both have the talent but they must do it if we dont address the number 5 situation or we wil have more problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisox2334 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Dont be surprised if wont dont sign anyone that Hermanson becomes the starting pitcher. I watch a couple of games an he was able to at least go 5 or 6 innings for us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Here is the factor that concerns me. Its not just the failure of the number 5 position. We have two possible inconsistant starters in the rotation outside of that. Contreras and Garland. Both have electric stuff when on. Both have had numerous brain farts. If these guys are solid, then we have no problem. But if they do the jeckle and hyde routine we could have the possiblities of 3 game losing streaks more often than usual. If we sign someone a perez or get someone at the top of the rotation, then it pushes Contreras and Garland down and lessens the impact. If we have a teeball stand at number 5 then Garland and Contreras must step up. They both have the talent but they must do it if we dont address the number 5 situation or we wil have more problems. If Jon Garland is our number five starter, we will be in good shape. As a five -- me likey Jon Garland. As a three -- me no likey Jon Garland. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NUKE_CLEVELAND Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Just looking into last years numbers between the odds on favorites for 5th starter seem to be between Grilli and Diaz. I think that if we dont sign Perez or trade for something we need to consider every possible option before giving these guys a shot. Their numbers are staggering how bad they are. The Teeball analogy that people talk about is pretty correct. I think that as long as the person has had some major league experience we could take it. Even if they give us a 5.50 ERA it is still better. Preferably someone who has some sink to their pitches. Here are the stats for Diaz and Grilli for 2004 TeeBall Stand Tracker Grilli ERA 7.40 2-3 8 games started 1 complete game In 45 Innings of work he gave up 52 hits and 38 runs He gave up 11 homers and walked 20 while striking out 26 Opponents batted .294 against him Diaz ERA 6.75 2-5 in 7 GS 0 complete games in 49 Innings of work he gave up 62 hits and 38 runs He gave up 13 homers and walked 16 while striking out 33 Opponents batted .310 against him HAHA!!! MY CATCH PHRASE IS CATCHING ON!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 If Jon Garland is our number five starter, we will be in good shape. As a five -- me likey Jon Garland. As a three -- me no likey Jon Garland. IMO, I would make Jon # 4 and Jose #5 for the reason, when we are not going to use JOSE because of days off, we can use him in the pen which he has excelled at in the past. I don't think Jonny would do well in the same situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 HAHA!!! MY CATCH PHRASE IS CATCHING ON!!! I was almost positive it was you who started this thread when I first saw the name of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 20, 2004 Author Share Posted December 20, 2004 HAHA!!! MY CATCH PHRASE IS CATCHING ON!!! If we go with Grilli/Diaz for the 5th, you should print up soxtalk teeshirts with that image on the back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KWs OK for Me Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 My favorite Jason Grilli quote comes from Rotoworld: Jason Grilli was tagged for six runs in 3 2/3 innings tonight in a loss to the Royals. Only the White Sox would prefer this to Felix Diaz. Grilli finishes 2-3 with a 7.40 ERA. There will be no reason to keep him on the 40-man roster in the offseason. Yet we are considering him for the fifth starter spot on the 25 man rotation, how low the rotation has sunk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 My favorite Jason Grilli quote comes from Rotoworld: Yet we are considering him for the fifth starter spot on the 25 man rotation, how low the rotation has sunk. But, your name says it all... "KWs OK for Me" yet he is the one that has created this mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Wasn't Diaz the one who outpitched Zambrano against the Cubs at the Cell last year? I liked his stuff a lot the one time I saw him - but when you're pitching on the 5th starter wheel like we've had for the last two years, how is anyone going to succeed? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KWs OK for Me Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 But, your name says it all... "KWs OK for Me" yet he is the one that has created this mess. I said hes OK, I didn't say he does a great job. I think KW does the best he can with the resources hes got. I ultimately think that Jerry and the board pull the strings on everything and he does the best that he can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted December 20, 2004 Author Share Posted December 20, 2004 Wasn't Diaz the one who outpitched Zambrano against the Cubs at the Cell last year? I liked his stuff a lot the one time I saw him - but when you're pitching on the 5th starter wheel like we've had for the last two years, how is anyone going to succeed? But he bookended that stay in the rotation with getting destroyed two times before 6 runs over 4 innings and then gave up 8 runs in 2 against the injuns. So yes he pitched well against the cubs and in relief, but the sample of him pitching against the other teams is what causes most of the posters to flinch. The only starter we have had that came up from our system is Mark Buerhle. I was sick of seeing last year, this guy is making his first start against the whitesox and he would dominate us. We would have our minor league talent come up and get destroyed. Everyone wants us to give each of these guys an ample shot, but how patient should we be? I mean with Diaz he was constantly falling behind hitters and then giving up the long ball during his first few starts. If you dont mind a loss on the 5th starters turn in the rotation then by all means let him work through it. But last year we were trying to win, so you cant fault management for trying to put something in place to fix it. Watching him go 2 innings and get slammed all over the field was enough for me to say he isnt ready. Diaz might be fine one day, but he needs to learn another pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KWs OK for Me Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 What about Black Jack McDowell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Yeah, but I think we brought him up in a bad situation. Our season was really already on the brink there and there was a lot of undue pressure that could conceivably screw with a young guy's head? Especially when he's being sent in and out of Charlotte? Just askin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KWs OK for Me Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 What about Black Jack McDowell? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthraxFan93 Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 I said hes OK, I didn't say he does a great job. I think KW does the best he can with the resources hes got. I ultimately think that Jerry and the board pull the strings on everything and he does the best that he can. SO your saying JR and the board is telling KW to trade away our talent to rent a player for a year? Who here would love to say that our #3 starter is Kip Wells?? Then we would be worriing about other issues here KW is not OK.. KW is the reason we have this problem, but enough about that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 While Grilli is perhaps the worst pitcher ever... :puke There is no way you can say Diaz flat out sucks... For god sakes his really horrible starters were all from games where he was just going from AAA to the majors. Hell they threw the kid out there in his first starts on 8 days rest and then f***ing 3 days rest. Thats how you f***ing treat a kid making his major league debut. The kid has talent. He has exellent control. The guy dominated AAA last year. Compare that to what Grilli did down their and your choice should be obvious about who should start. And not only that Diaz had some damn good starts to show from his efforts in the majors and great bullpen run. All Grilli has is the f***ing offense bailing him out. That being said I think we need a 5th starter badly and I want someone more proven. Actually I can. He has one pitch. that's it. Or least thats all he can get over the plate. I think he is Lorenzo barcelo of the future. But you can continue to like him. I think he sucks, and it will prove itself out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Beast Posted December 20, 2004 Share Posted December 20, 2004 Actually I can. He has one pitch. that's it. Or least thats all he can get over the plate. I think he is Lorenzo barcelo of the future. But you can continue to like him. I think he sucks, and it will prove itself out. Jeckle, seriously, do you ever think of things when you post them? Cuz usually thats why you are blasted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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