Be Good Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Also Politte faces the same batters as the best closers face. Its not like Cliff faces the bottom of the lineup everytime he pitches. He faces the same lineup as closers, so as far as im concerned his job is just as hard. He has to do the same thing, try to get outs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 01:59 PM) Thanks. Using my 93 characters, I asked him why Timlin is an ALl-Star over Cliff Politte considering Cliff has a much better BAA, WHIP, and K/9. You didn't use the Inherited Runners scored arguement? That's the most solid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseysox Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 01:54 PM) Funny I always though the All-Star game was for the guys who did the best jobs at their respective positions. exactly. he is a pitcher. he is not one of the 12 best in the american league. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 12:51 PM) i truly believe that if cliff politte was a freaking brewer, none of us would care if he made the all-star team. and you know why? because he's a freaking middle reliever!!!! this is the ALL-STAR GAME. it's like putting a guy on the team because he's really, really good at sacrificing runners over. no one goes to games to see craig counsell move guys over, and no one goes to games to watch cliff politte pitch the 8th inning. let's move on. is cliff politte really good at what he does? f*** yeah. but he's not an all-star. This is one of the more ridiculous posts I've seen on this site. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseysox Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 03:26 PM) This is one of the more ridiculous posts I've seen on this site. please. tell me why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 02:29 PM) please. tell me why. Because middle relievers our a positions they're in your bullpen just like a closer. Just because middle relievers don't pitch in the 9th inning doesn't mean they're not just as important as a closer. You can argue whether or not Cliff is an allstar but to say he shouldn't be because he's a 7-8th inning guy is just ridiculous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 01:51 PM) i truly believe that if cliff politte was a freaking brewer, none of us would care if he made the all-star team. and you know why? because he's a freaking middle reliever!!!! this is the ALL-STAR GAME. it's like putting a guy on the team because he's really, really good at sacrificing runners over. no one goes to games to see craig counsell move guys over, and no one goes to games to watch cliff politte pitch the 8th inning. let's move on. is cliff politte really good at what he does? f*** yeah. but he's not an all-star. The comparison is flawed. Politte is an integral part of the pen, pitching in some of the most pressure packed situations. He has to get the ball over to the closer. If you wanted to make a comparison like that, he would be compared to a leadoff hitter or a 2nd hitter, setting the next pitcher up to succeed in his role. A better comparison for your logic, since most sac bunts come when you absolutely need them, and are put down almost exclusively by weaker hitters, would be a mopup guy. You will never see a mopup, 3 inning, pitch-in-a-blowout pitcher ever pitch in an ASG if that has been his role the entire season(and I add that last part because Jake Westbrook started last season in that role, but was an All-Star as a starter). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseysox Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 let's put these guys in the all-star game too: arthur rhodes -- 31 IP, 24 H, 5 BB, 0.87 ERA jesse crain -- 34.2 IP, 22 H, 8 BB, 1.04 ERA justin duchscherer -- 38.2 IP, 30 H, 8 BB, 1.40 ERA mike timlin -- 37.1 IP, 36 H, 9 BB, 1.21 ERA cliff politte is just another good middle reliever. not an all-star. or should we invite all of these guys too? i know, let's invite nothing but really good middle relievers, and let closers and starters stay at home. i'm sure there's a thread in cleveland, minnesota, oakland and boston talking about how all these guys should go to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseysox Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 03:37 PM) The comparison is flawed. Politte is an integral part of the pen, pitching in some of the most pressure packed situations. He has to get the ball over to the closer. If you wanted to make a comparison like that, he would be compared to a leadoff hitter or a 2nd hitter, setting the next pitcher up to succeed in his role. A better comparison for your logic, since most sac bunts come when you absolutely need them, and are put down almost exclusively by weaker hitters, would be a mopup guy. You will never see a mopup, 3 inning, pitch-in-a-blowout pitcher ever pitch in an ASG if that has been his role the entire season(and I add that last part because Jake Westbrook started last season in that role, but was an All-Star as a starter). listen, just list me your 12 all-star pitchers, and tell me who you are keeping home for politte. that's all i ask here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 03:38 PM) let's put these guys in the all-star game too: arthur rhodes -- 31 IP, 24 H, 5 BB, 0.87 ERA jesse crain -- 34.2 IP, 22 H, 8 BB, 1.04 ERA justin duchscherer -- 38.2 IP, 30 H, 8 BB, 1.40 ERA mike timlin -- 37.1 IP, 36 H, 9 BB, 1.21 ERA cliff politte is just another good middle reliever. not an all-star. or should we invite all of these guys too? i know, let's invite nothing but really good middle relievers, and let closers and starters stay at home. i'm sure there's a thread in cleveland, minnesota, oakland and boston talking about how all these guys should go to. Politte > all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseysox Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 03:40 PM) Politte > all he's not better than crain. and if he wasn't a white sock, you wouldn't be arguing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 03:41 PM) he's not better than crain. and if he wasn't a white sock, you wouldn't be arguing this. Look at all the stats and say that again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseysox Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 03:44 PM) Look at all the stats and say that again. he's not better than crain. and if he wasn't a white sock, you wouldn't be arguing this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 03:44 PM) he's not better than crain. and if he wasn't a white sock, you wouldn't be arguing this. Easy to say that when you only look at a couple of the stats. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseysox Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 03:46 PM) Easy to say that when you only look at a couple of the stats. list me your all-star pitchers. someone. anyone. please. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 Look at the stats. Why should Crain go over Politte? Because he has 1 more win or because he has 5.1 more innings or is it that his ERA is 9 points lower (ERA is very overrated for relief pitchers)? Politte is on a better team, he has a lower BAA, lower WHIP, lower OPSA, and a higher K/9. Not to mention the fact that Politte has inherited 5 more runners than Crain and Politte has had 1 less runner score. Politte is more deserving than Crain...period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 03:44 PM) he's not better than crain. and if he wasn't a white sock, you wouldn't be arguing this. Politte is allowing 16.7% of inherited runners to score...meaning he gets out of the situation unscathed 5 out of 6 times. Crain is allowing 26.3% of inherited runners to score...meaning he gets out of it unscathed roughly 3 out of 4 times. Politte also has a better WHIP than Crain too, probably the most important stat for relievers in the game. Politte > Crain, and everyone else you brought up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 03:53 PM) Halladay Colon Buehrle Rodgers Santana B.J.Ryan Rivera Guardado Pollite Timlin Garland? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseysox Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 All-Star pitchers Mark Buerhle Jon Garland Kenny Rogers Roy Halladay Bartolo Colon Matt Clement Johan Santana Mariano Rivera BJ Ryan Eddie Guardado Dustin Hermanson Bob Wickman Alright. Who gets thrown off the island so the Holy Lord of Middle Relief can pitch in the All-Star Game? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseysox Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 03:56 PM) Garland? lol yeah, let's leave the al saves leader home and take TWO middle relievers. good one. anyone else? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 02:57 PM) All-Star pitchers Mark Buerhle Jon Garland Kenny Rogers Roy Halladay Bartolo Colon Matt Clement Johan Santana Mariano Rivera BJ Ryan Eddie Guardado Dustin Hermanson Bob Wickman Alright. Who gets thrown off the island so the Holy Lord of Middle Relief can pitch in the All-Star Game? Wickman's been good, Politte's been better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(jerseysox @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 03:57 PM) Alright. Who gets thrown off the island so the Holy Lord of Middle Relief can pitch in the All-Star Game? Wickman. 1.31 WHIP? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 03:00 PM) Wickman is the AL saves leader. He stays. Who cares if he's the saves leader, Politte's stats trump every one of Wickman's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:01 PM) Wickman. 1.31 WHIP? Get the fish on aim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jerseysox Posted June 28, 2005 Share Posted June 28, 2005 QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:01 PM) Wickman. 1.31 WHIP? note to soxtalk -- this is not, i repeat, NOT, rotisserie baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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