soooo...

[kapkomet]

If you take the combined earnings (not revenues) of Exxon, Chevron, and DutchShell from 2005 ALONE, it could fund NASA, the Justice Department, and the No Child Left Behind Act this year - and these are some massive programs in our government today. That's sad, isn't it?

[NorthSideSox72]

If you take the combined earnings (not tevenues) of Exxon, Chevron, and DutchShell from 2005 ALONE, it could fund NASA, the Justice Department, and the No Child Left Behind Act this year - and these are some massive programs in our government today.  That's sad, isn't it?

 

They could also put enough money into alternative energy research that we'd very quickly be able to implement non-oil energy generation in lots of aspects of our infrastructure.

 

If one of those companies gets smart, they'll plow back a bunch of those earnings and do just that. Why? Because they'd ensure that they'd not only be first and best in those areas, but they'd guarantee their long term future in the energy markets beyond just oil. It's smart for so many reasons. Which is why I can't understand why they don't do more of it.

[kapkomet]

They could also put enough money into alternative energy research that we'd very quickly be able to implement non-oil energy generation in lots of aspects of our infrastructure.

 

If one of those companies gets smart, they'll plow back a bunch of those earnings and do just that.  Why?  Because they'd ensure that they'd not only be first and best in those areas, but they'd guarantee their long term future in the energy markets beyond just oil.  It's smart for so many reasons.  Which is why I can't understand why they don't do more of it.

Actually, the oil companies hold the patents to a lot of the "new" technology, which should answer your own question as to why it has not been explored more.

[NorthSideSox72]

Actually, the oil companies hold the patents to a lot of the "new" technology, which should answer your own question as to why it has not been explored more.

 

Interesting. I didn't realize that. That could make things dicey. They are making so much off oil, why use the new stuff just yet? Might as well wait it out.

 

That means the only way it really gets going is if they have competition. Other companies would need to build their own versions of PV solar cells, wind power generators, ethanol refineries, hydrogen power condensers, etc. Let's hope some of Bush's $10B+22% goes to companies outside the big oilers (I'm not holding my breath).

[kapkomet]

Interesting.  I didn't realize that.  That could make things dicey.  They are making so much off oil, why use the new stuff just yet?  Might as well wait it out.

 

That means the only way it really gets going is if they have competition.  Other companies would need to build their own versions of PV solar cells, wind power generators, ethanol refineries, hydrogen power condensers, etc.  Let's hope some of Bush's $10B+22% goes to companies outside the big oilers (I'm not holding my breath).

Your premise is exactly right. That's exactly why we haven't seen a good deal more competition. Now, don't get me wrong, the oil companies don't own all of them, but they do own a good deal of them.

[mr_genius]

Actually, the oil companies hold the patents to a lot of the "new" technology, which should answer your own question as to why it has not been explored more.

 

 

i know, and that really really sucks.

[SpringfieldFan]

I don't know if the patents reasoning completely explains the oil companies' behavior. Patents don't last forever, so if I were an oil company, I wouldn't be waiting until they run out before I persue the innovations. Also, they don't necessarily apply outside of the U.S. do they? The possibility of another nation leap-frogging me on a new technology idea would be a major incentive to me. In fact, I heard a piece of a story last week on the radio about Iceland taking the lead in researching clean hydrogen power. If I am Exxon, I don't sit on my butt right now, regardless of my earnings...or my patents.

 

SFF

[NorthSideSox72]

I don't know if the patents reasoning completely explains the oil companies' behavior.  Patents don't last forever, so if I were an oil company, I wouldn't be waiting until they run out before I persue the innovations.  Also, they don't necessarily apply outside of the U.S. do they?  The possibility of another nation leap-frogging me on a new technology idea would be a major incentive to me.  In fact, I heard a piece of a story last week on the radio about Iceland taking the lead in researching clean hydrogen power.  If I am Exxon, I don't sit on my butt right now, regardless of my earnings...or my patents.

 

SFF

 

And that will likely cause pressure, and eventually push them along. But they won't be in a hurry until they need to be.

[SpringfieldFan]

And that will likely cause pressure, and eventually push them along.  But they won't be in a hurry until they need to be.

 

My curiosity got the better of me so I did a little research into the Iceland story. Interestingly, Iceland's hydrogen program is a venture backed by Icelandic New Energy, DaimlerChrysler, Norsk Hydro and Royal Dutch Shell, of which our familiar "Shell Oil" is a subsidiary. Yep, that big yellow and red shell sign is right now sitting in front of a fuel station that last year was the first station to successfully power a bus with hydrogen fuel in Iceland. Yep, Shell was involved - that big oil company. To really throw us for a loop, "big auto" (Chrysler) is also involved.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techinno...o-station_x.htm

 

I don't mean to argue or be a big-oil apologist, God knows they ain't perfect either. I just thought this story was reason for optimism, regardless of which end of the spectrum you fall under. In any case, it also shows how complicated all this stuff is. Hopefully these efforts are merely the beginning .

 

SFF

[kapkomet]

I didn't mention the auto manufacturers, but they hold the rest of them.

[JUGGERNAUT]

Oddly enough this is one area where the global economy benefits the world. No where was this more prevalent that recent Ethanol sales. While the USA plays tag with OPEC, Ven, & other oil producing nations the rest of the world said F this s***. We'll move to Ethanol. Just like that Brazil signed a mulit-billion deal to supply Ethanol to Taiwan. That was just one of the many deals.

 

As for the USA well Ethanol has been downplayed because American's like to drive big cars & don't like to drive 55 so it burns to quickly. Needless to say American farmers were not happy about the missed opportunities. I believe some policy changes are in the works with respect to future Ethanol production in the US.

[kapkomet]

Oddly enough this is one area where the global economy benefits the world.  No where was this more prevalent that recent Ethanol sales.  While the USA plays tag with OPEC, Ven, & other oil producing nations the rest of the world said F this s***. We'll move to Ethanol.  Just like that Brazil signed a mulit-billion deal to supply Ethanol to Taiwan.  That was just one of the many deals.

 

As for the USA well Ethanol has been downplayed because American's like to drive big cars & don't like to drive 55 so it burns to quickly.  Needless to say American farmers were not happy about the missed opportunities.  I believe some policy changes are in the works with respect to future Ethanol production in the US.

I think so too. There's a big ethanol plant going in right where my parents live in Indiana. Well, far enough away that they shouldn't have any issues ... but 4 miles away I think it is. It's supposed to be a pretty big $$ maker down the road for the city/county.

[Mplssoxfan]

I think so too.  There's a big ethanol plant going in right where my parents live in Indiana.  Well, far enough away that they shouldn't have any issues ... but 4 miles away I think it is.  It's supposed to be a pretty big $$ maker down the road for the city/county.

The problem with ethanol plants as they are now construed is, as I understand it, that the energy input (electricity or natural gas, IIRC) exceeds the energy output of the ethanol, so in some sene, we're really not solving anything.

 

I could be wrong. If so, please enlighten me.

[Balta1701]

The problem with ethanol plants as they are now construed is, as I understand it, that the energy input (electricity or natural gas, IIRC) exceeds the energy output of the ethanol, so in some sene, we're really not solving anything.

 

I could be wrong.  If so, please enlighten me.

There are ways to make ethanol as a fuel that give significantly positive outputs of energy. Making ethanol from corn, including other things that the corn makes (i.e. animal feed) gives you a slightly positive output of energy. You can get higher energy outputs by making the ethanol out of different products...things where you use a larger part of the plant to produce the stuff.

 

Link

[Heads22]

Anyone here use ethanol regularly? It's all we use in our cars at home.

[Balta1701]

Anyone here use ethanol regularly? It's all we use in our cars at home.

Most fuels around here contain some percentage of ethanol.

[Heads22]

Most fuels around here contain some percentage of ethanol.

 

 

Here there's regular, plus (with ethanol) and premium. In all my time when I worked in a gas station (like 5-6 months) I think maybe 5 people bought premium.

[Balta1701]

Here there's regular, plus (with ethanol) and premium. In all my time when I worked in a gas station (like 5-6 months) I think maybe 5 people baught premium.

You know...now that I think about it...since my only form of transportation is a bicycle...I guess some finite percentage of the fuel I use is ethanol too. Anywho...it's social hour here, so I'm going to go refuel.

[Balta1701]

One of Exxon's execs told us today that the U.S. should stop trying to work towards energy independence, because it's both a bad idea and impossible. Thank God we have these non-partial observers to give us this sage advice. Reuters.

[samclemens]

They could also put enough money into alternative energy research that we'd very quickly be able to implement non-oil energy generation in lots of aspects of our infrastructure.

 

If one of those companies gets smart, they'll plow back a bunch of those earnings and do just that.  Why?  Because they'd ensure that they'd not only be first and best in those areas, but they'd guarantee their long term future in the energy markets beyond just oil.  It's smart for so many reasons.  Which is why I can't understand why they don't do more of it.

 

i like your ideas, but i also cynically must call it wishful thinking. i bet the US will drive SUV's until the earth runs out of oil. the automotive and petroleum companies are much too powerful and would never embrace that.

 

seriously though, when the President makes a huge point about it in the state of union adress, and hes an oil man, you know that something has to be done, since they are even admitting the problem (rare).