nitetrain8601 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 I personally don't want Cruz. His control has never been good minus last year(with the Magical Leo Mazzone). If you say forget about that, then look at his stats for years after and before that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Juan Cruz looks less like Pedro Martinez and more like Ramon Ortiz. However, he is very enticing. I long thought the CUbs gave up on him too early. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
upnorthsox Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 27.00 era vs Anaheim  18.00 era vs Yankees  10.50 era vs Texas  22.50 era vs Toronto  9.00 era at Comiskey  14.40 era at the Coliseum  What about these #'s make you want to trade for him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 I do realize its a difference, but he was one of the better relievers last season in all of baseball. And IIRC he finished the year strong as well. Â No one else is Leo, but I'd like to think he's gotten things straightened out. Â Personally though, I'm like some who aren't exactly for this deal, but I guess it makes sense, especially if the Sox plan on keeping Jenks or whoever they get at the major league level. Â Still, I wouldn't be expecting a top prospect or anything like that, rather it will be a AAA prospect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitetrain8601 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 11:06 AM) I do realize its a difference, but he was one of the better relievers last season in all of baseball. And IIRC he finished the year strong as well. No one else is Leo, but I'd like to think he's gotten things straightened out.  Personally though, I'm like some who aren't exactly for this deal, but I guess it makes sense, especially if the Sox plan on keeping Jenks or whoever they get at the major league level.  Still, I wouldn't be expecting a top prospect or anything like that, rather it will be a AAA prospect.  Again, you bring up his stats from last year which were with Leo. He hasn't been good without Leo. Nothing leads me to believe that Cruz will become the pitcher of last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Punch and Judy Garland Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 I guess numbers are everything and tools are nothing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rowand44 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 11:10 AM) Again, you bring up his stats from last year which were with Leo. He hasn't been good without Leo. Nothing leads me to believe that Cruz will become the pitcher of last year. Cruz was good in his brief stint in 01, very good in 02, bad in 03 but he was jerked around like no other that year. He was awesome last year, started off poorly this year for Oakland but has pitched well in the minors, I'd take my chances with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JimH Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Cruz was good in his brief stint in 01, very good in 02, bad in 03 but he was jerked around like no other that year. He was awesome last year, started off poorly this year for Oakland but has pitched well in the minors, I'd take my chances with him. <{POST_SNAPBACK}>  This pretty much sums up my view. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Shingo for Cruz? I'd do that deal yesterday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 I'd prefer not to trade Shingo for 3 reasons: Â 1.) He has turned it around a bit lately. Â 2.) Why do we need to trade him for a prospect unless the prospect is involved in a bigger deal? Â 3.) I have his jersey andI don't want it to bee a $200 waste. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tadahito15 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 Rotoworld has the Dodgers as the most likely suitors for Shingo... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubs Suck23 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 The host here in SF thinks that Shingo will becoming to the Giants as part of the Schmidt trade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 12:53 PM) 3.) I have his jersey andI don't want it to bee a $200 waste. we all know this is the only reason you don't want him gone i was smart and got buehrle for my authentic one in '03 (w/ the ASG patch on it, woo) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubs Suck23 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 QUOTE(Tadahito15 @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 11:57 AM) Rotoworld has the Dodgers as the most likely suitors for Shingo... Â Hopefully we can get Edwin Jackson in return Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 QUOTE(Soxnbears01 @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 01:58 PM) we all know this is the only reason you don't want him gone i was smart and got buehrle for my authentic one in '03 (w/ the ASG patch on it, woo) Nooooooooo. BTW, CS23, I would like that a lot! Any word on others involved??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnB Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 is it possible this move is just to free up a roster spot for duque? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 QUOTE(Cubs Suck23 @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 02:00 PM) Hopefully we can get Edwin Jackson in return BWAHAAHAHAHAHA! Edwin Jackson....For Shingo! HAHAHAHAHA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Critic Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 QUOTE(JimH @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 05:59 AM) West Coast Teams, possibilities for Shingo: I agree with the D-Backs being a potential destination, although they've fallen off lately.  San Diego: in first place, bullpen is their strength and it's stacked.  Angels: highly doubt the two teams would trade with one another  Dodgers: possibility, but they're slumping badly and are basically out of it.  Oakland: just made some deals to bolster their pitching.  Giants: very far out of it, but the two teams have been scouting one another.  Mariners: totally out of it, but the affinity for Asian players can't rule them out.  I would have to say the Diamondbacks. Add to the Mariners speculation the fact that they seem to be happy with the returns on the Freddy trade, and therefore they'll trust KW in deal situations, and I think they could be a dark horse for Shingo. But I agree that AZ makes the most sense. I will definitely miss Shingo if he is dealt. He was my highlight from last year, and he seems like a great guy and great teammate. IMO, dealing Shingo shouldn't negatively affect future Asian acquisitions. Players of all races are traded all the time. Part of the business, and I think everyone accepts that fact. Shingo has been shown a lot of respect and fan acclaim during his time here. The fact that he was allowed to struggle past a pretty terrible spring training to become the closer in 2004 underscores that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 I think people are getting their expectations for what we'd get in return for Shingo a little too high. We're throwing around the name of some of the top prospects in their particular organization. If it was Juan Cruz, I guarantee you that would have been specified in the article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubs Suck23 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 12:00 PM) Â Â Â Â Â Â Â BWAHAAHAHAHAHA! Edwin Jackson....For Shingo! HAHAHAHAHA Â Â I can dream about Edwin Jackson coming to the Sox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWSGuy406 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 (edited) QUOTE(Cubs Suck23 @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 06:00 PM) Hopefully we can get Edwin Jackson in return  Edwin Jackson has really dropped in his prospect status. He's walked 44 in just over 80 IP, and has only K'ed 52 (between Jacksonville and Las Vegas). Is he hurt? 'Cause, those are not very impressive numbers at all...  And, I should say, that until Edwin regains his 'stuff' and his control, I'd rather have Shingo -- for our bullpen use or otherwise.  Wow -- he and Greg Miller seemed to have had a rought year or so. Edited July 16, 2005 by CWSGuy406 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFan1 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 QUOTE(Cubs Suck23 @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 02:03 PM) I can dream about Edwin Jackson coming to the Sox Yes you can, and if what CWSGuy said is true, than maybehe could be here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cubs Suck23 Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 12:05 PM) Edwin Jackson has really dropped in his prospect status. He's walked 44 in just over 80 IP, and has only K'ed 52 (between Jacksonville and Las Vegas). Is he hurt? 'Cause, those are not very impressive numbers at all...   He had arm problems last year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwerty Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 QUOTE(Soxbadger @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 11:14 AM) Shingo has a no trade clause which they fail to mention. Â Please find me this no trade clause. Â I use several resources for contracts and none of them mention his ''no trade clause''... which is always mentioned on here but no one can find. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
santo=dorf Posted July 16, 2005 Share Posted July 16, 2005 QUOTE(qwerty @ Jul 16, 2005 -> 01:25 PM) Please find me this no trade clause. I use several resources for contracts and none of them mention his ''no trade clause''... which is always mentioned on here but no one can find. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I recall him having a limited no trade clause last year (to like 10 teams,) and them some people were saying there was a clause that invoke a full no trade clause for 2005 if his option was picked up. But like you said, I have never seen it in a story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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