http://www.cleveland.com/politics/plaindea...9650.xml&coll=2

http://www.cleveland.com/politics/plaindea...9650.xml&coll=2

 

I think it's a good idea that EVERY person have some legit form of I.D. Poor people or old folks can get identification. The Ohio gov't should implement some programs that facilitate this for people who have trouble getting around, for example.

I think it's a good idea that EVERY person have some legit form of I.D. Poor people or old folks can get identification.  The Ohio gov't should implement some programs that facilitate this for people who have trouble getting around, for example.

 

especially after all of the fraud allegations, it is a good step in the right direction.

especially after all of the fraud allegations, it is a good step in the right direction.

 

Considering it's unconstitutional and a form of a poll tax, it's horrible. But I've been hearing that this would be happening in Ohio just in time for the election, so this doesn't surprise me.

Considering it's unconstitutional and a form of a poll tax, it's horrible. But I've been hearing that this would be happening in Ohio just in time for the election, so this doesn't surprise me.

 

 

Rediculous. So you're in favor of the status quo which is a system rife with vote fraud. You no longer have a cause to complain about rigged elections if you are against measures taken to stop it.

The rigged elections have more to do with machine distribution and what's inside the machines than who's voting in Ohio from what I understand.

Considering it's unconstitutional and a form of a poll tax, it's horrible. But I've been hearing that this would be happening in Ohio just in time for the election, so this doesn't surprise me.

 

So how would you prevent voter fraud then?

I am personally fine with IDs required for voters, just like I am OK with FOID cards. BUT, in both cases, they are IDs required to obtain something given to citizens by Constitutional right. Therefore, they should ONLY be required if they are completely, 100% free.

 

So, if Ohio wants this thing to pass the courts, they would be better protected if they found a way to provide state IDs free of charge. That would also be the right thing to do. You cannot charge for a right.

Rediculous.  So you're in favor of the status quo which is a system rife with vote fraud.  You no longer have a cause to complain about rigged elections if you are against measures taken to stop it.

 

No, I'm all for this thing called equal rights, which just so happens to be protected under the constitution. If you cannot see that this is a shadowed poll tax, you're blind.

You're right. Make the ID free of charge. It's sort of like charging for a Passport. After 2007, to freely travel outside the US, you gotta pay $70+ for a passport. It's good for ten years, but its still a travel tax of sorts.

You're right. Make the ID free of charge. It's sort of like charging for a Passport. After 2007, to freely travel outside the US, you gotta pay $70+ for a passport. It's good for ten years, but its still a travel tax of sorts.

 

Why wouldn't you pay for a passport? It involves processing and research right? Why should someone else pay taxes to subsidize a persons travel outside of the US?

Why wouldn't you pay for a passport?  It involves processing and research right?  Why should someone else pay taxes to subsidize a persons travel outside of the US?

 

Agreed. Travelling outside the US is not a US-granted right.

 

Voting, on the other hand, is. If you require IDs, they'd better the heck be free, or else you are charging for a right.

Agreed.  Travelling outside the US is not a US-granted right.

 

Voting, on the other hand, is.  If you require IDs, they'd better the heck be free, or else you are charging for a right.

 

 

Why not just require people to show a photo ID when they go in to vote? A drivers license would get it done and its certainly universal enough already.

 

 

Oh wait, I forgot. You cant make people show ID when they vote because thats racist. Thats Jesse Jackson speak for "we want black people to vote multiple times for Democratic candidates and if you try to stop us from committing this fraud you're a bigot".

 

:rolly

Edited February 2, 200620 yr by NUKE_CLEVELAND

Why not just require people to show a photo ID when they go in to vote?  A drivers license would get it done and its certainly universal enough already.

Oh wait,  I forgot.  You cant make people show ID when they vote because thats racist.  Thats Jesse Jackson speak for "we want black people to vote multiple times for Democratic candidates and if you try to stop us from committing this fraud you're a bigot".

 

:rolly

 

You've missed the point.

 

Driver's license is fine. State ID is fine. Whatever works. But there MUST be some sort of state ID available that is free, or else you are expecting people to pay for a Constitutionally-granted right. There is no logical argument that can be made for that to be OK.

 

As for the "racist" thing, I didn't even hint at that. Race is irrelevant to me. Is it to you?

You've missed the point.

 

Driver's license is fine.  State ID is fine.  Whatever works.  But there MUST be some sort of state ID available that is free, or else you are expecting people to pay for a Constitutionally-granted right.  There is no logical argument that can be made for that to be OK.

 

As for the "racist" thing, I didn't even hint at that.  Race is irrelevant to me.  Is it to you?

 

 

I was making a seperate point. I understood what you said just fine and I agree that we dont need to make a special ID that costs people money, especially when a simple photo ID gets it done.

 

 

Problem is you have idiots like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton crying their eyes out charging racism just because people want voters to show ANY form of ID when they go in to vote.

Edited February 2, 200620 yr by NUKE_CLEVELAND

I was making a seperate point.  I understood what you said just fine and I agree that we dont need to make a special ID that costs people money, especially when a simple photo ID gets it done.

 

What I am saying is that there needs to be a state ID that is free. No need for a special ID, yes, I agree. But further, a driver's license or state ID (or both) need to be available free of charge. We cannot charge for a right. if you expect people to show an ID that costs money to vote, then you have enacted a poll tax, which is the worst kind of classist discrimination.

 

Do you think paying for your Constitutional rights is OK? Should you have to pay to speak your mind or practice your religious beliefs?

I was making a seperate point.  I understood what you said just fine and I agree that we dont need to make a special ID that costs people money, especially when a simple photo ID gets it done. 

Problem is you have idiots like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton crying their eyes out charging racism just because people want voters to show ANY form of ID when they go in to vote.

 

 

If everyone has to show ID in order to vote, then I can't follow their logic as to how this could be perceived as a racist motion.

 

Of course, considering the source, logic may not have come into play at all.

I was making a seperate point.  I understood what you said just fine and I agree that we dont need to make a special ID that costs people money, especially when a simple photo ID gets it done. 

Problem is you have idiots like Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton crying their eyes out charging racism just because people want voters to show ANY form of ID when they go in to vote.

 

 

yeah jesse and al are the real problem here.

What I am saying is that there needs to be a state ID that is free.  No need for a special ID, yes, I agree.  But further, a driver's license or state ID (or both) need to be available free of charge.  We cannot charge for a right.  if you expect people to show an ID that costs money to vote, then you have enacted a poll tax, which is the worst kind of classist discrimination.

 

Do you think paying for your Constitutional rights is OK?  Should you have to pay to speak your mind or practice your religious beliefs?

 

 

couldnt agree more. some people dont have id's. plain and simple. to require them to go out and spend $ to get one, just so they can fulfill their constitutional right, is insane. just think, if you don't pay with checks in the store (which few people do anymore), appear to be older than 21, and don't drive... do you really need a Drivers License/ID?

If we pass a law requiring everyone to show ID when they vote, in the name of prohibiting fraud, then we also need to pass a law that requires the manufacturers of any computer used in an election to have open-source software, accessible by all interested parties.

 

Fraud, after all, cuts both ways.

couldnt agree more. some people dont have id's. plain and simple. to require them to go out and spend $ to get one, just so they can fulfill their constitutional right, is insane. just think, if you don't pay with checks in the store (which few people do anymore), appear to be older than 21, and don't drive... do you really need a Drivers License/ID?

 

 

People are all up in arms about a national ID card infringing on privacy so what else can we do?

If we pass a law requiring everyone to show ID when they vote, in the name of prohibiting fraud, then we also need to pass a law that requires the manufacturers of any computer used in an election to have open-source software, accessible by all interested parties.

 

Fraud, after all, cuts both ways.

 

^^^^^^^^^

 

True dat.

 

And before anyone screams "hackers!", remember these are non-networked machines, with very rudimentary I/O ports and simplistic code. Nothing there to hack, no software that can execute foreign code. Nothing to hack with.

couldnt agree more. some people dont have id's. plain and simple. to require them to go out and spend $ to get one, just so they can fulfill their constitutional right, is insane.

 

Given that people need to pay money for food and shelter to fulfill their right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, I don't think that asking for $30 or $40 one-time processing charge for a national ID is a big deal.

Given that people need to pay money for food and shelter to fulfill their right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, I don't think that asking for $30 or $40 one-time processing charge for a national ID is a big deal.

 

OK.

 

How about $20 to go to Church? $30 to speak your mind about a politician? $50 to walk down the street?

 

It's a major tenet of law in this country that RIGHTS are not to be paid for. That's why poll taxes were struck down. PRIVILEGES (and driving is, BTW, a privilege in the legal sense, not a right), can be charged for.

Agreed.  Travelling outside the US is not a US-granted right.

 

Voting, on the other hand, is.  If you require IDs, they'd better the heck be free, or else you are charging for a right.

 

But does a citizen of the US have the right to return the United States?

 

In 2007, a US Citizen will not be required to show a passport to leave the US and enter Mexico, Canada, and several other countries. However to re-enter the country, its required.

 

So I guess "travel freely" was the wrong phrase, "enter freely" would have been more appropriate.