hey, im new on here...

 

Even with the HUGE loss of Maggs in RF, I think this will be a much better team. I'm very happy with getting rid of "stone hands" Lee, and a big upgrade to the pen. If we can get AJP, we will be a very solid team...still neading a middle infielder.

 

Problem:

loudmouth AJP vs. loudmouth Everett :finger

 

Flyer:

I want Loaiza. Dead arm and all.... he could come at almost no cost. I say just get him at a minor league contract (no offers yet?) and see if he can fill long relief, or step in as an ALT #5 starter.

Welcome to soxtalk.

 

I think everett being a cancer and an all around bad guy was totally blown out of proportion.He is not a problem in my eyes.

 

Loaiza wants a three year deal as it stands. Even though he blew last year, there is no way in hell he signs a minor league contract with anyone, dead arm or not.

Role Last April 2005

No. 1 starter Mark Buehrle Buehrle

No. 2 starter Esteban Loaiza Freddy Garcia

No. 3 starter Jon Garland Orlando Hernandez

No. 4 starter Scott Schoeneweis Jose Contreras

No. 5 starter Dan Wright Garland

Closer Billy Koch Shingo Takatsu

set-up man Cliff Politte Dustin Hermanson

set-up man Damaso Marte Marte

Middle relief Mike Jackson Luis Vizcaino

Middle relief Jon Adkins Politte

Long relief Neal Cotts Jason Grilli or Cotts

 

 

Im sure you all saw this on ESPN, but here is our Pitching staff (so far). A deffinate upgrade from top to bottom.

I say we are better. Welcome

Welcome

 

I agree were much better this year BUT iam not going to DIS my boy C LEE he gave 110% since hes been with us and keep his mouth shut and didnt talk s*** when he got traded like sorry ass Magglio doing

 

 

 

 

hey, im new on here...

 

Even with the HUGE loss of Maggs in RF, I think this will be a much better team.  I'm very happy with getting rid of "stone hands" Lee, and a big upgrade to the pen. If we can get AJP, we will be a very solid team...still neading a middle infielder. 

 

Problem:

loudmouth AJP vs. loudmouth Everett   :finger

 

Flyer:

I want Loaiza.  Dead arm and all.... he could come at almost no cost.  I say just get him at a minor league contract (no offers yet?) and see if he can fill long relief, or step in as an ALT #5 starter.

On paper we are a better team..lets just hope there is not to many "rainouts" this year :sleep

I think we are better, hope the change will relieve us of recently called up pitchers pitching like a Cy young winner against us.

rainouts wont make a difference, we need to score more consistently, there would be a day where we score nine runs and go silent the rest of the series

rainouts wont make a difference, we need to score more consistently, there would be a day where we score nine runs and go silent the rest of the series

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It was a metaphor...what happens to paper in the water?

Welcome to soxtalk.

 

I think everett being a cancer and an all around bad guy was totally blown out of proportion.He is not a problem in my eyes.

 

Loaiza wants a three year deal as it stands. Even though he blew last year, there is no way in hell he signs a minor league contract with anyone, dead arm or not.

 

 

Everett's problem is his weight. He needs to get his act together or risk looking like a Brontosaurus.

 

 

 

Bob

Everett's problem is his weight. He needs to get his act together or risk looking like a Brontosaurus.

Bob

 

And if that happens, he would be forced not to believe in himself, right?

I never really thought Maggs made us a good team.

 

What exactly did we win with him here?

 

A fluke division title in 2000 was about it.

hey, im new on here...

 

Even with the HUGE loss of Maggs in RF, I think this will be a much better team.  I'm very happy with getting rid of "stone hands" Lee, and a big upgrade to the pen. If we can get AJP, we will be a very solid team...still neading a middle infielder. 

 

Problem:

loudmouth AJP vs. loudmouth Everett   :finger

 

Flyer:

I want Loaiza.  Dead arm and all.... he could come at almost no cost.  I say just get him at a minor league contract (no offers yet?) and see if he can fill long relief, or step in as an ALT #5 starter.

 

 

How the hell can you call Lee 'stone hands'? You do realize he had no errors last year, right? :headshake

Everett's problem is his weight. He needs to get his act together or risk looking like a Brontosaurus.

Bob

 

 

And if that happens, he would be forced not to believe in himself, right? 

 

 

Ah didn't believe in no dinosours 'til I looked in the mirror one day.

How the hell can  you call Lee 'stone hands'? You do realize he had no errors last year, right? :headshake

 

haha seriously.. the only thing to be happy about with Lee is gone is we moved payroll.. but he was prolly our best all around player last year.. and we moved him for a bullben arm and a guy whos OBP was like .313

 

We took a risk on that one

And if that happens, he would be forced not to believe in himself, right? 

 

 

 

Yeah and we're still paying off for that one lucky year. We haven't gotten any major lucky breaks the past 4 years.

Ah didn't believe in no dinosours 'til I looked in the mirror one day.

 

Yes, we took a risk. But, with the report in Sept of KW and OG talking to Lee and telling him what he needed to work on, and the after trade bad press on Carlos, I believe there was more to Carlos Lee than met the eye of the average fan and that what we didn't know was a negative. When KW and OG talked to Lee, they might not have liked his attitude or responses to what they had to say. The main advantage the Twins have held over the Sox is their cohesiveness. Carlos may have been more of a problem than he was an asset.

 

I know this speculation on my part, but I don't think I'm just blowing smoke here. I believe there's something to this.

Oops ... quoted the wrong post.

I'm very happy with getting rid of "stone hands" Lee, and a big upgrade to the pen.

 

"Stone hands?" You have to be kidding right? Goodbye credibility. :headshake :puke

Lee was terrible in the outfield, regardless if he made any errors or not.

 

Half the time he never got to balls that most players would get to and perhaps the main reason he had no errors if that he only on occasion made difficult plays.

 

There are a lot of times I remember balls dropping right in front of him throughout the years.

 

Let's not make him out to be such a great outfielders, folks.

QUOTE(aboz56 @ Jan 3, 2005 -> 06:30 PM)

Lee was terrible in the outfield, regardless if he made any errors or not.

 

Half the time he never got to balls that most players would get to and perhaps the main reason he had no errors if that he only on occasion made difficult plays.

 

There are a lot of times I remember balls dropping right in front of him throughout the years.

 

Let's not make him out to be such a great outfielders, folks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The problem is that Lee's defense improved every year. You can't look at what he did in 2002 and compare it to 2003. You can't look at 2003 and compare it to 2004. When he first started in LF yeah he sucked. Maybe he might never have the best range but I think Carlos is lightyears ahead of when he started.

Lee was terrible in the outfield, regardless if he made any errors or not.

 

Half the time he never got to balls that most players would get to and perhaps the main reason he had no errors if that he only on occasion made difficult plays.

 

There are a lot of times I remember balls dropping right in front of him throughout the years.

 

Let's not make him out to be such a great outfielders, folks.

 

Lee's range factor(1.98 compared to the league average of 1.73), and his range factor per 9(2.06 compared to 2.04, the league average), both tell me he is average to above average, and his zone rating of .875 was 5th among LFers who qualified(16 LFers qualified)...and you may look at that and see that Moises Alou in 4th with a zone rating of .884 would lead a person to believe that stat is misleading, but you also have to consider that Alou's range factor per 9 was 1.66, that he made 8 errors in about 60 more innings then Carlos, and had fewer assists too while having fewer put outs, and it makes a little more sense.

 

Carlos is not bad...I don't get where everyone is coming with that. He is not good, not like even close to a GG caliber OFer...but he is not bad. I would put him in a category of slightly above average.

Maggs is no longer the player he once was. His agent has avoided physicals & tryouts in Dec (the busiest off-season month). That's a sure sign he's trying to avoid the injury risk issue. Maggs will sign with a team that is solid in RF but has the extra cash to take the risk. If he can play at all the Cubs certainly come to mind.

 

But if you had to do the odds I would say there is less than a 50% chance Maggs can play a full season in 2005 & less than a 30% chance he's close to 300/30/100.

 

So when considering those odds vs Jermaine Dye, Dye is a much lower risk with a better expected production level. Dye 2005 is definitely an upgrade over Maggs 2005.

 

Lee will be missed. You can knock his defense all you want, but he made wall plays & he showed a good arm. He never lacked effort. He was becoming a more patient hitter & that was driving up his production both at home & on the road. The Brewers are luckly to have him. I will look forward to him being a much bigger CubKilla force now.

 

But the White Sox did upgrade the total OF. With the additional of Pods the White Sox have upgraded all OF positions defensively. That's what they wanted. When you move the fences in you need guys who can make wall catches. Rowand, Pods, & Dye are those guys. With the move all 3 positions now feature strong arms that should help cut down the total bases of the opposition.

 

Yes Pods went from 313 to 244 & saw a similar drop in his OBP as a result.

But he still managed to steal 70 bases last year. Up 25 from the year before. The White Sox are a +59 in stolen bases now & project to beat Min in that dept by 30. Does it make a difference? Absolutely!

 

The stolen base is one of the most humilitating actions in baseball for team on the field. If everybody does their job to the best of their ability in theory a runner can not steal a base. So when it happens someone didn't perform at their best. That gets inside a pitcher's head. Even if it doesn't result in a run scored in the inning it still results in more pitches thrown under the highest amount of stress. Do it often enough & a pitcher will leave early.

 

This is also why I hope Kenny does sing Iguchi. Two expert base-stealers at the top of the order would make the White Sox the favorites to win the ALC. That kind of pressure faced 4/5 times a game is going to greatly weardown the opposition. Even if both hit 250, with an OBP of 330, they are still going to have a major impact. Especially in the ALC where the pitching for the most part is weak.

Lee's range factor(1.98 compared to the league average of 1.73), and his range factor per 9(2.06 compared to 2.04, the league average), both tell me he is average to above average, and his zone rating of .875 was 5th among LFers who qualified(16 LFers qualified)...and you may look at that and see that Moises Alou in 4th with a zone rating of .884 would lead a person to believe that stat is misleading, but you also have to consider that Alou's range factor per 9 was 1.66, that he made 8 errors in about 60 more innings then Carlos, and had fewer assists too while having fewer put outs, and it makes a little more sense.

 

Carlos is not bad...I don't get where everyone is coming with that.  He is not good, not like even close to a GG caliber OFer...but he is not bad.  I would put him in a category of slightly above average.

 

I have said something similar to this many times and people usually come back with, ''well he is still a bad outfielder.''

I have said something similar to this many times and people usually come back with, ''well he is still a bad outfielder.''

 

Yup. People have it in their heads that CLee was poor defensively and are too stuborn to admit he was fantastic last year.

 

He made significant improvements each and every year with both his glove and his bat.