KansasSoxFan Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Shingo is 36 years old, is in the last year of his contract, and has been erratic this year. I like Shingo, but I don't see why any team would give up any decent prospect or player in a trade for him straight up. Even if a third team is involved, how could we get anybody valuable enough to trade with? Maybe there is something else going on, like a team dumping salary on us in exchange for Shingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 I thought something might have been up when Ozzie used Vizcaino instead of Shingo in the 9th inning last night. With Viz being our long man (that sounds bad, I know), those are the types of situations that Ozzie has used Shingo all year. I have no problems trading Shingo, as he clearly has seen his better pitching days, and is in the twilight of his career. Don't forget, we play a lot of games against AL Central teams in the 2nd half. They've all seen a lot of Shingo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 QUOTE(upnorthsox @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 02:51 PM) Sure it's doable, but you don't pull the trigger unless the other deal is done at the same time. That was my point, and at this point I don't think the other deal is in place. That's why I think this rumor is just that, a rumor. I didn't like the Viz pickup to begin with and he's given me no reason to change my mind. Maybe that's bias on my part but so be it.  The only reason I give more credence to this report than other "rumors" we've heard and read is the specificity. This seems to be a report based on an informed source, whoever that may be.  Viz has been able to throw more than just his slider away, like he seemed to throw every pitch early in the yr. With a mid- 90's arm [wasn't that what we were told he had?!], and a lower salary than Shingo, why not keep him when he's doing better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubs Suck23 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 trade could be with Oakland their has been reports here in the bay area that the Sox are intersted in Juan Cruz the former Cubs player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt2719 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 09:45 AM) Well, if Kenny is able to turn Shingo into a guy like Eddie Guardado, I don't think we'll hear many questioning Shingo's ability to get guys out in pressure situations. A guy like Guardado is far, far, far more valuable to a pennant run than Shingo. EDIT: By the way, I just looked at Guardado's numbers this year.    The guy has been lights-out this season. I mean, it really appears he is pitching like the Guardado that simply shut the Sox down for so many years.  ...I'm starting to get excited.  one problem: guardado is old enough to be my great grandpa. are you one of the people who also suggested a while ago that we trade crede for vinny castilla? experience only goes so far; they need to be somewhat young in order to have some kind of physical ability left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Cruz has been god awful this yr, no way would I want to be stuck with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 QUOTE(Cubs Suck23 @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 10:19 AM) trade could be with Oakland their has been reports here in the bay area that the Sox are intersted in Juan Cruz the former Cubs player  That would be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubs Suck23 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 QUOTE(upnorthsox @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 09:24 AM) Cruz has been god awful this yr, no way would I want to be stuck with him. Â Â Your really not going to get alot in return for Shingo.. Who also has been brutal this year.. Plus Cruz is still a young player Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 QUOTE(fathom @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 03:11 PM) Don't forget, we play a lot of games against AL Central teams in the 2nd half. They've all seen a lot of Shingo. That's a good point. Teams like Boston, LAA and NYY have seen Shingo for an extra yr. Viz is new to them as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bjm676 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Why I'd be sad to be Shingo go, if this all true. He'd more than likely not going to be back next year, anyway. So it's best to get something for him. Also, since we may be getting someone else's top prospect, maybe KW is reluctant to trade one of our own (Anderson, Sweeney, Young, etc.) and could include him in a future deal. JMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 QUOTE(Cubs Suck23 @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 03:25 PM) Your really not going to get alot in return for Shingo.. Who also has been brutal this year.. Plus Cruz is still a young player  True, but I'd rather take my chances with Shingo than Cruz.  Btw:  Cruz: 21 IP 8.49 era 2.09 WHIP  Shingo 28 IP 5.14 era 1.54 WHIP  I'll take Shingo thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubs Suck23 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Team W L ERA G GS CG SHO SV SVO IP H R ER HR BB SO 2002 CHC 3 11 3.98 45 9 0 0 1 4 97.1 84 56 43 11 59 81 2003 CHC 2 7 6.05 25 6 0 0 0 1 61.0 66 44 41 7 28 65 2004 ATL 6 2 2.75 50 0 0 0 0 0 72.0 59 24 22 7 30 70 Â Â Cruz stats for the last 3 years.. He's only like 26 so I would take Cruz instead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxbadger Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 I dont think this rumor is very good. Â Shingo has a no trade clause which they fail to mention. The teams I think Shingo would approve (and in reality I think right now there is no reason to move from the Sox) are LA, San Fran, Seattle, and maybe the Angels. Â Why accept a trade to a team with a worse chance of winning when you are 36, on the last year of your contract, and have come from Japan to win? Â Does not make much sense. Â Im not going to even go into the fact Shingo is still one of our best pitchers in the bullpen. Relievers have ups and downs, look at Mota this year. But if Shingo is 1 inch better, than he becomes dominant again. Â SB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 04:14 PM) I dont think this rumor is very good. Shingo has a no trade clause which they fail to mention. The teams I think Shingo would approve (and in reality I think right now there is no reason to move from the Sox) are LA, San Fran, Seattle, and maybe the Angels.  Why accept a trade to a team with a worse chance of winning when you are 36, on the last year of your contract, and have come from Japan to win?  Only the Angels have a better chance of winning then the DBacks, who most think is the "team out west". I don't know the specifics of his no-trade clause. Yet if any team would have a decent shot, a west coast team that could make the playoffs would be up there.  The dbacks aren't exactly the Pirates or Rockies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 If you can get Juan Cruz for Shingo, you do it every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Â Look at Cruz's stats from Atlanta last year, plus he's doing extremely well in AAA. Before anyone says Leo Mazzone, this guy had nasty stuff when he pitched for the Cubs. He fits the White Sox situation perfectly ... a guy who can spot start or relieve. Â I would be very happy if this happens, it would be an excellent deal for the White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 04:25 PM) If you can get Juan Cruz for Shingo, you do it every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Look at Cruz's stats from Atlanta last year, plus he's doing extremely well in AAA. Before anyone says Leo Mazzone, this guy had nasty stuff when he pitched for the Cubs. He fits the White Sox situation perfectly ... a guy who can spot start or relieve.  I would be very happy if this happens, it would be an excellent deal for the White Sox.  And he'd be the long man for the bullpen which the sox don't have. At the very least he can eat some innings to keep the bullpen fresh for the playoffs, someone who can go 3 innings during blowouts so the other guys don't have to be used.  Yet he also has a good upside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beck72 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Cruz has been starting in AAA, going 22 innings in 4 games. He'd certainly be stretched out for long relief Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubs Suck23 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Has any reports in Chicago came out yet of what team Shingo is going to Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubs Suck23 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Cruz can also start if Hernandez goes down again... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 I heard the same things about Viz too and I wasn't impressed then either. I've also seen alot more of Cruz and was never impressed with his control and this yr it's even worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Actually Shingo for Cruz makes a ton of sense. Shingo's not being used at all anyways right now, Cruz could come in and be our long reliever and a spot starter if needed. That would actually be an awesome move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Cruz would be a really nice option, of course I tend to think despite his recent struggles with the A's that he has more value than Shingo. Â However, this deal would make some sense. 1st off Cruz has proven himself to be a pretty good middle-reliever, despite his struggles this year. He also seems to have gotten himself back in gear down in the minors. Â Secondly, if the Sox want to deal Cruz I think you'd have at least some teams quite interested because he has a great arm and has had minor league sucess. Third, this gives the Sox great depth (almost like the Day move) if they aren't able to pull the big time deal and El Duque goes down (I dont' think the Sox want to call up Bmac the rest of the year...they want him to get comfortable down in AAA). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 I heard the same things about Viz too and I wasn't impressed then either. I've also seen alot more of Cruz and was never impressed with his control and this yr it's even worse. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Â Did you see what he did for the Braves last year, and did you see his stuff with the Cubs? This guy is a great fit. I am not crapping on Takatsu because I value his contributions over the last year and half, but Shingo is not suited to be what the White Sox need ... a long relief/spot starter guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 10:25 AM) If you can get Juan Cruz for Shingo, you do it every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Look at Cruz's stats from Atlanta last year, plus he's doing extremely well in AAA. Before anyone says Leo Mazzone, this guy had nasty stuff when he pitched for the Cubs. He fits the White Sox situation perfectly ... a guy who can spot start or relieve.  I would be very happy if this happens, it would be an excellent deal for the White Sox. A little hijack of the thread here but Jim since I'm on quickman's s*** list now look at what he said to me on page 32 of the last trade thread: I remember, want another one...Indians will take three of four and this board will be clamoring for a trade.  Good to see his predictions are still right on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 A little hijack of the thread here but Jim since I'm on quickman's s*** list now look at what he said to me on page 32 of the last trade thread: I remember, want another one...Indians will take three of four and this board will be clamoring for a trade. Good to see his predictions are still right on <{POST_SNAPBACK}>  His whole gig is reverse psychology, that's why he always says "they're done, this game is over" when the Sox fall behind. I don't understand why he does that.  Then again, he is not what one would call a normal human being. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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