Gotta love it

[mmmmmbeeer]

from a rotoworld article:

 

"Aaron Miles did hit a grand slam on Sunday, but he’s at .281/.289/.406 for the season. How he’s fooled a major league team to not only play him but to bat him at the top of the lineup is one of the bigger mysteries in baseball today."

 

 

billy beane ain't got s*** on k-dub

[rangercal]

Here's to KW :uhoh

[qwerty]

Ozzie the airdale thinks we got ripped off so it must be true.

[ISF]

Miles hasn't walked much, otherwise his numbers are quite acceptable for a 2B.

 

I love having Uribe on this team, but Miles is hardly terrible. That RotoWorld guy is judging him solely on one stat: OBP

 

Horrible way to do analysis of any player.

[Guest JimH]

Ozzie the airdale thinks we got ripped off so it must be true.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree with you.

 

He was far from the only one though ... there were a couple of self proclaimed "experts", thankfully no longer here, who followed the team closely in 2000-2003 and saw a game or two in Birmingham ... they moaned about this trade ad nauseum and tried to take KW to task at SoxFest.

 

Miles is serviceable but Uribe has tons more talent and is showing it.

[southsider2k5]

Ozzie the airdale thinks we got ripped off so it must be true.

 

Maybe we will lose a few more games so he can finally come back and explain why..

[gettysburg32]

It might still be worth some dap for KW, but not because Rotoworld says so. Like ISF said, when Rotoworld goes into opinion that's based solely on stats, or in this case even worse, one stat, it's usually time to tune out. Judging a guy's overall production on his OBP after just a month of the season is really weak analysis.

 

Look at it this way, in 102 plate appearances, Miles has 31 hits and 1 walk, making his OBP .314. Miles has never walked a whole lot in his career numbers, but the 1 walk is still a low aberration. Last season Miles walked 29 times in 551 plate apps. Even if he was just averaging that ratio of walks, he'd have 'roundabout 5 or 6 walks, and at this early date in the season, that would make a world of difference in the OBP number, it would go from .314 to .363 (using 6). If his OBP was .363 would Rotoworld have written the same thing? Doubt it. So all that ends up being based on a grand total of five walks, and so now, "No way Miles should bat second." Weak sauce IMHO. And furthermore, let's (us ='s Rotoworld) not even mention that the Rockies have a ton of better options too.

[Wedge]

Miles hasn't walked much, otherwise his numbers are quite acceptable for a 2B.

 

I love having Uribe on this team, but Miles is hardly terrible. That RotoWorld guy is judging him solely on one stat: OBP

 

Horrible way to do analysis of any player.

 

I agree his average and slugging % isn't terrible, but that's not why this is funny. What's funny is that Billy Beane's stated philosophy is that OPS is the most important statistic in baseball: you want hitters with high OPS and pitchers that have low OPS against. What's funny is that consistently his teams rank in the bottom 10 (typically bottom 5) for OPS.

 

Billy Beane is basically a fraud. His theory may be true, in fact, it appears Boston's team last year applied it and reaped the benefits. However, Oakland has won with the formula we're all familiar with: "put a better starting pitcher out there than the other team every 3 days out of 5 and you'll win a crapload of games".

 

(by the way, Miles's OPS looks to be about .414, which isn't what we like to call good. For all the emphasis placed on OPS by Beane, why does he have a role on that team?).

[southsider17]

I agree his average and slugging %  isn't terrible, but that's not why this is funny.  What's funny is that Billy Beane's stated philosophy is that OPS is the most important statistic in baseball: you want hitters with high OPS and pitchers that have low OPS against.  What's funny is that consistently his teams rank in the bottom 10 (typically bottom 5) for OPS.

 

Billy Beane is basically a fraud.  His theory may be true, in fact, it appears Boston's team last year applied it and reaped the benefits.  However, Oakland has won with the formula we're all familiar with: "put a better starting pitcher out there than the other team every 3 days out of 5 and you'll win a crapload of games".

 

(by the way, Miles's OPS looks to be about .414, which isn't what we like to call good.  For all the emphasis placed on OPS by Beane, why does he have a role on that team?).

 

 

Actually, Beane (and it may more accurately be attributed to DePodesta) believes that OBP is the most important offensive stat in baseball. They actually believe 3OPS (OBPx3 + SLG) is a better indicator of offensive production.

 

Also Miles has NO role on Beane's team because he plays for the ROCKIES!

[ISF]

Miles's OPS looks to be about .414

 

That's his slg pct. His OPS is hovering just under .700 because of his low OBP. If he keeps hitting at a .280 clip, that OBP will be over .300 with room to spare at the end of the year. Very likely Miles OPS will be pushing .750 at season's end. Again, very acceptable for a 2B.

 

I hated losing Miles, he was a hustle guy, but I was also very excited about getting an heir to SS with Uribe's potential. We had no other answers there.

[qwerty]

Uribe hits for much more power, plays multiple positions, and his defense >>> miles defense.

 

Give me miles anyday.

[Milkman delivers]

Uribe hits for much more power, plays multiple positions, and his defense >>> miles defense.

 

Give me miles anyday.

 

Ha, I'm sure you meant Uribe or you were being sarcastic.

[3E8]

He means Miles and he is cereal.

[CWSGuy406]

I agree his average and slugging %  isn't terrible, but that's not why this is funny.  What's funny is that Billy Beane's stated philosophy is that OPS is the most important statistic in baseball: you want hitters with high OPS and pitchers that have low OPS against.  What's funny is that consistently his teams rank in the bottom 10 (typically bottom 5) for OPS.

 

Billy Beane is basically a fraud.  His theory may be true, in fact, it appears Boston's team last year applied it and reaped the benefits.  However, Oakland has won with the formula we're all familiar with: "put a better starting pitcher out there than the other team every 3 days out of 5 and you'll win a crapload of games".

 

(by the way, Miles's OPS looks to be about .414, which isn't what we like to call good.  For all the emphasis placed on OPS by Beane, why does he have a role on that team?).

 

Can you tell me where exactly Beane said this? I'd like to see some proof, rather than you just pulling s*** out of your ass...

 

I've read Moneyball twice, and I don't recall OPS being the main statistic of use. In fact, like S17 said, DePodesta did an experiment, basically, which told them OBP was more important than SLG%.

 

And why does Oakland need Beane? 'Cause they don't have a whole lot of money in Oakland (I believe it's in the lower half, correct me if I'm wrong), and Beane has proven he can win on a small payroll... I dunno, seems to me like he's one of the better GM's in baseball...

[ISF]

The Moneyball philosophy isn't OPS or bust.

 

The Moneyball pihilosophy is analyzing statistics and attempting to find value in areas that other, richer clubs underrate. OPS just happened to be the statistic that many clubs shortchanged at the time.

 

Beane's draft picks are often decided based on these stats, whereas traditional scouting leaned heavily on body type, radar gun, and stopclock.

 

Last year Theo Epstein used analysis of defensive stats to decide to make the moves for Cabrera and Mientkiewicz. It was a total Moneyball maneuver.

 

Beane should get credit for devising a plan for attempting to keep up with the haves. The problem is, when the haves figure it out, money makes a big difference. That is why Epstein and Boston are so dangerous. he has been extremely efficient in doling out the Boston cash.

 

I think Beane made the wrong choice on his pitching. Between that and Chavez' inexplicable slump, the A's are hurting as a result.

[Jabroni]

Uribe hits for much more power, plays multiple positions, and his defense >>> miles defense.

 

Give me miles anyday.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[CWSGuy406]

The Moneyball philosophy isn't OPS or bust.

 

The Moneyball pihilosophy is analyzing statistics and attempting to find value in areas that other, richer clubs underrate. OPS just happened to be the statistic that many clubs shortchanged at the time.

 

Beane's draft picks are often decided based on these stats, whereas traditional scouting leaned heavily on body type, radar gun, and stopclock.

 

Last year Theo Epstein used analysis of defensive stats to decide to make the moves for Cabrera and Mientkiewicz. It was a total Moneyball maneuver.

 

Beane should get credit for devising a plan for attempting to keep up with the haves. The problem is, when the haves figure it out, money makes a big difference. That is why Epstein and Boston are so dangerous. he has been extremely efficient in doling out the Boston cash.

 

I think Beane made the wrong choice on his pitching. Between that and Chavez' inexplicable slump, the A's are hurting as a result.

 

ISF, that's probably the best explanation of the Moneyball philosophy that I've seen.

 

You said it exactly correctly -- it's not finding slow fat guys who can get on base, it's looking at the market, and finding what's undervalued. Those particular years, OBP was undervalued. This year, it seems that Beane and co. think that defense is undervalued, as when healthy, they're a pretty damn good defensive club (except with Kendall behind homeplate, and he just has a bad arm).

 

Awesome post.

[ISF]

Thanks. By the way, Miles took a walk tonight.

[YASNY]

I think Beane made the wrong choice on his pitching. Between that and Chavez' inexplicable slump, the A's are hurting as a result.

 

I don't think it's fair to judge Beane's decision until about this time next season. Branch Rickey had a saying .... It's better to trade them one year too early than one year too late. With that in mind, if Beane would have kept Hudson and Mulder for one more year, he would have gotten nothing but draft picks for them. Instead, he got some good young ballplayers to build around. I expected Oakland to struggle this year, but they are hanging close. Beane might be able to make a move in July to get them headed to the top again.

[Jabroni]

I don't think it's fair to judge Beane's decision until about this time next season.  Branch Rickey had a saying .... It's better to trade them one year too early than one year too late.  With that in mind, if Beane would have kept Hudson and Mulder for one more year, he would have gotten nothing but draft picks for them.  Instead, he got some good young ballplayers to build around.  I expected Oakland to struggle this year, but they are hanging close.  Beane might be able to make a move in July to get them headed to the top again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I honeslty don't think Beane is trying to win anything this year. Afterall, he had the Big Three and better lineups in the past and didn't win anything. Do you think he really expects to win anything this season? His moves were made with the future in mind.

[YASNY]

I honeslty don't think Beane is trying to win anything this year.  Afterall, he had the Big Three and better lineups in the past and didn't win anything.  Do you think he really expects to win anything this season?  His moves were made with the future in mind.

 

Exactly. He's laying the foundation this year. However, if he's got a shot at it, he'll take it if can do so without destroying that foundation.

[ISF]

I don't think it's fair to judge Beane's decision until about this time next season.  Branch Rickey had a saying .... It's better to trade them one year too early than one year too late.  With that in mind, if Beane would have kept Hudson and Mulder for one more year, he would have gotten nothing but draft picks for them.  Instead, he got some good young ballplayers to build around.  I expected Oakland to struggle this year, but they are hanging close.  Beane might be able to make a move in July to get them headed to the top again.

 

 

I have no problem with him trading a couple of the pitchers, I'm not judging him for that. IMO, he needed to keep Hudson, not Zito. That's the decision I think he erred in making. He didn't make a very good trade of Hudson either.

[YASNY]

I have no problem with him trading a couple of the pitchers, I'm not judging him for that. IMO, he needed to keep Hudson, not Zito. That's the decision I think he erred in making. He didn't make a very good trade of Hudson either.

 

On just that level, Hudson vs Zito, I agree with you. Now let's go to another level. Would Atlanta have accepted Zito instead of Hudson? Was there an offer on the table from anyone else that was an appropriate offer? Was there any difference in Hudson's salary as opposed to Zito's? Freeing up more salary would, in turn, increase Beane's team building options. I don't know the answer to any of these questions, but you have to look beyond which pitcher you'd rather keep.