Billy Beane

[aboz56]

Gammons i think said the A's could be better this year i wouldnt go that far but id say competetive still

 

If Harden is a stud, which I see happening, I think they'll contend for the division once again.

[KittleWalk83]

Exactly.  both of the Marlins championships are due to spending big in free agents.  That's how the Marlins won in 1997.  Then they began trading off all these good players (rightfully or wrongfully selling highat the time) and acquring good prospects by trade while suffering through a couple of rebuilding seasons and high draft picks.

I don't think the Marlins would have won either championship if they didn't break the bank in 1997.

Bob

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What are you talking about? The 2003 wasn't a free agent signing after free agent signing. They did get Pudge but otherwise, they had mostly home grown players.

 

And I should have been more clear and said the Marlins 2003 WS.

[Chisoxmatt]

If Harden is a stud, which I see happening, I think they'll contend for the division once again.

 

It will be pretty hard to contend in the west. Even if harden is a stud. Anaheim and Texas are both going to be good again this year.

[DonkeyKongerko]

I don't think KW wants to be in Moneyball 2.

[SuperSteve]

What are you talking about?  The 2003 wasn't a free agent signing after free agent signing.  They did get Pudge but otherwise, they had mostly home grown players. 

 

And I should have been more clear and said the Marlins 2003 WS.

But, what he is saying is the Marlins got all their homegrown players from trading their best players. The first WS team had Sheffeld, Leiter, Hernandez, Renteria, and a ton of solid players.

 

I think the 2003 WS team is a product of being terrible the seasons before. Beckett and Co were top draft picks, so they finished with amongst the worst records in the MLB for a few seasons.

 

BTW; IRod, Uribina, Conine, Pierre, Pavano, and Encarnacion are not homegrown, and all were key contributors to that team.

[SuperSteve]

Isringhausen.

 

I thought there was someone else, but guess I was wrong.

Bob

IIRC, he started as a starter in New York (NL). I imagine it was someone else who brought Isringhausen to Oakland and got him on track. That is what I would think. Otherwise I think he goes for bigger names...Dotel, Foulke, Koch.

[ChWRoCk2]

It will be pretty hard to contend in the west. Even if harden is a stud. Anaheim and Texas are both going to be good again this year.

 

i think seattle will be better than texas figuring they go after a pitcher

[Chisoxfn]

It will be pretty hard to contend in the west. Even if harden is a stud. Anaheim and Texas are both going to be good again this year.

You gotta admit though, Texas has yet to fill there big hole from this past season, which was pitching. If I were a Ranger fan I'd be royally ticked off considering they got a very very good ballclub offensively.

 

But I think the Angels are going to flat out run away with the division while the A's and Rangers stay around .500; On the other hand I think the Indians flounder.

[KittleWalk83]

But, what he is saying is the Marlins got all their homegrown players from trading their best players. The first WS team had Sheffeld, Leiter, Hernandez, Renteria, and a ton of solid players.

 

I think the 2003 WS team is a product of being terrible the seasons before. Beckett and Co were top draft picks, so they finished with amongst the worst records in the MLB for a few seasons.

 

BTW; IRod, Uribina, Conine, Pierre, Pavano, and Encarnacion are not homegrown, and all were key contributors to that team.

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But they are not all big money free agent signings either.

 

And if the following is an excuse

 

" top draft picks, so they finished with amongst the worst records in the MLB for a few seasons."

 

Than the White Sox haven't had a Top 10 pick in forever. While the A's before beane got there had the 2nd pick in 98 (Mudler) and the 9th pick in 99 or 2000 (Zito)

 

The beane and his beane sprouts are overrated.

[hi8is]

billy beane does as much good for his ball club as a tire arm does for my right testicle

[AngelasDaddy0427]

I honestly don't think Billy Beane is all that great of a GM. Everyone acts like he's some kind of genius but it's not hard to win when you stumble across three of the best young pitchers in baseball. The real test is going to be able to see how he's able to rebuild now that he has lost that core.

[hi8is]

when did he take the helm as GM?

[gosox41]

What are you talking about?  The 2003 wasn't a free agent signing after free agent signing.  They did get Pudge but otherwise, they had mostly home grown players. 

 

And I should have been more clear and said the Marlins 2003 WS.

 

 

I should be more clear. Signing Free Agents in 1997 was a big reason the Marlins won the 2003 series. When the season was over the Marlins traded a bunch of good to great players for prospects. A lot of these prospects helped the 2003 team flourish. Also, by winning and breaking up the 1997 team, the Marlins became quite lousy. They had high draft picks that also helped them.

 

So my point isif the Marlins were just another average team in 1997, one that never broke the bank, they would most likely not have won in 2003. They wouldn't have all that great talent to trade after the '97 series. And unless they went from my assumption of an average team in 1997 with no free agent signings and continually played average from 1998-2002 they wouldn't have the advantage of high draft picks.

 

That was my point.

 

 

 

Bob

[gosox41]

IIRC, he started as a starter in New York (NL). I imagine it was someone else who brought Isringhausen to Oakland and got him on track. That is what I would think. Otherwise I think he goes for bigger names...Dotel, Foulke, Koch.

 

Beane became GM in 1997. I thought Isringhausen was there in 1999 but I could be wrong.

 

 

 

Bob

[gosox41]

I honestly don't think Billy Beane is all that great of a GM. Everyone acts like he's some kind of genius but it's not hard to win when you stumble across three of the best young pitchers in baseball. The real test is going to be able to see how he's able to rebuild now that he has lost that core.

 

 

I guess the issue is if he really stumbled on thoe 3 pitchers. He drafted 2 of them. He also drafted Harden who soon will be a 4th pitcher he stumbled on. And he's brought in other guys with high celings like Blanton. The guy who sounds like he should be used for female sanitary reasons may also be a decent starter.

 

At some point it's not stumbing. If anything drafting Mark Buehrle in the 38th round is stumbling on a great pitcher. But give Beane some credit. He drafts and develops more pitching then the Sox.

 

Also, Beane is pretty solid. Look at the 2000-2004 seasons in the AL West. The Mariners have had a payroll in the $85-90 mil range. Until last year the Rangers were around $95 mill. Starting last year the Angels went from $64 mill in 02 to ober $90 mill in '04. And Beane has seen his payroll climb from about $30-35 mill to $ 60 mill. last year.

 

Yet considering an unbalanced schedule where he has to play thos 3 high spending teams about 19 times each he has managed to make the playoffs 4 years in a row and barely miss out on a fifth. Is it good management on Beane or incompetent management on the other 3 teams that they couldn't make the playoffs more. Yes I'm aware the Angels won the Series, but none no other team from the West has even been to the Series since the league went with the Wild Card.

 

 

Beane deserves a lot of credit.

 

 

 

Bob

[YASNY]

The Oakland A's will be sold in two weeks to Los Angeles land developer Lew Wolff for $170 million, according to high-ranking sources close to negotiations.

 

The above is from the USA Today. New ownership in Oakland could prove to be interesting as far as Beane goes. Is he a good GM that can win with adequate payroll or is he just adept at flying by the seat of his pants?

[DBAHO]

The above is from the USA Today.  New ownership in Oakland could prove to be interesting as far as Beane goes.  Is he a good GM that can win with adequate payroll or is he just adept at flying by the seat of his pants?

Yeah I started a thread last week about Steve Schott going to sell the team. The payroll ramifactions of this move will be interesting to see.

[KittleWalk83]

I should be more clear.  Signing Free Agents in 1997 was a big reason the Marlins won the 2003 series.  When the season was over the Marlins traded a bunch of good to great players for prospects.  A lot of these prospects helped the 2003 team flourish.  Also, by winning and breaking up the 1997 team, the Marlins became quite lousy.  They had high draft picks that also helped them.

 

So my point isif the Marlins were just another average team in 1997, one that never broke the bank, they would most likely not have won in 2003.  They wouldn't have all that great talent to trade after the '97 series.  And unless they went from my assumption of an average team in 1997 with no free agent signings and continually played average from 1998-2002 they wouldn't have the advantage of high draft picks.

 

That was my point.

Bob

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Ok the Marlins did trade alot of the players who won the 97 WS for prospects. But let's see 2003 Marlins:

 

WS MVP Josh Beckett. He was drafted by the Marlins.

 

Luis Castillo 2nd. Signed by the Marlins from Latin America.

 

Mike Lowell. Yankees draft pick and acquired in a trade from the Yankees for minor leaguers.

 

Alex Gonza signed by the Marlins.

 

Cabera- Marlins signed and developed.

 

Brad Penny acquired in a trade for prospects that the Marlins signed and developed.

 

2 of their four starter in the WS, 4 of their key players had nothing to do with the trading of the big money players from 97.

 

The only thing I'll give you is that the losing allowed them to get in a position to draft Beckett.

 

Just like losing got the A's in a position to draft Mulder #2 and Zito #9.

 

Beane is an arrogant overrated jerk. He's full of himself.