Pirates owner rips other owners

[sox-r-us]

Maybe this has been discussed in the sports bar, but I think this deserves to be discussed on this board as it concerns the Sox a lot. We are one of those teams that get screwed when it comes to FAs too because of these ridiculous contracts.

 

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2005/base...y.ap/index.html

 

Some points I would like to make:

 

a) "I don't know about the bank vault being open," Mets general manager Omar Minaya said Friday. "We competed for Pedro and for Beltran with other clubs that were right there where we were and pretty much ended up paying."

 

This is the same Omar Minaya who could not get any FAs in Montreal due to no money. He should know what it feels for these other teams. Paying 7M for freakng Kris Benson is crazy

 

B) McClatchy's sharp talk mirrors that of the Orioles' Peter Angelos, who said first baseman Carlos Delgado's $52 million contract with Florida reflects baseball's "fiscal insanity."

 

Peter Angelos talking about fiscal insanity? How much did he pay for Belle? For Tejada? For freaking Ponson? And now he traded for Sosa? :headshake

 

c) "I don't know what happened, maybe they drank some funny water, but they all decided they were back on the binge," McClatchy said. "When somebody goes out and pays an average pitcher $7 million a year, then anybody who's an average pitcher says they need $7 million a year. That's very difficult, and when you're giving pitchers $18 million in arbitration, that also makes it difficult."

 

 

d) "I'm disappointed, very disappointed in the other owners, and I think as we go toward a new collective bargaining agreement, there's going to have to be some sort of constraint put on because these other guys can't control themselves," he said.

 

I agree with him. I hope there is a hard cap in 2006. I hope there is a long lock out to get it, but it needs to be there. Screw George and his $. I hope the NHL gets it too.

[striker]

Minaya is going to learn this year that there is more to winning than just buying players. The Mets will be losers. Again.

[TLAK]

I agree with him. I hope there is a hard cap in 2006. I hope there is a long lock out to get it, but it needs to be there. Screw George and his $. I hope the NHL gets it too.

Why? so the owners can just stuff all the profits in their own pockets?

 

In '04 Forbes shows team revenues of $3,870,000,000. USA today salaries total $2,071,265,943. That's 54% of the gross. Doesn't sound outrageous to me. Its an entertainment industry, the players ARE the product, after all we don't pay our money to watch Jerry Reinsdorf play do we?

 

Compare the big salaries you were quoting to the movie business. According to a British article Hanks, Cruise, Gibson, Carrey and Julia Roberts are able to start negotiations at $25m per picture. Around the $20 million mark are reputed to be stars like Adam Sandler, Cameron Diaz, Will Smith, Brad Pitt, Denzel Washington and Jackie Chan. At $15m are the likes of Kidman, Costner, Halle Berry, George Clooney, Jennifer Lopez and valley girl Catherine Zeta Jones.

 

Delgado's 5/52 is a lot of money, but I'm sure the Marlins wouldn't have agreed unless they were confident he would bring in plenty of revenue to justify it. Baseball is nearly a 4 BILLION-dollar business. I don't buy a word of the whining, it's just a cover up for greedy men to take an even larger share of our money.

 

Arise ye workers from your slumbers!

[winninguglyin83]

Workers?

 

If Kris Benson is a worker then his wife is a nun. A worker is a guy who gets up at 6 a.m. and reports to the steel mill.

 

give me a break.

 

as bad as the Sox have it, the Royals, Reds, Pirates, D-Rays and others have it worse. They're not players for any top-shelf guys. None.

 

The system ain't working. How many years in a row do you want to watch the REd Sox vs. the Yankees in the ALCS?

 

There needs to be a cap of SOME kind to level the playing field so Boston and New York can't spend more on their infields or pitching staffs than other teams spend on their 25-man roster.

 

Preach on, Papa Pirate, preach on.

[southsider17]

Yeah, I'm not so sold on a salary cap either. I do, however, think that broadcast and advertising revenue needs to be distributed more equally. How, I don't know. But a salary cap just guarantees owner profits. These are successful businessmen. They don't need any help to make more money

 

Edit: I do think a salary base is a good idea, though, so that stingy owners don't just pocket the additional revenue.

[chg027]

Why? so the owners can just stuff all the profits in their own pockets?

 

In '04 Forbes shows team revenues of  $3,870,000,000.  USA today salaries total  $2,071,265,943.  That's 54% of the gross.  Doesn't sound outrageous to me.  Its an entertainment industry, the players ARE the product, after all we don't pay our money to watch Jerry Reinsdorf play do we?

 

 

1. The players aren’t the only salaries / expenses teams have to pay out.

2. Not all teams make the money New York and Boston make.

3. Look at these teams Baltimore and Arizona.

· Baltimore has a new team in its back yard and attendance has been dropping for the past couple years. Tried to sign player but would not give crazy contracts away. Lost out on 3-4 players who signed for over a 1 mil more then they were willing to pay. Fans in Baltimore are blaming they’re owner for not paying/ offering more money.

· Arizona has had the attendance drop for the past couple years. To try and get it back had to sign some big name players. What do they do? Give crazy contracts ($$$) just to get players signed.

 

80% of the teams can’t afford a team budget of 80 million, but it is OK for 20% of the teams to spend over 110 million. Take 10 lowest salary teams and have them play the 10 highest salary teams and you call that entertainment. I don’t.

[TLAK]

Workers?

 

If Kris Benson is a worker then his wife is a nun. A worker is a guy who gets up at 6 a.m. and reports to the steel mill.

 

give me a break.

 

as bad as the Sox have it, the Royals, Reds, Pirates,  D-Rays and others have it worse. They're not players for any top-shelf guys. None.

 

The system ain't working. How many years in a row do you want to watch the REd Sox vs. the Yankees in the ALCS?

 

There needs to be a cap of SOME kind to level the playing field so Boston and New York can't spend more on their infields or pitching staffs than other teams spend on their 25-man roster.

 

Preach on, Papa Pirate, preach on.

1. If 7 million for Benson is too high, (and it is certainly debatable), so is Adam Sandler's 20 million per movie. Benson has much better command and a plus fast ball.

 

2. Two of the last 3 WS champions were mid to low budget teams, Angels and Marlins. The Angels have since gone wild but the Marlins are still pretty conservative. You can beat the Yankees and Rsox without going broke.

 

3. If furthering competitive balance means capping players salaries then you may indeed get a lock out - strike, and this could kill the 4 BILLION-dollar golden goose. After the '94 strike I didn't set foot in Comisky again until 2000. If these guys can't figure out how to live on $4 Billion, I'll spend more time at Hawkinson Field.

 

4. There have always been revenue imbalances in baseball -look at the St. Louis Browns or our own White Sox in the '30s- but the game seems to have survived. I used to feel as you do about this issue until I realized that it just wasn't my problem. Now I just watch the games and join occasional debates with friends like you, but I don't take it to heart. Its just baseball.

[GoodAsGould]

if there was a salary cap, which i wouldnt be a fan of. Than id hope since they wouldnt have to pay players as much ticket prices would go down too and food served in the park.

[Whitewashed in '05]

For the people saying that there shouldn't be a salary cap I ask you one question. Put yourself in the shoes of a die hard Devil Ray fan, you have NYY and Boston competeing to sign the best players no matter what the contract. Then you have Bal. who recently started opening up the wallet, where does that leave you in the division? Do you think its fair?

 

The only reason players are getting so much money is because of these clubs, these avg players gettin huge contracts just because of teams like NYY and Bos driving their price up. Would Clement think about coming to the Drays? No, what about RJ to Toronto? No. Now you can toss the question if the contract was big enough they would, well I think thats bs because if small market teams were able to compete then players would take a pay cut to play for a contender. How are you going to be a contender though with Boston and NY on top of you?

[Whitewashed in '05]

2.  Two of the last 3 WS champions were mid to low budget teams, Angels and Marlins.  The Angels have since gone wild but the Marlins are still pretty conservative.  You can beat the Yankees and Rsox without going broke.

 

I don't think thats a fair statement because if Yanks management was smarter in the past they would have spent their unlimited money on something other than hitters, like pitchers. Bring this to the present, can low budget teams really compete going against RJ, Pavano, Brown, Mussina, and Wright?

[False Alarm]

1.  If 7 million for Benson is too high, (and it is certainly debatable), so is Adam Sandler's 20 million per movie.  Benson has much better command and a plus fast ball.

 

2.  Two of the last 3 WS champions were mid to low budget teams, Angels and Marlins.  The Angels have since gone wild but the Marlins are still pretty conservative.  You can beat the Yankees and Rsox without going broke.

 

3.  If furthering competitive balance means capping players salaries then you may indeed get a lock out - strike, and this could kill the 4 BILLION-dollar golden goose.  After the '94 strike I didn't set foot in Comisky again until 2000.  If these guys can't figure out how to live on $4 Billion, I'll spend more time at Hawkinson Field.

 

4.  There have always been revenue imbalances in baseball  -look at the St. Louis Browns or our own White Sox in the '30s- but the game seems to have survived.  I used to feel as you do about this issue until I realized that it just wasn't my problem. Now I just watch the games and join occasional debates with friends like you, but I don't take it to heart.  Its just baseball.

 

1. no one cares about competitive balance in movies, and with good reason. this point ain't analogous.

 

2. that it's entirely possible for a small- to mid-market team to win the world series in no way refutes the fact that they are playing with a larger set of constraints than the financial powerhouses. you can argue that it's OK, even beneficial, for the sport to be set up unfairly, but it seems wrong to suggest that it actually is set up fairly just because of tradition or historical precedent.

 

3. agreed. and maybe the goose should be killed if it's inherently flawed.

 

4. OK. nothing wrong with that, but the historical point here is addressed under #2, and the personal point about not taking it to heart is relative and doesn't actually address what we're talking about in any way. it isn't importnat to you and it is to some others. and...?

 

i see no reason this thread should be moved from the pale hose board btw. market status is pretty much always pertinent to the chisox.

[mmmmmbeeer]

I'm really bothered by the fact that many people are against a salary cap due to an increase in owner profits. That's got to be the most absurd thing I've ever heard. These men are business men, capitalist hawks who saw the possibility of profits in baseball. They should be rewarded for their ventures, regardless of the amount. MLB, as much as I love it, WILL die without a salary cap in the next 15-20 years. Just as the pirates owner pointed out, owners of smaller market teams will no longer have any motivation to keep their franchises if they can't afford players and therefore can't keep attendance, thereby LOSING money.

 

If and when a hard cap is put in place there will immediately be a media/public outlash concerning ticket and vendor prices. Those prices WILL drop once the owners aren't stretching themselves to make payroll. If they don't drop, I believe that baseball will struggle severely with attendance and the sport will die. There's a balance that will keep the game alive, and if I can figure that out, and I'm far from a businessman, I'm sure that these multi-millionaire owners can figure it out.

 

An unruly players' union is ruining the game, I get frustrated when the blame gets pushed on the owners.

[sox-r-us]

Why was this thread moved from the Pale Hose board?

 

:shakes head

[Punch and Judy Garland]

The game will not have a cap in our lifetime. Baseball can't afford to go on strike/lockout, which is the only way for a cap to be implemented. I think saying the mlb is going to die in the next 15-20 years without a cap is just plain wrong. The game is at peak popularity and baseball will continue to thrive. ALso, the Carlos EBltran deal taught us there is a ca in place, it's about 200 mil.

[sox-r-us]

I guess then we should just resign ourselves to seeing the spankees and red sox play every year in the ALCS