Balance Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 (edited) I recently heard of a conservative radio show host who was presented with the following thought experiment. I'd like to know what all of you would do in this situation: You are in a fertility clinic. In one room of the clinic, there is a two-year-old human child. In another room of the clinic, there is a petri dish containing ten human blastulas. Let's say that the blastulas have been frozen in the petri dish a few seconds after sperm and egg united. All of the blastulas, if implanted into a woman's uterus, would be able to grow into normal, healthy children. The fertility clinic catches fire. You are the only adult in the clinic; no one is there who could help you. You only have time to save the two-year-old child or the petri dish with the ten blastulas, not both, before the fertility clinic is completely engulfed in flames. Which do you save, the two-year-old or the petri dish, and why? EDIT- Let's also assume that the two-year-old is anesthetized. She wouldn't feel any pain or suffering in the fire. Edited March 9, 2006 by Balance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach61 Posted March 9, 2006 Share Posted March 9, 2006 QUOTE(Balance @ Mar 9, 2006 -> 04:42 PM) I recently heard of a conservative radio show host who was presented with the following thought experiment. I'd like to know what all of you would do in this situation: You are in a fertility clinic. In one room of the clinic, there is a two-year-old human child. In another room of the clinic, there is a petri dish containing ten human blastulas. Let's say that the blastulas have been frozen in the petri dish a few seconds after sperm and egg united. All of the blastulas, if implanted into a woman's uterus, would be able to grow into normal, healthy children. The fertility clinic catches fire. You are the only adult in the clinic; no one is there who could help you. You only have time to save the two-year-old child or the petri dish with the ten blastulas, not both, before the fertility clinic is completely engulfed in flames. Which do you save, the two-year-old or the petri dish, and why? EDIT- Let's also assume that the two-year-old is anesthetized. She wouldn't feel any pain or suffering in the fire. Why is the 2 yr old in a room all by itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrimsonWeltall Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 2 year old with no hesitation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mplssoxfan Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 QUOTE(zach61 @ Mar 9, 2006 -> 05:52 PM) Why is the 2 yr old in a room all by itself? Details. I'd save the child, no question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 The 2 year old, without a second glance at the petri dish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Controlled Chaos Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Two year old human child?? As opposed to all the alien 2 year olds running around?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kapkomet Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Of course you all know where this was going, right? Now you're discriminating against one form of life versus another. And, furthermore, why are you all b****ing about abortion if you don't even bat an eye about the petri dish that has life right before your eyes? I'd still save the two year old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 QUOTE(kapkomet @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 09:35 AM) Of course you all know where this was going, right? Now you're discriminating against one form of life versus another. And, furthermore, why are you all b****ing about abortion if you don't even bat an eye about the petri dish that has life right before your eyes? I'd still save the two year old. That's exactly why I didn't dignify this question with an answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balance Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 So far, not as much controversy as I might have expected. Nobody has taken the "life begins at conception" position yet. I guess, since Juggs isn't sround anymore, that's not going to happen. I think it illustrates that there is a significant difference between a baby that has been born and reproductive cells that have just gotten together. Which, of course, was my not-veiled-at-all point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach61 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 QUOTE(Mplssoxfan @ Mar 9, 2006 -> 11:31 PM) Details. I'd save the child, no question. An important detail though. What if the 2 yr old is already dead? It doesn't mention that the 2 yr old human is alive, but it does mention that the blastulas are frozen and "would" be able to grow into normal children. If I already know that about the blastulas, that means that someone must have already given me that information or I wouldn't know that. I would also have been told then if that 2 yr old human baby was dead or alive and what it was doing there and why it was left alone in a fertility clinic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 (edited) Why wouldnt you just have the two year old hold the petri dish and then take the two year old? That way, you're saving one and he's saving the other. Edited March 10, 2006 by Rex Kickass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wong & Owens Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 QUOTE(Rex Kickass @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 12:34 PM) Why wouldnt you just have the two year old hold the petri dish and then take the two year old? That way, you're saving one and he's saving the other. I still wouldn't bother with the dish, honestly. If it's a real fire, I'm grabbing the kid and getting the hell out of there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Kickass Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Excuse me but youre getting in the way of me having AND eating cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Neither...first sight of fire my ass is outta there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mplssoxfan Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 (edited) QUOTE(zach61 @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 11:30 AM) An important detail though. What if the 2 yr old is already dead? It doesn't mention that the 2 yr old human is alive, but it does mention that the blastulas are frozen and "would" be able to grow into normal children. If I already know that about the blastulas, that means that someone must have already given me that information or I wouldn't know that. I would also have been told then if that 2 yr old human baby was dead or alive and what it was doing there and why it was left alone in a fertility clinic. I believe that question is answered by the premise of the hypothetical. I'll paraphrase, "you have a chance to save the two year old..." Edited March 10, 2006 by Mplssoxfan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach61 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 QUOTE(Mplssoxfan @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 11:55 AM) I believe that question is answered by the premise of the hypothetical. I'll paraphrase, "you have a chance to save the two year old..." But it doesn't say to save the life of the 2 yr old, just the 2 yr old. And again, why is the 2 yr old in there alone? I need more info to answer the question and I need to know whether or not the 2 yr old is alive and I'm actually saving the life or if it's dead and I'm just saving the body. I don't just hang around empty fertility clinics, so there is not enough info about the situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 This thread is giving me a headache. Take that as you will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 QUOTE(zach61 @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 12:01 PM) But it doesn't say to save the life of the 2 yr old, just the 2 yr old. And again, why is the 2 yr old in there alone? I need more info to answer the question and I need to know whether or not the 2 yr old is alive and I'm actually saving the life or if it's dead and I'm just saving the body. I don't just hang around empty fertility clinics, so there is not enough info about the situation. I think it would be safe to say that the intent of the question would be the assumption that the 2 year old would be alive ... and it's mother had to go to the bathroom or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach61 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 QUOTE(YASNY @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 12:03 PM) I think it would be safe to say that the intent of the question would be the assumption that the 2 year old would be alive ... and it's mother had to go to the bathroom or something. So then the mother would have saved the 2 yr old. I don't know of any mother that leaves their 2 yr old alone in a room and then runs out of a building, even if it's on fire, and leaves their baby. I really need to know why that 2 yr old was left alone in order to make a decision on which to save? I can only assume the 2 yr old is dead already if it's left alone in an empty clinic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 QUOTE(zach61 @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 12:07 PM) So then the mother would have saved the 2 yr old. I don't know of any mother that leaves their 2 yr old alone in a room and then runs out of a building, even if it's on fire, and leaves their baby. I really need to know why that 2 yr old was left alone in order to make a decision on which to save? I can only assume the 2 yr old is dead already if it's left alone in an empty clinic. You are not allowing for the 'spirit' of the question. We can argue about the various scenarios and sets of circumstances, but when it comes down to it you are in a hall and know there is a 2 year old kid in one room and a petri dish in the other, which would you save? It's not that difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlaSoxxJim Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Two year old. My 2 cents: First off, I don't like abortions and I'm very thankful for the many people in the sutuation that "choose life", but I think they should be legally accessible at least through the first trimester. There is no reality basis to a "life begins at conception" assertion, because in fact the two haploid gametes that fuse at fertilization are also very much alive. Conception is one event in reproductive biology. There are still major bottlenecks to get past after fertilization, and in fact more than 50% of fertilzation events end in spontaneous termination rather than implantation and embryonic development. For the "life begins at conception" crowd that does indeed meen that God/Nature/Providence (depending on your viewpoint) is the biggest baby killer of all and has the abortion clinics of the world beat hands-down. People that harp about it being "God's will" that no abortions take place and you can't interfere with God's will, but then go to a fertility clinic and take extraordinary measures to have a baby (implanting 10 embryos etc.) are in point of fact ignoring God's apparent will that they not have kids since they couldn't do it naturally. That is not to say a couple desparetely wanting a baby should not use the fertility clinic, they just need to stfu about God's will since they are actively subverting it for their own self interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zach61 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 QUOTE(YASNY @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 12:12 PM) You are not allowing for the 'spirit' of the question. We can argue about the various scenarios and sets of circumstances, but when it comes down to it you are in a hall and know there is a 2 year old kid in one room and a petri dish in the other, which would you save? It's not that difficult. There is a problem here above which I would choose to save. If I was in an empty clinic, there would be a specific reason I was there. I don't just wander around empty buildings. I would know why the 2 yr old was in that room and if it was alive or not. If it was alive, I would already have either removed the 2 yr old, or would be calling somebody about an abandoned child. The 2 yr old would already be in my arms before the fire started. I would then only have 1 choice to make and that would be to grab the petri dish. The real problem here is not which I would save, but why the 2 yr old is alone in a room in an empty clinic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 I love how much people are struggling to avoid actually having to take on the issue which is trying to be discussed by the hypothetical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balance Posted March 10, 2006 Author Share Posted March 10, 2006 Zach- The 2-year-old is alive. It doesn't matter why she's there. This is a thought experiment. If you don't want to participate, then don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 QUOTE(Balance @ Mar 10, 2006 -> 12:29 PM) Zach- The 2-year-old is alive. It doesn't matter why she's there. This is a thought experiment. If you don't want to participate, then don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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