Chisoxfn, what do make of the umpire's clenching his fist?  Why did he do that if it wasn't an out?  I know the ball was trapped.  My question is in regard to the umpire's motion.

I cna't say for sure. Only the ump knows what he was thinking. Umps sometimes make different signals...that was the case and I definately can see the Angels perspective of it. At the same time, I saw Paul already throw the ball out to the mound before the strikeout sign was given so what does it matter. Its not like Paul was motivated based on that call, imo.

 

I should add, this is a judgement thing, so by no means am i necessarily right. Just my 2 cents on the issue and I agree with Kruk and Reynolds.

Sorry guys, but nobody will convince me that he didn't catch it. But we take it!

 

Brian, ask yourself this question. If the ball didn't hit the ground, why was it that it landed high inside the catcher's glove? If it didn't hit the ground, it would have been caught by the lower part of the glove.

Chisoxfn, what do make of the umpire's clenching his fist?  Why did he do that if it wasn't an out?  I know the ball was trapped.  My question is in regard to the umpire's motion.

 

 

To me thats the real issue here. The ball clearly bounced but the ump made the same strikeout call he made all game long. If anything else there was confusion about the mechanics of his call.

 

Bottom line. Josh Paul should have just tagged AJ. If there was any doubt whatsoever you just tag him and that ends the doubt.

I can't say the replay was very clear. The Fox framerate was pretty low and the lowest picture of the ball you can still see some color of Josh Paul's glove underneath it. It's slightly darker than the color of the dirt and makes me think he caught it in the webbing. I would need to see a higher quality replay and still doubt whether it could ever be called "clear."

Brian, ask yourself this question.  If the ball didn't hit the ground, why was it that it landed high inside the catcher's glove?  If it didn't hit the ground, it would have been caught by the lower part of the glove.

 

It was caught in the web of the catchers mit. It didn't "noticeably" bounce up.

 

I'm not gonna worry what others think of us cuz of the way we won. I'm takingthe W and running with it.

Its pretty obvious that he caught it and kind of embarrassing that people are trying to say that it was trapped. There was a good inch between the ball and the ground. The ball doesnt move up at all. It kind of looks like that because he smashes the end of his glove into the ground as he catches it so his glove is moving down. Even if the ball does move up a little in the glove, it still didn't hit the dirt which is all that matters. The ball was caught, it was a close play yes, but also an obvious one, however.

 

It was a strikeout, we caught a break, we got the win, its a good day.

Chisoxfn, what do make of the umpire's clenching his fist?  Why did he do that if it wasn't an out?  I know the ball was trapped.  My question is in regard to the umpire's motion.

 

Umps do the clenching of the fist or extend their arm many times on a swinging third strike. That of course does not mean the batter is always out.

No f***ing way.  Watch it in slow mo from the front angle.  It CLEARLY bounces.

 

THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY'RE ARGUING!!!!!!

 

Sheesh. We don't know what was said, but it's absolutely pathetic seeing some people defend this call like they KNOW it was called correctly.

 

We don't know what was said from the umpire.

 

I'm sorry, I just think it's extremely pathetic to see some people act like they know it was the correct call (sorry for sounding like a broken record). I'm not saying they made the right call, or the wrong call, but GMAB...

I believe that the ball was trapped.

 

But I do not believe anyone would be willing to bet significant amount of money either way.

 

It was a judgement call, you have to play it out.

 

Paul flipped the ball before the ump even made the final strike call. There is no excuse for that, and if it happened to the Sox, I would be pissed at the catcher for not completing the play.

 

SB

Edited October 13, 200520 yr by Soxbadger

THAT'S NOT WHAT THEY'RE ARGUING!!!!!! 

 

Sheesh.  We don't know what was said, but it's absolutely pathetic seeing some people defend this call like they KNOW it was called correctly.

 

We don't know what was said from the umpire. 

 

I'm sorry, I just think it's extremely pathetic to see some people act like they know it was the correct call (sorry for sounding like a broken record).  I'm not saying they made the right call, or the wrong call, but GMAB...

I think its indecisive. I see some saying it was 100% one way and others saying it was 100% another way. That right there tells me it was totally questionable. I don't think we'll know for sure, but I thought it hit the dirt. Now we can argue the umps stuff as much as possible.

I believe that the ball was trapped.

 

But I do not believe anyone would be willing to bet significant amount of money either way.

 

It was a judgement call, you have to play it out.

 

Paul flipped the ball before the ump even made the final strike call. There is no excuse for that, and if it happened to the Sox, I would be pissed at the catcher for not completing the play.

 

SB

 

 

Yup and thats exactly why the BBTN was ripping into Josh Paul and rightfully so.

Nuke they are exactly right.

 

Had Paul saw the ump make the alleged "out" call, then they would have a valid argument that they relied on it.

 

But Paul threw the ball out when the only call the ump had made was the "swing and miss" call.

 

With out audio it is impossible to tell the whole story, but I think that AJ heard something that indicated he was not out yet. And by the time that indication came, Paul had already thrown the ball so the Angels were committed to the "he caught the ball" story.

 

I think the replay shows that AJ started running after the ball was already out of Paul's hand.

 

SB

It was caught in the web of the catchers mit. It didn't "noticeably" bounce up.

 

I'm not gonna worry what others think of us cuz of the way we won. I'm takingthe W and running with it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You must have missed the zoomed-in frame-by-frame replay then. The wide angle zoomed-out replay made it look like Paul gloved the ball cleanly.

Its pretty obvious that he caught it and kind of embarrassing that people are trying to say that it was trapped.  There was a good inch between the ball and the ground.  The ball doesnt move up at all.  It kind of looks like that because he smashes the end of his glove into the ground as he catches it so his glove is moving down. Even if the ball does move up a little in the glove, it still didn't hit the dirt which is all that matters.  The ball was caught, it was a close play yes, but also an obvious one, however.

 

It was a strikeout, we caught a break, we got the win, its a good day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Did you see the zoomed-in frame-by-frame replay?

I think my argument is that Paul threw the ball out to the mound before the 2nd signal by the umpire. I think that right there is interesting, because had he waited I think they have a better argument.

 

I hate the questions being asked. Some are so bias (on both sides) and I have yet to see any clear evidence for the it was clearly caught side, imo. Not that I'm 100% that it hit the dirt, but I'm hard pressed to believe that it wasn't trapped.

 

We'll see though, the ump sounds relatively accurate and he had been doing the same strikeout call the entire game.

Nuke they are exactly right.

 

Had Paul saw the ump make the alleged "out" call, then they would have a valid argument that they relied on it.

 

But Paul threw the ball out when the only call the ump had made was the "swing and miss" call.

 

With out audio it is impossible to tell the whole story, but I think that AJ heard something that indicated he was not out yet. And by the time that indication came, Paul had already thrown the ball so the Angels were committed to the "he caught the ball" story.

 

I think the replay shows that AJ started running after the ball was already out of Paul's hand.

 

SB

 

AJ evidentely never heard the ump call him out so he ran with it. I gotta give him props for the heads up play. Whats the worst that could happen? They call him out again?

 

NICE WORK AJ!

Did you see the zoomed-in frame-by-frame replay?

 

 

Obviously not.

Did you see the zoomed-in frame-by-frame replay?

Where'd you see that from?? Just wondering cause I still have not seen it.

Too bad umps don't have press conferences.

The other umps seem to be backing the ump, but I guess that should be expected. I just find it intersting that ball said he heard the ump say something and AJ said he heard nothing.

which is exactly the reason the catcher should know to tag the batter/throw to first just to make sure, especially in a game this crucial.

 

 

Exactly!

Too bad umps don't have press conferences.

Umm...it was just on.

Where'd you see that from??  Just wondering cause I still have not seen it.

 

 

They only ran it on ESPN about 20 times since the end of the game.

They just replayed it again on Comcast Sportsnet... I'm sure it will be on again later tonight.

I think my argument is that Paul threw the ball out to the mound before the 2nd signal by the umpire.

I 100% agree with you and that's not getting mentioned too much. The replay obviously shows him tosssing that ball, or at least starting to, before the fist in the air.

 

This is the crux of Kruk's argument on ESPN, he is basically saying in that situation Josh Paul cannot take it for granted and should have tagged AJ right away or asked the ump...