QUOTE(RockRaines @ Dec 9, 2005 -> 04:12 PM)

Stop gap?  Stop gap?  Keep saying that in your head, and then picture Arnie Munoz, Felix Diaz and Danny Wright in your head.  Calulate how many wins that loses us and come back to me.  Our team is stronger and better with our pitching intact, than it would be if we traded one of them for a little more offense.  Apparently nobody watched us win the WS last year?  Now everyone wants some boppers and we can "fill in" some SP

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Would you still say no if it was a guarantee that Garland is not coming back next year?

 

You lose Garland now and McCarthy steps in the rotation.

I'd rather see a report saying Baltimore is shopping him before suggesting any trade idea.

i wasnt confident with him before last season either.  but he held it together well enough.  ALSO remember that if the Count is as good this year as he was the end of last, he should make up for the slip in Duque.

 

beginning of last year Duque was unhittable and the Count was the Count.  Now reverse it and you end up with the same net wins/losses theoretically

 

I dont agree that A) Duque held together real well last year, B ) Duque was unhittable at the beginning of last year, and C) Duque and Counts numbers are reversable for the same net wins/losses.

 

The only similarity Count and Duque had last year was that they were from Cuba. Duque spent way too much time on the DL collecting money for me to trust him as being a stopgap next year. He also wasnt close to unhittable. Duque had a couple of great games in between mediocre and bad outings. Watching him pitch was like watching paint dry.

Would you still say no if it was a guarantee that Garland is not coming back next year?

 

You lose Garland now and McCarthy steps in the rotation.

I think Mc cARTHY can replace garland but I don't think El Duque is a solid 5th pitcher. Cotts could be groomed into the 5th starter but we would need a reliever to replace him.

Stop gap?  Stop gap?  Keep saying that in your head, and then picture Arnie Munoz, Felix Diaz and Danny Wright in your head.  Calulate how many wins that loses us and come back to me.  Our team is stronger and better with our pitching intact, than it would be if we traded one of them for a little more offense.  Apparently nobody watched us win the WS last year?  Now everyone wants some boppers and we can "fill in" some SP

 

Why picture Munoz, Diaz & Wright? El Duque would be the 5th starter, not any of them (Wright is cooked anyway). So it doesn't lose us any wins. That's my calculation. You only need someone if one of the 5 get hurt. Even then, you can skip starts to avoid putting too many starts in the hands of a replacement.

 

The alternative is to keep 6 starting pitchers on the team. That's just dumb at the end of the day. At least one will be unhappy, and going to a 6 man rotation really isn't an option. You are taking away starts from your best pitchers to give to your worst.

 

So if you have 6 starting pitchers, you trade one of them. The logical person to trade is El Duque. However, he won't get much in return at this point.

 

The point of this whole thread is what it would take to get Tejada (if they even want to trade him). Moving Garland makes sense because the Sox made a run at re-signing him and failed. He's a free agent after 2006 and I can't see the Sox having 4 $9-$10 million guys in the rotation in '07. In fact, I think Garland probably gets $11-$12 million anyway if was a free agent today.

 

So the Sox are probably going to have to replace Garland after '06 anyway. In '06, they have someone in place - El Duque - and can plan for '07. They'll have to plan for '07 anyway; might as well get value for Garland in the mean time. If the value you get is Tejada, who is a plus plus offensive shortstop (and very good defensively, too), you have to take it. Because the Sox are likely to get nothing out of Garland after '06 anyway.

I dont agree that A) Duque held together real well last year, B ) Duque was unhittable at the beginning of last year, and C) Duque and Counts numbers are reversable for the same net wins/losses.

 

The only similarity Count and Duque had last year was that they were from Cuba.  Duque spent way too much time on the DL collecting money for me to trust him as being a stopgap next year.  He also wasnt close to unhittable.  Duque had a couple of great games in between mediocre and bad outings.  Watching him pitch was like watching paint dry.

 

A) never said he held together WELL - i said well enough

B ) His ERA was under 3 for the first couple months of the season.

C) Never said Duque and Counts numbers were reversable and i never said they were similar. I said essentially that if you put Duques numbers at about a 4-5 ERA for the whole season and Counts at his 2-3, it evens out over the course of a year

A) never said he held together WELL - i said well enough

B ) His ERA was under 3 for the first couple months of the season.

C) Never said Duque and Counts numbers were reversable and i never said they were similar.  I said essentially that if you put Duques numbers at about a 4-5 ERA for the whole season and Counts at his 2-3, it evens out over the course of a year

Yes, his ERA was under 3 in April. However, his ERA in May was 6.19. And in April, when he posted that lower ERA, he still tossed up a WHIP of about 1.65. His ERA in June ballooned over 7. His lowest after that was during his 3 starts in July, right after he had a month or so off on the DL to rest, and in that month for 3 starts his ERA was 3.86. After that, his monthly ERA's went right through the roof again.

 

He got through the month of April strictly on guile, he had a decent fastball for a month right after he came back from the DL, but then he wore right out again.

Yes, his ERA was under 3 in April.  However, his ERA in May was 6.19.  And in April, when he posted that lower ERA, he still tossed up a WHIP of about 1.65.  His ERA in June ballooned over 7.  His lowest after that was during his 3 starts in July, right after he had a month or so off on the DL to rest, and in that month for 3 starts his ERA was 3.86.  After that, his monthly ERA's went right through the roof again.

 

He got through the month of April strictly on guile, he had a decent fastball for a month right after he came back from the DL, but then he wore right out again.

 

didnt know the exact splits. i dont want you guys thinking i'm a duque backer cuz honestly i think he blows - but if it came down to who would be the 5th starter, it would be him until he couldnt possibly do it any longer

didnt know the exact splits.  i dont want you guys thinking i'm a duque backer cuz honestly i think he blows - but if it came down to who would be the 5th starter, it would be him until he couldnt possibly do it any longer

I think he could be used as a 5th starter effectively for maybe 2 months this season...and that's if we spaced those months out. He was 2 years off of surgery last year and still couldn't hold things together for more than a month or so at a time. If we were to decide to use a 6th starter for a few stretches just to give MB and FG some extra rest because of the World Baseball thingy, he could do nicely for that, and I think he'd do well in the long-relief "Pitch every 8-10 days" role that we seem to give to our 12th bullpen guy, but I just can't imagine a scenario where you could count on him to be a starting pitcher for a full season unless basically Jesus comes back and touches his arm. His body just doesn't seem strong enough any more.

Why picture Munoz, Diaz & Wright?  El Duque would be the 5th starter, not any of them (Wright is cooked anyway).  So it doesn't lose us any wins.  That's my calculation.  You only need someone if one of the 5 get hurt.  Even then, you can skip starts to avoid putting too many starts in the hands of a replacement.

 

 

Becuase those are the players who filled in for us as 5th starter when we didnt think it was important. Then we finished in 2nd place. Then we put together a rotation with 5 proven starters, got rid of boppers and brought in defensive players, including Uribe who is underrated at this point, and we won the world series. Now people are drooling at the prospect of trading a little pitching to bring back those boppers again. I say why go in reverse to the way that didnt work?

hey dude read my posts before you say s*** ok?  thanks.

Easy fella, who said I was talking to you? I dont recall quoting you. Thanks.

Easy fella, who said I was talking to you?  I dont recall quoting you.  Thanks.

 

aight kool, just it'd be clearer if, when you commented with "yous" in it that you quote someone so theres no confusion

Becuase those are the players who filled in for us as 5th starter when we didnt think it was important.  Then we finished in 2nd place.  Then we put together a rotation with 5 proven starters, got rid of boppers and brought in defensive players,  including Uribe who is underrated at this point, and we won the world series.  Now people are drooling at the prospect of trading a little pitching to bring back those boppers again.  I say why go in reverse to the way that didnt work?

Actually...we filled it in with not only 5 proven starters, but we also made sure to have a very, very solid kid to back them up. So we had 6 starters total.

Tejada admits he gave Palmeir a B-12 vitamin shot, but says that he had it checked out by MLB first and MLB said it was clean.  Believe who you will.  I don't know if I believe either of them.

...and didn't he also win the HR derby a few years ago?

Edited December 9, 200520 yr by LosMediasBlancas

Wow. Some tool on rotoworld makes a crack about Tejada quitting on his team and you all jump on it like it's gospel. The dude has had a very solid team player reputation for his entire career. Don't be so easily swayed by some pissed off rotisserie player that wasn't happy with tejada's production last year.

aight kool, just it'd be clearer if, when you commented with "yous" in it that you quote someone so theres no confusion

What, am I from Jersey all of a sudden???

...and didn't he also win the HR derby a few years ago?

And wasnt he on the same team as Canseco???

What, am I from Jersey all of a sudden???

 

haha i resent that! lol

And wasnt he on the same team as Canseco???

And Giambi.

 

And across the bay from a guy named Bonds.

 

And on the same team as Billy Koch, for that matter.

Tejada isn't a juicer.

Tejada isn't a juicer.

 

you have proof?

Tejada isn't a juicer.

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I wouldn't bet on it. Just look at his puffy, overgrown face. He looks just like Sosa.

you have proof?

 

Show proof that he was. Innocent until proven guilty in this country.

Show proof that he was.  Innocent until proven guilty in this country.

 

Canseco did say that Tejada was a juicer. Does that make him guilty? NO. However, it does make you suspicious.

Canseco did say that Tejada was a juicer.  Does that make him guilty?  NO. However, it does make you suspicious.

 

Hmmm. I missed that little nugget of info.